Estranged mother in hospital

[fromagreatheight]

Context: I haven't seen my mother since 2016, we haven't spoken on the phone / online since 2017, and have very sporadic email contact.

The reasons for this are too much to go into –suffice to say that it's a range of mental health issues, a history of childhood abuse, and a lot of ongoing paranoid / narcissistic traits.

What feels most important to say is that I love her, I understand WHY she is the way she is, I'm not angry with her, but I can't have her in my life in any meaningful way.

The current situation:

After no response from her to my emails since June last year, she's just emailed my dad and let him know she's been in hospital after falling off the roof of her house. Broken ribs, knocked out all her top teeth, dislocated shoulder, etc, etc... We don't know when this happened but it sounds as though she's home again after a hospital stay.

Next week she has a big operation to install rods in her face to hold in a set of false top teeth. Sounds like a hefty procedure and she's always been terrified of the dentist (to the point where she never took me as a kid because she couldn't bring herself to go). She's alone –she recently moved to a new country and has no family nearby, and doesn't know many people.

A big part of me thinks I should fly out to be with her for the time around this operation (we live in different countries). Another part of me thinks it would be piling one big emotional event on top of another, and might be too much.

I'm also scared of reopening the Pandora's box of our relationship and turning this into the start of expectations that things will be different from now on, which I have very mixed feelings about. I'm in therapy at the moment and working through this topic, but I can't be sure what I want yet in terms of how our relationship is in the future.

I feel huge compassion for her right now –much as she puts on a brash and independent front, she must be scared and lonely – and an urge to be a 'good daughter' and go to her.And I'm also scared of what that might mean.

Any words of advice, or things to think about?

I think it’s a mix really
I feel that by not seeing him I behaved in a way that goes against who I want to be. I protected myself but in doing so, I think damaged myself more
There is a peace in doing the ‘right’ thing that I haven’t got

@purplehollyhocks
This is such an insightful and carefully analysed response.

I did go to help and I came back disappointed and angry.

Gosh, this is so difficult.

If you do decide to go, in addition to having your own accommodation and an escape plan in case you need to turn around and leave ... can you set up other things to protect yourself? A friend you can call/email daily (or series of friends) to decompress?

Would it help to have a boundary in place already for "afterwards" and to be quite clear to your mum that, for example, you are available to help for a week (or whatever) but then you will be busy and won't be available to speak again right away? I'm trying to imagine how to navigate this if different scenarios arise.

you're right, it's complicated. You're not in the wrong if you choose to protect yourself and avoid contact--you do not have to sacrifice your own wellbeing in order to be the "good daughter." But if you think you have the emotional tools and safety plan to give it a try, you may feel it's worth doing.

best wishes.

Next week she has a big operation to install rods in her face to hold in a set of false top teeth. Sounds like a hefty procedure and she's always been terrified of the dentist (to the point where she never took me as a kid because she couldn't bring herself to go). She's alone –she recently moved to a new country and has no family nearby, and doesn't know many people

The description of this sounds worse than it is so I wonder if that's how your Mum told it to your Dad. It will be the All-on-4 procedure. It's 4 dental implants placed in the jaw to host a fixed prosthesis. While it's a hefty dental procedure, in the grand scale of things it is a minor operation which will be performed under sedation, possibly general anaesthetic.
People fly abroad from the UK to Eastern European countries every single day to have this procedure done.
I consider myself to be a recovered dental phobic so I can well understand her fear. However, I don't think you should feel obliged in any way at all to fly out to her to be with her for this procedure. She'll be in good hands with the dentist. She will have had to arrange for someone to come and collect her afterwards as you can't go home by yourself after something like that. She hasn't asked you to go out so has probably made arrangements.
She'll not be aware of anything while it's going. The healing afterwards might be a bit painful.

I don't think you should fly out for this because it's putting you under pressure to restart contact without out giving you time to think about whether you want that to happen or not.
If it was something like a heart by-pass operation then maybe, yes, you could consider it an emergency and with a greater risk of something going wrong.

I am a person who lives in another country without family around. Sometimes it's very lonely. But if you choose to do something like that, you have to have plans for scenarios like needing dental implants because you can't just expect someone to fly over because you need to have someone collect you afterwards.

TL:DR - don't fly over for this event because it's not as dramatic as it sounds but maybe spend some time thinking about whether you wish to restore contact with her and if so, under what terms.

[quote fromagreatheight]@AttilaTheMeerkat I should have expected you here.

I know a lot of people hold you in high regard around these parts, but I'm always unsettled by how quickly you show up on these kinds of posts with such black and white advice to people in vulnerable and often complex situations.

She's shown me plenty of consideration in as much as she's able to, and I've given you no reason to make such a statement that I was 'just there to serve her'. I don't know if you simply refuse to see the grey areas in these kinds of relationships or you lack the capacity to do so, but I'd suggest you take a careful look at the potential impact of your posts on people who are navigating situations that are subtle, sensitive and complex.

As I thought I made entirely clear in the beginning of my post, I'm not angry with her, I understand why she behaved in the ways she did, and I'm capable of holding both emotional spaces at once.

What I would hope to achieve from such a visit, since you asked, is to give a woman who did the best she could in raising me some support in a vulnerable and scary time, when she has no-one around her. The best she could wasn't good enough, and it's still problematic, but that doesn't mean my own value system and morals go out the window.[/quote]
This is pretty rude considering you are asking for help and clearly struggling with the pressure to be 'the good daughter'. That societal pressure is huge and I think Atilla offers a very good counterbalance to this when she posts. It's often needed as people are so mired in the FOG when they ask for help and posters who have 'normal' family relationships cannot contemplate the lives of those who don't so offer advice based on their own experiences, which is of no help to those with abusive families. To single out her post is very uncalled for.

My opinion is you'd be mad to open Pandora's box. I did and it caused me no end of grief for years afterwards when I had been living happily and peacefully no contact for years beforehand. My mother is getting older now and I suspect I'll soon be getting messages like the one you have had. I will not be responding in any way. I've learned my lesson. You reap what you sow in life. This applies to both my mother and to me and I am at peace with that.

Would she find your presence comforting, do you think? You sound like an empathic and compassionate person, I'm just wondering if she is the sort of person who can receive comfort from others.

I'd personally be concerned that the visit could turn out disappointing on both sides. But you know yourself, and her, and no one posting on here does.

I hope you can make a decision that you feel at peace with, either way

I think OP had a fair point about Attila’s post and it was expressed well. Some things in life are black and white but many things are not.

We are all in danger of projecting our own experience onto others. Parent-adult child relationships are often particularly complicated, and not so easily understood on a forum as more basic questions, nor so easily advised on. Probably one reason people don’t post more on these more complex threads too.

I hope the OP has had a few pointers that may have helped, but most of all that she can make her own mind up and I wish her the best whatever she decides to do or not to do.

I stopped contact with my own mum 9 years ago under what sounds like similar circumstances. I am not angry at my mum anymore and wish her well. However, she was an absolutely destructive force in my own life and I have only been able to be happy and confident without her in my life.
Things are simpler for me though as I don’t love her. There is no bond there. My sister is also no contact and had a different relationship to me. She did (and prob still does) love my mum and would feel much more conflicted, like you. However, she also wouldn’t visit in this sort of situation because she knows the damage done and doesn’t want to go there again as it was all so stressful. My sister would struggle with this decision though and feel a lot of guilt so I fully understand how difficult this must be for you. I would advise staying away but I know this is easier said than done if there is still some love there.

Nightmare situation. I hope you figure out what to do. I know what you mean about yr own values not going out the window.
I might send a card. She cannot fire off a reply and you wont be on edge waiting for it. But i wouldnt fly home to see m6 mother if she was not r3sponding to emails. My mother lov3s a good ol silent treatment so i feel ive tried to fix things and she could not meet me there. Demonising me is what works for her.

@EssexLioness you are in the same situation as me. There are four of us and we all have very different and difficult relationships with our mother.
I have seen her or spoken to her for over seven years. I wouldn't go if she was in hospital and I have cancer and purposely haven't told me siblings so they don't tell her or they feel conflicted...
it's really sad.

@Stomacharmeleon sorry to hear you have cancer and in the same situation completely. I understand you not wanting to put your siblings in a difficult situation but that sounds very lonely and isolating for you. My DH has been given instructions that if Ever I am in hospital following an accident/ serious illness my mum is not to be informed. Unlikely she would go to the effort to visit but I wouldn’t want to take the risk.

@EssexLioness I do think they would want to respect my wants/ thoughts but I reality she is highly manipulative and they would end up spilling. Even having contact with them is a relatively new thing.... my db moved back to my area and we got in contact as his dw ran past me :) hadn't seen him for years. My sister is in and out- maybe two texts a year and no face to face and nothing with youngest sibling.
Made me sad when I saw my DB as he said 'I was worried you would die and no one would tell me'
I already have a serious illness. It's sucks. I am just so so reluctant to let any of them as they originally caused me so much pain.
Anyway sorry for thread hijacking.

My first thought was ‘oh the irony in this’. She never took you to the dentist as a child because she couldn’t bring herself to (refusing you basic healthcare as a child) but now she would like to see you travel from another country to support her as an adult at the dentist.

Personally, I wouldn’t go. But my thoughts are very likely colored by my experiences with my own mother.

I think you need to ask yourself the question if a) you can afford to take time off from work, pay for travel costs and for accommodation there (I think you really do need your own space).
b) if you don’t go, do you think you’ll feel guilty and regret it?

What I’m trying to say is that you don’t owe her anything…only go there if it makes you feel better to do this for her. Whatever you decide, you’re a kind person even for just considering it. I would have wished her well and probably said karma is a funny one isn’t she.

@haismfh it's not All on 4, no. She doesn't have enough bone in her upper jaw for that (years of eating disorders have turned her jawbones to dust) so they are embedding rods into her cheekbones. They're called Zygomatic implants.

Thanks all for your responses –I appreciate those of you who have recognised the nuance involved and offered support.

It doesn't sound as though the mother is trying to "hook her back in" - as the OP has been emailing her and the mother hasn't been replying.
Not all mothers are the same.

So far she hasn't even told you what has happened, never mind asked you to go.

Does your father know the situation between the two of you?

Did he tell you with a view to going or just to let you know?

If you think it would be too much for you then you really shouldn't go imo.

it's not All on 4, no. She doesn't have enough bone in her upper jaw for that (years of eating disorders have turned her jawbones to dust) so they are embedding rods into her cheekbones. They're called Zygomatic implants

Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up OP. So a more significant operation than the All on 4 thing.
I still stand by what I said though - it's a minor operation in the grand scheme of things though very unpleasant of course.
And so you shouldn't feel rushed into flying out to her if that's that want you to do and if it's going to cause you too much emotional pain.

@UserBotLurking9to5

Nightmare situation. I hope you figure out what to do. I know what you mean about yr own values not going out the window. I might send a card. She cannot fire off a reply and you wont be on edge waiting for it. But i wouldnt fly home to see m6 mother if she was not r3sponding to emails. My mother lov3s a good ol silent treatment so i feel ive tried to fix things and she could not meet me there. Demonising me is what works for her.

So if OP emails her mother and her mother replies to the email - that is a manipulative "firing off a reply". If the mother doesn't respond, then that is "a good ol silent treatment".

OP - you obviously want to have some level of contact with your mother, as you have been emailing her. You feel bad about her going through the operation alone. If you can't face visiting, then I suggest you send her a card and have some flowers delivered. At least then she'll know that someone is thinking of her. Falling off a roof - sounds absolutely horrendous.
As she's moved to a different country, there seems little danger that doing this will cause her to try to make you an important part of her life through manipulative means, as some posters have been suggesting. Especially as she hasn't even been responding to emails and hasn't told you about her accident. Just send the card and flowers in such a way that they are not inviting any kind of response.
Your relationship with your mum doesn't have to be as toxic/vindictive as some posters seem to want it to be. Maybe over time you can regain some kind of long distance relationship and things can improve.

@Swear
What?

I think swear has some good points - she hasn't told you about the accident, no hint that she wants you there and she has not replied to your mails in quite a few months.

It might be an idea to think through the possible options : -
Could it be possible to text her? If she ignores the phone then you sort of have your reply, since she's clearly fit enough to email your dad. I imagine that with that much dental damage she might not be able to speak very well, so ringing might not work.

You'd need to think through if you would be willing to go out there, and for how long, or if you just want to speak.

If she doesn't want you there, then that's that.

If she does, you would need to think ahead of time about how to handle it, as others have neatly outlined. You have to look after yourself first, and be able to give what you can to her when you are not too vulnerable.

How would you feel in 10 years' time if you don't go?

Only you can answer that question but fwiw from the tone of your posts I suspect that you are the sort of person who would feel better if they do try to help her - but if you do go, keep your boundaries strong.

Also, PM'd you.

So, an update...

I sent her a short e-mail letting her know I'd heard about the accident and the operation, that I was thinking of her, and that I hoped if she needed help she would let me know.

"I know things between us aren't ideal at the moment, but it doesn't mean I don't care, or want you to be OK"

That was Friday evening. Apparently yesterday (Saturday) my dad got another e-mail from her which contained some very nasty things about me –so much so he wouldn't tell me what they were –but he wanted to let me know at least at a high level so I wouldn't go zipping out there to support someone who (right now at least) definitely doesn't want anything to do with me.

Heartbreakingly predictable, really shitty, and a massive relief all at once. So there we are.

Also @PurpleHollyhocks just wanted to send you some hugs. Appreciate your honesty and I can very much relate to what you're describing.

Oh no. :-/ There's your answer but, oh wow.

You acted in congruence with your values as you knew you wanted to.

You reached out. You said you cared.

I know that when the dust settles after all the anxiety, it does help to know that you can't really wish you'd done something dramatically different.

x

You are kinda making the assumption that she will be scared and need your help. Unless she has said this to you? Sometimes adults have to stand on their own 2 feet. Including yourself. You don’t need to be the “diligent daughter” and hope that your mother values you, by rushing to her side. It’s a fairytale. You are enough as you are, and if she can’t recognise that now, she never will - however much you are “there” for her.

@fromagreatheight Well you can rest easy now. You did what you could and clearly you can do no more. Well handled and thank you for your kind words