Can an emotionally abusive husband change?

[BreadGenius]

I've finally come to the end of the road with my emotionally abusive husband and told him so last night, after yet another weekend of sulking, shouting and relentless negativity (him, not me). Today he's 'promising to change'. I'm having a hard time believing in this forthcoming change given that we've been married for twenty years and he's made this promise every few months with depressing regularity.

I've been persuaded to 'give him one more chance', and I will really try, but am I being stupid? Has any abusive man ever changed his behaviour for more than a few months? I used to think that he was a decent man really, because the abusive episodes were often weeks or even months apart. However, having read Lundy Bancroft's 'Why Does He Do That', I've realised that he's simply following the 'abuser's script' and reeling me back in with his decent behaviour after yet another of his angry outbursts/sending me to Coventry fits.

I've tried so hard to help him - getting him appointments with two different counsellors over the years, and yet they all seem to validate his opinion of himself i.e. that he's a lovely man and that I should be grateful that he works so hard to earn a living for us all. Or at least that's what he claims they tell him. Obviously, I don't know if it's true or not and if he's telling them the truth. I suspect he's not being honest with them because he is an inveterate liar and will never admit to it, even when he tells the most obvious lies to me or the kids.

Any advice, hopeful or not?

@Jonny1265 What sort of therapy do you offer? I’d love him to change through therapy so that we could be happy like I thought we were at the beginning, although maybe that was also a delusion, albeit on my part?

@Jonny1265

I am a therapist with abusive men and they can change but it take real investment on their part and over a significant period of time. It also works better when the relationship has ended and offering second chances hinders the process. As with most behavioural change processes, there needs to be motivation to do so and there is no motivation if the person continues to be let off their poor behaviour. So my advice is he is not going to change whilst he is still with you.

Agree with this - I think they can change IF they can be motivated enough to work through defences and learn heathier ways of relating to others. BUT it’s easier with a new partner if anything as the abusive dynamic between 2 people is so entrenched, far easier with a ‘clean slate’.

No, they don't change because fundamentally they don't think they are doing anything wrong.

Perhaps I should leave him and let him find a new partner with whom he could work on becoming non abusive then, although I doubt he would want to do the work. I’m no longer in love with him as he really is, but I’m still in love with what I guess is the fictional him, the man he seems to be when he’s in one of his calm and kind phases. He always promises that he’ll stay like that, but he never does and I know that I have to face up to the fact that he never will, but it’s hard.

If he was invested in your happiness, he'd insist on time apart from you until he was 100% sure he'd dealt with his issues.

[quote PrettyVacancy]@Jonny1265 What sort of therapy do you offer? I’d love him to change through therapy so that we could be happy like I thought we were at the beginning, although maybe that was also a delusion, albeit on my part?[/quote]
I work across a range of modalities from CBT, CAT, psychodynamic psychotherapy to some more unconventional methods to as @judyjemstone wrote, break down defences. It all takes time and from experience, it doesn't work whilst in a dysfunctional relationship so yes, I'm afraid it is a delusional on your part. I have known couple get back together but only after a few years apart and much work in between.

I was with my STBXH for 19 years and the sulking just got worse

When he started to do it to DS I made a few ‘allowances’ but it dawned on me that it was just going to get worse.

I left 3 years ago and I don’t regret it,

I began to see him for the manipulative person he was and although there are days when I crave intimacy I’m so much freer in my head without having to walk on eggshells

You are teaching your daughters to accept this kind of behaviour- get out before they lose respect for you and stop talking to you for being an enabler

One of the most powerful things I was told by women’s aid was: “You have the right to leave your marriage.”

Sounds so simple but I had not believed it prior.

I think a small few can but that would rarely be with the same woman.

These bloody people, be they man or woman, who think they can behave like a pig at home to their families, but strangely not to the people they work with or to the neighbours/friends/relatives.. know exactly what they are doing because they know they would not get away with it anywhere else.

So, no he will not change because if he really loved and respected you he wouldn't be doing it in the first place.
Lying to the counsellor to create a narrative that blames you is a disgusting thing to do and the counselling sessions are simply an ego trip for him.

Think of it this way.

The 43rd time you gave him a second chance, it made no difference. And you are wondering if the 44th time will be different.

OP I am on a similar situation. I feel close to leaving but not quite there. I don't believe he will change. He is nasty on an almost daily basis then acts like nothing has happened and then I am the one who is negative for being upset about it. I feel worn down by it. I don't have any advice but I think I understand

Like you my dh has followed me through the house to continue the rant and I've had to stand in a dark room behind the door so he couldn't find me and would go away. I can't believe I had to do that it sounds so awful.

Generally he's much better but that's because

1. he now lives in separate self contained accommodation on the property and
2. immediately he raises his voice, sneers etc, I look him in the eye and calmly and confidently say 'please don't sneer at me' and if he says anything apart from 'ok sorry' (which does happens but is rare) I walk away, which means that,
3. I never engage in an argument.

Apart from the benefits to my peace of mind, learning not to engage with his abuse meant I could see his behaviour clearly so that I didn't have that nagging doubt 'did I contribute or cause that argument?' And I don't hang on to it.

So to answer your question 'do they change?' mine has mellowed but only because of the physical and emotional distance. Fundamentally I don't think he's changed. He still doesn't think he has a problem. My naming his abuse is for my benefit and self esteem. I don't think he's actually hearing what I'm saying. I think he thinks I'm still just being difficult, unreasonable, unfair, over sensitive. Last time we briefly spoke about our new set up he said 'well you know you're as much to blame for our disagreements'.

You've had 20 years of his abuse, and each time he's promised to change he hasn't. So, statistically, what do you think the chances are of him changing?

In all those 20 years, when he's made that promise, what efforts has he made to change? Has he had lots of counselling? Read books and listened to speakers on the subject? Apologised when he's failed?

Or has he made a promise then carried on abusing you immediately, or at least very soon after?

Why would it be any different this time? He's shown you he can't, or won't change. He won't break the cycle. But you can. Leave him. He doesn't deserve another chance. And let's face it, even if he miraculously changed now, could you really forgive the previous 20 years of abuse? Do you love him the same as you used to? I would imagine that after 20 years the damage is all done.

If he's insistent that he can change, and you want to give him the chance to, then you can show that to you after you've split up. He can get lots of therapy and change his ways, and if he's a completely new man in 2 or 3 years time, you might want to take him back. (I say that safe in the knowledge he won't want to put the effort in, or to change).

You desesrve better than his abuse and the lies he tells you to keep you in your box.

that should have been He can show that to you ....

Thanks everyone. I’m still reading all your replies and feeling sad that I’ve got to face up to the end of my relationship, knowing how hard I’ll find it. When he’s at his most abusive I could leave with far less sadness, well with relief really, but I know he’ll turn on the charm and false promises the minute I tell him I’ve had enough. Then I’ll feel a mixture of guilt and pity for him, because he’ll go through his ‘undying love routine’ and I’ll also keep wondering if he still could change and become non abusive.

I know he’s never going to change and yet I long for him to. I can’t see why he wants to abuse me. I can’t see what I do that makes him so angry, so I can’t stop doing it, whatever ‘it’ is. He didn’t have the best childhood, but neither did I and yet my experience made me determined not to repeat it, whilst he seems happy to replicate his. Sorry for rambling and thanks to those who are reading. I’m confused how to proceed, but I am taking on board all your advice and thanks for the good wishes too. I return them to those of you in the same situation.

The dont "just" change. Change is only possible if they deal with the underlying issues that lead to the behaviour in the first place, learn to recognize their triggers and reprogram themselves to react differently. Really hard work and, as a pp says, virtually impossible to do within an existing relationship (either because the pattern is set or because they're too comfy to try).

I can’t see what I do that makes him so angry, so I can’t stop doing it, whatever ‘it’ is

There's nothing to see. He's angry already, before you show up, on any occasion. Think about it: if you wanted to be angry at somebody, you could always find a reason, if you wanted to. Leaving a light on or not shutting a door or shutting it too hard or getting up at the wrong time or talking too much or too little. If you don't need it to make sense (and clearly he doesn't, otherwise it would make sense to you), you can come up with any old rubbish, or just give no reason at all.

He's making it up, in order that he can abuse you. He's making up the 'nice guy' too, in order that you stay. It's not that his 'real self' is the nice guy, and sometimes he goes into a bad mood. It's the other way round. He's abusive, and he puts on 'the nice guy' as part of the abuse. The real him, if he really was a nice guy, would realise that he's having difficulty changing, and stay away from you for a while, in order not to risk abusing you again. He'd be getting counselling, he'd be buying books and going to groups to try to facilitate his own change.

But he's not doing those things. He's wheedling at you, with empty words. Once I got out, the nice side was the worst side. So sickeningly manipulative.

As for "how to proceed" how about by starting to make a plan to leave? Where would you live, what would you have to live on? Do you have money on hand for legal fees ? Savings? Practical sort of stuff.

Quite simply the only way an emotionally abusive husband can change is into an emotionally abusive ex husband

"When he’s at his most abusive I could leave with far less sadness, well with relief really, but I know he’ll turn on the charm and false promises the minute I tell him I’ve had enough. Then I’ll feel a mixture of guilt and pity for him, because he’ll go through his ‘undying love routine’ and I’ll also keep wondering if he still could change and become non abusive."

You are also stuck on the merry go around and you really do need to get off it.

If your own childhood was not the greatest either, it may well be that you are repeating that same dynamic here with your H. Were you trying to seek approval from difficult and or otherwise emotionally unavailable parents; such was an impossibility to achieve. You were probably hoping that you could find some answer to make them change, say sorry or become non abusive themselves. It never happened did it; they did not change nor did they apologise or ever accept responsibility for their actions. You never caused that to arise re your parents and present day this is all on your H now. Such men too hate women, ALL of them.

He does this because he can and you let him. Your own childhood was not ideal and that primed you into tacitly accepting same from him now; you were targeted and deliberately so by him because he sensed that. He also feels absolutely entitled to behave as he does and feels no remorse or guilt for you.

You can only help your own self ultimately and I think that therapy for your own self re your childhood could help you no end. I sincerely hope you do go onto have a better life without him in it because he will continue to drag you down with him.

OP I went through all this with my DH. The wondering why he was behaving like that. What could I do differently. Sadly I had been through similar with my own mother so I wonder whether that's why I didn't realise it was abuse before we married. I now know he will be angry whatever I do. Sometimes nothing has happened and he comes and seeks me out to attack me. Mildly, just commenting on my parenting or that I haven't kept the house clean and tidy enough (we both work full time so it's not just my responsibility) or yesterday we were talking about a work situation. I cannot describe it any other way but to say he turned on me and started being rude to me. Would not accept it when I said he was being rude.

I find it helpful seeing it from another's perspective and hope I can help by sharing my experiences:

When I say went through I mean I'm still in the thick of it and thinking about leaving.

One thing I notice is that he can behave very badly, be rude, shout, even break things but then calms down and acts like it didn't happen. If I say something about it he says we were both at fault or he was responding to something I did. If I upset him (even if only by telling him I'm not happy) he stays angry about it.

He doesn't seem to see any of this. Do they really not see? He's an intelligent person. Does he not see how he behaves completely unreasonably? If he does see it, how can he expect me not to?

He didn’t have the best childhood

Meanwhile back at the ranch….. are your children having the best childhood then? Living with the man who rants at their mother all through the house. The pair of you are supposed to be modelling good relationships and I’m afraid 50% good and 50% shit isn’t a pass mark on the “good childhood scale” You are altogether directing your energy pointlessly at the wrong person.

I’m sorry you’re experiencing the same horrible things too Chocomelon. It’s exhausting and stressful and I’m beginning to feel angry again which, of course, he’s now seized on as the ‘problem’ and the reason why he’s abusive towards me. He refuses to accept that I’m angry because he’s abusing me, not the other way round. I think I hate him today.

I’m devouring the Lundy Bancroft book on my Kindle and it’s like reading about my own life. It’s all just a pre written script isn’t it? The entitled abuser doesn’t even need me to start him reading from the script, it could be any woman. It is always a woman for him, never a man, because he’d risk getting punched if he started doing this to a man.

He’s just stomped off to his home office, shouting and muttering because I told him I’ve got a new LB book. I’ve bought three of the ‘Why Does He Do That’ books, because they all ‘go missing’. I don’t know if he hides them or throws them in the bin, but how can three copies have gone missing when I’m not a disorganised idiot?