Estranged mother in hospital

[fromagreatheight]

Context: I haven't seen my mother since 2016, we haven't spoken on the phone / online since 2017, and have very sporadic email contact.

The reasons for this are too much to go into –suffice to say that it's a range of mental health issues, a history of childhood abuse, and a lot of ongoing paranoid / narcissistic traits.

What feels most important to say is that I love her, I understand WHY she is the way she is, I'm not angry with her, but I can't have her in my life in any meaningful way.

The current situation:

After no response from her to my emails since June last year, she's just emailed my dad and let him know she's been in hospital after falling off the roof of her house. Broken ribs, knocked out all her top teeth, dislocated shoulder, etc, etc... We don't know when this happened but it sounds as though she's home again after a hospital stay.

Next week she has a big operation to install rods in her face to hold in a set of false top teeth. Sounds like a hefty procedure and she's always been terrified of the dentist (to the point where she never took me as a kid because she couldn't bring herself to go). She's alone –she recently moved to a new country and has no family nearby, and doesn't know many people.

A big part of me thinks I should fly out to be with her for the time around this operation (we live in different countries). Another part of me thinks it would be piling one big emotional event on top of another, and might be too much.

I'm also scared of reopening the Pandora's box of our relationship and turning this into the start of expectations that things will be different from now on, which I have very mixed feelings about. I'm in therapy at the moment and working through this topic, but I can't be sure what I want yet in terms of how our relationship is in the future.

I feel huge compassion for her right now –much as she puts on a brash and independent front, she must be scared and lonely – and an urge to be a 'good daughter' and go to her.And I'm also scared of what that might mean.

Any words of advice, or things to think about?

I would not go and see her; what would you hope to achieve from such a visit anyway?. Your mother was once young and abused you and now she is far older and still behaves the same. She has not changed and this is who she is. These types of people do not apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. She treated you abusively and has never shown you any real consideration whatsoever; you were just there to serve her.

You do not owe her anything here, least of all a visit or even a relationship. You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

Christ, that is tough.
If you do go, you need an escape route - hire car/own accommodation.
You need to be aware there will be likely recriminations at some point instead of gratitude.
She will be in fear and pain so not the greatest for addressing elephants in the room.
If you are there out of guilt or obligation then you might end up back where you were pre-therapy.
Finally, you need to know in your head, what happens afterwards, is this closure? Is this the first step to resuming contact?
Will she manipulate you in future with illness or emergency?
What did she want your Dad to do - tell you?
Flying monkeys should be at her bidding, not you.
Finally, what if you reach out and she rejects you...can you handle that?

You feel compassion because you are a compassionate and empathetic person. You also have two qualities that your mother totally lacks; empathy and insight.

Keep talking to your therapist too.

You may also want to look at the Out of the FOG website as well as posting on/reading the current Well we took you to Stately Homes thread on these Relationships pages.

I have been nc with my dm for best part of 20 years.
She isn't part of my life and regardless of her health I will continue to be nc..
If that makes me a bad dd then so be it. My mh is more important to me..

@AttilaTheMeerkat I should have expected you here.

I know a lot of people hold you in high regard around these parts, but I'm always unsettled by how quickly you show up on these kinds of posts with such black and white advice to people in vulnerable and often complex situations.

She's shown me plenty of consideration in as much as she's able to, and I've given you no reason to make such a statement that I was 'just there to serve her'. I don't know if you simply refuse to see the grey areas in these kinds of relationships or you lack the capacity to do so, but I'd suggest you take a careful look at the potential impact of your posts on people who are navigating situations that are subtle, sensitive and complex.

As I thought I made entirely clear in the beginning of my post, I'm not angry with her, I understand why she behaved in the ways she did, and I'm capable of holding both emotional spaces at once.

What I would hope to achieve from such a visit, since you asked, is to give a woman who did the best she could in raising me some support in a vulnerable and scary time, when she has no-one around her. The best she could wasn't good enough, and it's still problematic, but that doesn't mean my own value system and morals go out the window.

@BadHairDayExpert

Christ, that is tough. If you do go, you need an escape route - hire car/own accommodation. You need to be aware there will be likely recriminations at some point instead of gratitude. She will be in fear and pain so not the greatest for addressing elephants in the room. If you are there out of guilt or obligation then you might end up back where you were pre-therapy. Finally, you need to know in your head, what happens afterwards, is this closure? Is this the first step to resuming contact? Will she manipulate you in future with illness or emergency? What did she want your Dad to do - tell you? Flying monkeys should be at her bidding, not you. Finally, what if you reach out and she rejects you...can you handle that?

Good questions to think about here, thank you.

Yes, definitely –own accommodation and an escape route for sure.

You're right, it's the afterward part I'm concerned about, and I don't have answers for that. I worry that it'll set a precedent that I'm not ready to agree to.

She got in touch with my dad about other things –they're still untangling finances after the divorce, and she told him about the hospital situation as explanation for why she'd been out of contact.

I think if she says no it'll feel like something of a relief, to be honest, rather than a rejection –I can understand why she'd say no because it's a lot to handle at once. But NOT offering to go feels like it would weigh heavily...

It’s impossible to say OP without understanding the history which is no doubt very complex.

I would consider going for a couple of days and staying elsewhere.
I’d also expect nothing but negativity
My father died, we were estranged and I didn’t go and see him before he died. I will always regret this.

I clearly have hit a nerve but you've read me completely wrong here.

I do not suppose you are angry with her now, although you have ever right to be. If you understand why she behaved in the ways she did because for instance her parents treated her like you were that is all well and good - but its still no excuse or justification for what she did to you as a child. She had a choice when it came to you and she chose to abuse you; she took the low road and chose not to get the necessary help. She continues to act here of her own free will; she chose to move away from everyone.

Abuse is about power and control and she wanted absolute over you here. They are not nasty all the time but their nice/nasty cycle of abuse is a continuous one.

You need to protect your own self here. Going to her will expose you to more harm and could further hinder you personally.

I wish you well in both therapy and in going forward with your life.

@Easterbunnyiswindowshopping for what it's worth, I don't think it makes you a bad daughter at all - everyone's situation is different and it sounds like you've made the right call for you.

@PurpleHollyhocks if it's OK to ask, what specifically is the regret about for you when it comes to your father? Is it about closure for yourself, or something else? I've been thinking about this a fair bit too, recently, which is why I ask...

Also op she hasn't asked for your help
You are assuming a great deal here
It might back fire on you
You appear to want to do this for her when I suspect it's the reverse

She's told your dad, not you. What's he doing about it?

When my dad was dying, I decided to base all my decisions on what I was less likely to regret.

I.e. in future would I regret not going to see him, as it turned out I probably went once too many but I am comfortable with that because it was all about what I wanted to do at the time. I know that personally I would have struggled if my regret was not going.

That isn't meant to influence your choice but I just wanted to offer that perspective, i.e. in future, when she has passed away what do you think YOU would regret more

Op why do you think that she hasn't told you herself directly?

@Motnight

Op why do you think that she hasn't told you herself directly?

As someone who is also nc with my mother, I would be asking myself the same question.

I have also considered what I would do if my mother became elderly and infirm and I was requested. I wouldn't go.

As Atilla says, it's not about being angry. I'm no longer angry with my mother and I understand what in her background made parenting hard for her but she chose not to deal with it and to take it out on me instead.

I'm also an empathetic and compassionate person but I have mad my decision with regard to her and I will stick by it.

So difficult, OP. Everyone's circumstances are so different, and it can be difficult to judge another person's situation.

I think posters have given you some good advice / choices. I would only add it is an operation, perhaps serious, but not necessarily a life-threatening one, so she should be able to recover. As someone else pointed out, she also hasn't contacted you. Another option is that you could send her an email or card sending good wishes of recovery. Or, as others have said, just a brief visit where you can disengage and return from easily.

The "good daughter" thing. The other side of being a "good daughter" is wanting a connection. Almost because sometimes its something you both missed out on. Sometimes I think its worth trying, sometimes its not. Many daughters do try their best here, and even occasionally the mother. However, maybe sometimes its more realistic to accept that after a certain point there is not a whole lot more that can be done.

I wouldn’t. What if she’s incredibly grateful and nice and it all goes really well? How do you then close that lid again? She’s receiving medical treatment.

I do understand. You understand how their own experiences shaped who they became. I felt a huge amount of sympathy for my father once I was old enough to understand. But, it’s not an easy thing to do to cut off a parent. It takes its toll. So to invite that situation back into your life, then have to extract yourself all over again, will not do you any good.

Only you know the circumstances here.

Talk it over with someone you trust and think about the pros and cons of going.

If you do decided to go, make your boundaries in yourself before you go.

The treatment for the teeth is really not bad to cope with. She can ask for sedation. You certainly don't need to visit her.

Sorry to ask, but what made her move to a country where she won't know anyone?

Is it a country where care can easily be sourced or is it likely you could go and be expected to under take personal care and then find it hard to leave?

And what brought her on to and then off the roof!

[quote fromagreatheight]@AttilaTheMeerkat I should have expected you here.

I know a lot of people hold you in high regard around these parts, but I'm always unsettled by how quickly you show up on these kinds of posts with such black and white advice to people in vulnerable and often complex situations.

She's shown me plenty of consideration in as much as she's able to, and I've given you no reason to make such a statement that I was 'just there to serve her'. I don't know if you simply refuse to see the grey areas in these kinds of relationships or you lack the capacity to do so, but I'd suggest you take a careful look at the potential impact of your posts on people who are navigating situations that are subtle, sensitive and complex.

As I thought I made entirely clear in the beginning of my post, I'm not angry with her, I understand why she behaved in the ways she did, and I'm capable of holding both emotional spaces at once.

What I would hope to achieve from such a visit, since you asked, is to give a woman who did the best she could in raising me some support in a vulnerable and scary time, when she has no-one around her. The best she could wasn't good enough, and it's still problematic, but that doesn't mean my own value system and morals go out the window.[/quote]
@fromagreatheight

Absolutely agree with everything you've said here.

Gosh, hadn't realised there were so many replies. Apologies for the delay in responding.

@Sconeface he's offering to go out and be with her. Which he absolutely doesn't have to do, as her ex-husband, and she's not going to accept, since he's the person much of her paranoia centres around. But he's trying to do the best he can (and his current partner is supporting him to do so, which is incredibly understanding of her).

@Motnight I think probably because we've been NC for years and she thinks it's because I don't care about her?

@ChimpyChamp your comment about wanting a connection caught right in my throat –I do. I wish she was other than she is. I wish she were capable of making good on her promises. And I wish I were able to be the daughter I want to be able to be without having to weather the impact. If it were anyone else in the world I'd be there in a heartbeat. I hate that my own mother is the person around whom I feel like my usual values don't apply.

@Sn0tnose if she were incredibly nice and grateful I'd be incredibly grateful... AND I also completely get (and am equally afraid of) how difficult it would be to to-and-fro on a decision like this. Although oddly I'm more worried about how unfair it would feel to her than how it would be for me. Some work to do there, clearly.

@Whatdramain2022 they're slicing up as far as her cheekbones to implant metal rods. I think sedation is an understatement –and her recovery might be a bit more significant than you're imagining.

@MichelleScarn - I'm not sure where to start with your questions, nor am I sure they're really relevant to the core of what I'm dealing with, so respectfully I'm going to leave them out.

@dogmandu thank you. Glad to hear I'm not the only one.

its tough...funny enough most folks would have cut my mum off, she was beaten by my father from age of 17 until he left her at 24, he left her sleeping with a knife under her pillow. She was an angry woman who hit me and my sisters and would throw us out when she was angry with us, i was hit with brushes etc. We would regularly end up in a block of flats watching her searching for us. I dont hate my mum, as an adult i look back and realise she was only young herself and suffered alot of trauma. I love my mum...whilst she isnt perfect she was our constant...made christmas, birthdays special... life isnt always hollywood...when my dad got sick i didnt rush to see him as my DH was in the middle of a cancer diagnosis...i didnt see my dad but he was not my parent, he didnt contribute to my life and made no effort. I still felt sad i didnt make his funeral but also feel it would have been wrong of me to show up

Yes it’s tough. It can be helpful to het some input from others. But of course at the end of the day we have to make our own choices in the here and now. You sound a super, thoughtful person and I think if you give yourself some more time and space I believe you will will become clearer.

My mum sounds similar to yours from your description and I regularly worry about what I will do if/when she ends up widowed. We are not NC but I have found it a very nice break to not have to go and visit her (abroad) for the last 2 years of the pandemic.

In your place I would be worried about being sucked in. As the daughter of this type of woman you are likely a people pleaser and ‘rescuer’ at your core and she will play on this to hook you back in. They are so clever. If you do go, be very mindful of your boundaries. Is there a middle ground though? Could you get in touch via letters/phone instead of going the whole hog? Even pay for physical help or have shopping delivered if you want to help during her recovery.

[quote fromagreatheight]@Easterbunnyiswindowshopping for what it's worth, I don't think it makes you a bad daughter at all - everyone's situation is different and it sounds like you've made the right call for you.

@PurpleHollyhocks if it's OK to ask, what specifically is the regret about for you when it comes to your father? Is it about closure for yourself, or something else? I've been thinking about this a fair bit too, recently, which is why I ask...[/quote]
I think it’s a mix really
I feel that by not seeing him I behaved in a way that goes against who I want to be. I protected myself but in doing so, I think damaged myself more
There is a peace in doing the ‘right’ thing that I haven’t got

My DF was not a good father but I wasn’t a good daughter either in the end ….