DH is being horrible to me

[LadyFyck]

I think.

Recently we had a minor disagreement over a "joke." I was on a stepladder at the top of the stairs painting the top of the wall and he did that thing where you grab someone, jolt them toward a massive drop so their adrenaline goes mad and say "saved your life" or something. So he jolted me toward the stairs, while I was already standing on a ladder and I had no idea he was even there. I had headphones on listening to music and it was absolutely terrifying!! I shouted "what the fuck are you doing you fucking idiot!?"

And he has been sulking and ice cold to me since then. It was on Saturday. He has literally not touched me or shared more than a couple of sentences with me since then. He knows 100% that withdrawing affection is something I consider to be horribly hurtful and abusive and I have, in this time, expressed to him that I feel very unloved and sad. He has done absolutely nothing to make me feel better, nor has he apologised for frightening me, but he expects me to apologise for shouting at him when I literally was terrified. He says I should trust that he would never hurt me or put me in danger and I said I am not apologising for a reaction when I was frightened, perhaps he should apologise for doing something so dangerous! He maintains it wasn't dangerous because he was in control the whole time and I made him feel humiliated by what I said and how I reacted.

He's making me feel absolutely worthless and he's never normally like this. He has got form for sulking like a fucking teenager every so often but not like this. I am so miserable. I told him this and said that I feel like he's doing this now to discourage me from ever sticking up for myself because this will be the result, and he said that's a disgusting thing for me to say!

He says I should trust that he would never hurt me

But he is hurting you now, not physically but emotionally.

How long have you been together? The concern here is that he believes in punishing you. Usually this escalates, so first incident, sulk of a few hours, then a day, and then days. He will feel justified in his response as he has lost empathy for you. His feelings are more important than yours.

If you came from a similar upbringing you may have subconsciously married a man who was familiar but not in a healthy way.

What you can take from this incident is that he isn't prepared to hear you or validate your feelings because his emotions dominate. His reaction is learned and often can't be changed because his brain has been wired to react. If he doesn't take any responsibility (and unilaterally decides to stop sulking) then this will just escalate.

Is his mum & Dad still married?

Please ignore anyone who tells you you're immature for being upset by someone abusing you. You're not. You're reacting to abuse in the way you've been taught to from a very young age.

How lucky for those people to have never been faced with the sort of abuse that utterly destroys your self esteem in such an insidious way. You can't just shrug it off because they make you feel like you're utterly worthless, you're not even worth the effort of talking to. You feel lower than a worm. I sometimes think it would have been easier if my parent and later my ex would just hit me because then at least i would have a name to put to what they were doing. They used to talk to other people just fine. Then when we were back on our own it was back to the silent treatment.

It's not your fault you were abused and it's not your fault if you're reacting to this in a different way than a person who has not been abused would react. But you don't have to live life like this, you honestly don't. Is there anyone in RL you can talk to about what he's doing?

I would ignore him right back. Literally wouldn't even acknowledge his existence. See how he likes it.
Hes punishing you for having a natural reaction. Basically trying to train you to hide your emotions so it doesn't hurt his precious feelings, because he believes everything he does is right and apparently hillarious, and you're feelings don't matter.

@Fireflygal

He says I should trust that he would never hurt me

But he is hurting you now, not physically but emotionally.

How long have you been together? The concern here is that he believes in punishing you. Usually this escalates, so first incident, sulk of a few hours, then a day, and then days. He will feel justified in his response as he has lost empathy for you. His feelings are more important than yours.

If you came from a similar upbringing you may have subconsciously married a man who was familiar but not in a healthy way.

What you can take from this incident is that he isn't prepared to hear you or validate your feelings because his emotions dominate. His reaction is learned and often can't be changed because his brain has been wired to react. If he doesn't take any responsibility (and unilaterally decides to stop sulking) then this will just escalate.

Is his mum & Dad still married?

Yes they're still married and his mum totally normalises his dad's cold shouldering the second something doesn't go his way. His dad is something else. He will ignore someone for weeks at a time if they didn't agree with something he said. Even children. DH has been upset so many times by his dad belittling him and stonewalling him, and his mum would always be like "ask him for his advice or opinion on something so he feels he's important and stops sulking" but in recent years he's told his mum he's not catering to it at all. And he doesn't. He won't try and placate him at all and he said he refuses to be bullied with silence, which is why it's so shocking and upsetting to me that he's doing this now. He definitely sulks, he never has been shown another way by a male role model. He tries hard not to but it's the default for him.

He knows I can't cope with being blanked. But I'm taking a leaf out of his book today and refusing to be controlled with silence or cold interactions. I was making a cake this morning, singing along to Queen, and he came in with a glass and stood wordlessly by the sink which was filling for the washing up. After a few moments of me not asking him what he needed, he said "is this hot water going to be on long?" I just turned it off without stopping singing and continued with what I was doing. He did look slightly stunned and now he's gone back to bed (night shift). I doubt that will be enough but I hope he wakes up on a different side of the bed and apologises. Because he's been a twat.

Oh, and we have been together ten years. This is not a regular occurrence at all. He probably sulks too regularly but he doesn't typically ignore me. He doesn't cope well with feeling ashamed and I think it's because his dad has a special enjoyment for taking the wind out of DH's sails and always has. But he isn't allowed to be this way toward me: it's not fair

It does not have to be regular for it to be abusive behaviour towards you all the same. His sulking behaviour as well is an example of emotional abuse.

You need to ask yourself why you are with such a man who does this at all; you were perhaps conditioned into thinking by parents to think this is how people do behave in relationships. Your H is basically a carbon copy of his own father; a man who is also an abuser. These types of men hate women and ALL of them.

You have children. What are they learning about relationships from you both here?. Would you want this sort of relationship for them as adults; no you would not and you would want better for them. Currently at least however, you are showing them this treatment of you (and in turn them) is still acceptable to you on some level.

@Ramalamadingdongs

Please ignore anyone who tells you you're immature for being upset by someone abusing you. You're not. You're reacting to abuse in the way you've been taught to from a very young age.

How lucky for those people to have never been faced with the sort of abuse that utterly destroys your self esteem in such an insidious way. You can't just shrug it off because they make you feel like you're utterly worthless, you're not even worth the effort of talking to. You feel lower than a worm. I sometimes think it would have been easier if my parent and later my ex would just hit me because then at least i would have a name to put to what they were doing. They used to talk to other people just fine. Then when we were back on our own it was back to the silent treatment.

It's not your fault you were abused and it's not your fault if you're reacting to this in a different way than a person who has not been abused would react. But you don't have to live life like this, you honestly don't. Is there anyone in RL you can talk to about what he's doing?

Thank you. If this ignoring me were a regular thing, I wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with him. My sanity wouldn't take it. It's only because he is not like this that I am even here going through my feelings on it rather than sorting out divorce paperwork. He sulks. He mopes. He is the type to do deep sighing and make dramatic ridiculous statements when upset. Like "nothing ever works out for me" when there were no diesel pumps working at the petrol station and he didn't have enough fuel to get to an appointment and back. Or going moody when he's had interactions with a particularly spiteful person at work. All huff and sigh. That's how he deals with negative emotions normally, by moping and sulking. But he is normally quick to move past it.

He knows how abusive this treatment is, he was subjected to it his entire childhood by his dad and continues to be. He knows how it was for me too and knows how it makes me feel. When you have that kind of abuse in your formative years you don't just forget how it made you feel. They're core memories and repetitions are triggers.

Have you ever told him he's behaving exactly like his dad?

I don't think I've mentioned children, have I?

I meant have you ever told your DH that he's behaving exactly like his father

@watchkeys your post has made so much sense to me and given me a jolt of recognition about my feelings and this isn't even my thread! Very wise words.

The reason you feel that you are worthless to him is, I'm sorry to say, because you are. A man who valued and cared for you would not scare you like that. And if he did scare you by mistake, would be mortified and apologetic and would promise, instantly, never to do it again.

YOUR feelings, your emotions are not important to him. He is angry because you dared to cross him. You say that he is lovely, but I bet you don't normally tell him when he's wrong, but rather accommodate him? This one time, in your shock, you were completely and totally and immediately upfront about how upset you were and he is punishing you. He's also doing this to be certain that you will never ever again risk doing anything that puts you in this position again.

@Watchkeys
*Our feelings aren't under our control. Otherwise nobody would ever feels sad, would they, because everybody would choose to feel good all the time. We are not responsible for our feelings. We are responsible for the actions that result from our feelings. We are responsible for avoiding situations and people who give us bad feelings. Humans are societal animals. Humans choose individuals to 'let in' to their emotional space. Once that's done (and yes, that's a choice at a deeper level) it needs to be undone and we need recovery time, before those individuals' actions do not affect our emotional state.

It's far too basic to say that 'No-one can make you feel anything'. What kind of world do you live in? One where being told 'I love you' or being given a thoughtful gift doesn't make you feel happy? One where, if your beloved mother was to say 'Fuck off, I've never loved you', you'd simply choose not to mind?

OP's husband has done something dangerous and it's made her feel bad in a variety of ways. That's perfectly valid. If she wants his actions not to affect her emotions, she can't just stop. She'd need to divorce him, move away from him, and fully emotionally detach.

The 'Well she made me angry' example is not valid, because feeling angry isn't a problem. It could easily be followed with 'So I sat down with her, made us both a cup of tea, and we talked it all out so that we're both much happier' Anger is healthy. It's demonstrated unhealthily, sometimes, and that's what you're talking about. Same with 'your words made him shut down'; his feeling is valid. His response to it is what he is responsible for. 'Responsible'/response. Response-able. Able to respond appropriately. Even to difficult emotions. That's what 'responsible' means.

All emotions are valid. They are signposts that indicate to us where the healthiest situations for us, as individuals, are. To suggest that you can control how people make you feel is invalidating, on such a simple level. You can't. You can only be 'response-able', recognise the pattern, and stay away from people who make you feel things you don't want to feel.*

Spot on. No psychologist has ever said to me or my DC you are wrong to feel that way. H would sprout that BS and in fact does, telling me my emotions aren't ok. In fact after speaking with my current psychologist about some of H behaviour she flat out told me this, emotions are always valid, that I don't have to apologise or feel wrong for whatever emotion I'm feeling. You're responsible for your actions, not your emotions. It's ok to feel angry, or scared or to be negatively effected by your OH lack of care. It's not ok to use those emotions as an excuse to hurt someone physically or mentally.

@Susu49

I meant have you ever told your DH that he's behaving exactly like his father

Today I have! I know it's hard to portray an entire relationship in one post but we are not in crisis or miserable and he's not horrible at all, this has been a shock to me. We have been together for a decade. I told him I think he's acting like his dad to discourage me from ever making him feel ashamed of himself again. But as I pointed out, he felt ashamed because he knew he had terrified me and my reaction shocked him into realising I had no idea of what "control" he did or didn't have and it was cruel, not funny. Maybe he did think it would be a funny "tiktok" type prank and my terror also frightened him but it's not ok to punish me like his dad does when someone doesn't accept a situation the way he wants it framed.

He said that obviously he's sorry. I said that's not obvious at all, you've ignored me for the best part of a week, even when I told you I was desperately unhappy with that. He said that he didn't know what to do, he felt humiliated and angry about that. I told him I don't think it's acceptable to have taken that out on me for daring to react in fear. He got upset and said it sounds like I'm saying he's an abuser who wanted to frighten me and I said that I'm not but I am saying that his behaviour this week in retaliation for a reaction he didn't expect has been abusive and I don't want that

Brilliant op! So pleased you've stood up to him and laid it out like that.

He needs to understand that behaviour which makes you feel that way is unacceptable, regardless of the intent. And feeling guilty (good sign) is not an excuse to get away with it or make you accept it.

This should shake him to his core, that's what a wake up call does. If he then struggles to process it, to understand and make changes to his behaviour then he needs to seek the help of a qualified therapist.

As for you. Don't back down.

He said that he didn't know what to do, he felt humiliated and angry about that.
The really important part is 1. does he now completely accept he was in the wrong and therefore has he apologised for both scaring you and then ignoring you and 2. does he now understand how to handle such a situation in the future?

Because it still sounds to me like he's backing down only because he's realised you won't. But he's only backing down the bare minimum.....

Dh once flicked me with a tea towel in that jokey irritating way teenagers do. It hurt. I was LIVID. he was mortified, apologised, and has never done it again. Not hard.

Not much of an apology, is it, that basically repeats his opinion that you are the one in the wrong? Good that you have had some sort of a discussion at least. But if he can't accept being in the wrong at all, then he needs therapy.
You're criticising his behaviour and he's making out that it's an attack on his character. That may be how it worked in his family, but that is an issue that he needs to work on.

That sounds like a really healthy conversation. Well done.

"He got upset and said it sounds like I'm saying he's an abuser who wanted to frighten me"

Perhaps ask him why he thinks it sounds like that?

You've been really clear that you know he didn't do it out of nastiness, it was an ill thought out prank.

If he thinks it sounds abusive, then maybe he needs to recognise his behaviour at times was abusive.

Abuse doesn't stop being abusive if it's done by a nice guy. I used to teach a child who was so convinced he was 'a good boy' that he struggled to accept he'd done anything wrong.

He got upset and said it sounds like I'm saying he's an abuser who wanted to frighten me

Sounds like you had a good conversation, OP, but I'd be very wary of this attitude in future. You essentially are saying that, and you're right to call him out on it. It's concerning that he's trying to make you 'to blame', as a result of this. Silent treatment is abusive. Deliberately risking someone's safety for a laugh is abusive. Refusing to acknowledge someone's fear of your actions is abusive.

I think I'd be going back to him to make these points. He's taken on some of what you've said, enough to make you feel you've 'had a useful conversation'.

I wonder, though, do you feel, deep down, that he still doesn't quite get it?

Well done for saying your piece op. Hopefully he will take it on board. Don't try and soothe his hurt feelings from you sticking up for yourself.

I'm sorry for you OP. I just cannot imagine living with someone like this. DP would never do something like that to me but if he did by accident or something he'd put his arms around me immediately and apologise. And I'm with you on the silent treatment thing being upsetting. My Mum used to do it to me when I was small and it makes me go crazy to this day. I even get an upset stomach it upsets me so much, it's awful.

I would've been really scared OP. And how he's treated you since is nasty.

@HangingOver

I'm sorry for you OP. I just cannot imagine living with someone like this. DP would never do something like that to me but if he did by accident or something he'd put his arms around me immediately and apologise. And I'm with you on the silent treatment thing being upsetting. My Mum used to do it to me when I was small and it makes me go crazy to this day. I even get an upset stomach it upsets me so much, it's awful.

Me too with the upset stomach thing. Once my dad acted like I didn't exist for about a month during the summer holidays and forced my siblings to do the same. Every day I woke up wondering if someone was going to speak to me today. I was eleven and my crime had been to get upset and ask why when I saw he had stubbed out a cigarette in the clay pot I'd made at school and proudly brought home. He would even do that really nasty thing of "did anyone else hear that annoying sound?" if I came and asked anything. Since we weren't even allowed to get a drink of water without asking first, it was like torture. I remember bursting into sobs of absolute relief when my dad finally deemed I was allowed to be acknowledged and included. DH didn't have the kind of deeply abusive upbringing that I did, so I don't think he understands that it causes anxiety that gets right into your soul to be ignored and dismissed

I just want to send you a (unmumsnetty) hug for your childhood. I'm unravelling some stuff from my own childhood and the thing about your dad blanking you and getting the rest of the family to join in brought a tear to my eye. You poor poor thing. That is such a shit way to treat a child. The damage that is done 😢

Christ @LadyFyck your poor childhood :-(

I feel really sad for 11 year old you - that must have been really deeply upsetting.