If men became the primary carer by default

[outbutnotoutout]

If men became the primary carer of the children by default, like 90% of the women do, would this quash their need to screw around elsewhere?
I see so many times that the excuse for an affair was, ‘they were bored’, felt trapped by the family’, ‘they want to go out and have some fun’. I’m sure you can add more to the list.
And then they just bugger off to ‘start a new life’ with the OW, if they had to take the children with them as well, if they were the ones who then had the children the higher % of the time, who had to juggle childcare, their work, life outside the family would they think about swanning off with the OW?

Also these men who go from woman to woman having children, then move on without having to pay for them or provide care for them.
Why are women, mostly, always the primary carer?

(Just as a story on the side, I knew a man whose wife had told him, if he ever had an affair he would be the primary carer for the children and she would have them on weekends and half holidays. It sure focused his mind somewhat)

Lol I'll tell you about my sister who found out her dh was having an affair. They have 3 lovely kids. Hard work. She did all the childcare and worked a demanding job. He had hobbies and time out. She was always knackered...sure you've heard it all before eh.

Anyway shit hits the fan and he admits he's been seeing someone else, he's not attracted to dsis anymore, has been feeling depressed, not prioritised blah blah fucking blah. The usual script. She asks if he wants to split and he says yes. So she went and packed a bag and left.

He was dumbfounded, he honestly thought he'd swan off with his new gf with no kids or responsibility and he could leave her to pick up the slack and start again.

She started off seeing the boys weekends till she was properly on her feet (she was suffering from exhaustion) then asked for 50/50. He was like no no just come home you can be resident parent I'll leave the house. Nope she stuck to her guns, rented a house, took the kids 3.5 days a week.

New gf didn't take well to the situation and they split pretty quickly. He soon realised how bloody hard it is bringing up 3 kids, working full time and running a house. Massively regrets everything.

I was worried about how the kids would be effected by my dsis leaving because I think we just assume moms the one who's the constant. My dsis was suffering with her mental health at the time due to things he'd done and being left to cope alone. The kids are doing ok.

An ex-colleague of mine divorced his wife without there being anyone else involved — he said he’d realised ‘family life wasn’t for him’. He had in fact had very little to do with family life in the sense of school runs, housework, cooking, play dates homework etc, all of which were taken care of by his wife, who also worked FT, so he got a real shock when the post-split 50/50 arrangement meant he was having to deal with school uniforms, dinners, dropping children at clubs, illness, dentist etc for the first time in his life. His ex-wife, by all accounts, is finding her post-split life much easier.

@forlornlorna

Lol I'll tell you about my sister who found out her dh was having an affair. They have 3 lovely kids. Hard work. She did all the childcare and worked a demanding job. He had hobbies and time out. She was always knackered...sure you've heard it all before eh.

Anyway shit hits the fan and he admits he's been seeing someone else, he's not attracted to dsis anymore, has been feeling depressed, not prioritised blah blah fucking blah. The usual script. She asks if he wants to split and he says yes. So she went and packed a bag and left.

He was dumbfounded, he honestly thought he'd swan off with his new gf with no kids or responsibility and he could leave her to pick up the slack and start again.

She started off seeing the boys weekends till she was properly on her feet (she was suffering from exhaustion) then asked for 50/50. He was like no no just come home you can be resident parent I'll leave the house. Nope she stuck to her guns, rented a house, took the kids 3.5 days a week.

New gf didn't take well to the situation and they split pretty quickly. He soon realised how bloody hard it is bringing up 3 kids, working full time and running a house. Massively regrets everything.

I was worried about how the kids would be effected by my dsis leaving because I think we just assume moms the one who's the constant. My dsis was suffering with her mental health at the time due to things he'd done and being left to cope alone. The kids are doing ok.

Your sis is amazing.

My sister did similar. He didn’t have an affair but he was very uninvolved; spent all his weekends on his various hobbies etc, no emotional support, stingy with money.

She outearned him by a LOT and did all the parenting and housework. She was exhausted and unhappy and nothing ever changed.

She left and insisted on 50/50. It’s actually worked out great, he’s now really involved with the kids, who are thriving.

@forlornlorna Brilliant work by your sister! I'll keep this in my back pocket in the unfortunate event that I or anyone I know is in the same position.

@forlornlorna

Lol I'll tell you about my sister who found out her dh was having an affair. They have 3 lovely kids. Hard work. She did all the childcare and worked a demanding job. He had hobbies and time out. She was always knackered...sure you've heard it all before eh.

Anyway shit hits the fan and he admits he's been seeing someone else, he's not attracted to dsis anymore, has been feeling depressed, not prioritised blah blah fucking blah. The usual script. She asks if he wants to split and he says yes. So she went and packed a bag and left.

He was dumbfounded, he honestly thought he'd swan off with his new gf with no kids or responsibility and he could leave her to pick up the slack and start again.

She started off seeing the boys weekends till she was properly on her feet (she was suffering from exhaustion) then asked for 50/50. He was like no no just come home you can be resident parent I'll leave the house. Nope she stuck to her guns, rented a house, took the kids 3.5 days a week.

New gf didn't take well to the situation and they split pretty quickly. He soon realised how bloody hard it is bringing up 3 kids, working full time and running a house. Massively regrets everything.

I was worried about how the kids would be effected by my dsis leaving because I think we just assume moms the one who's the constant. My dsis was suffering with her mental health at the time due to things he'd done and being left to cope alone. The kids are doing ok.

bloody brilliant

@Tullig

An ex-colleague of mine divorced his wife without there being anyone else involved — he said he’d realised ‘family life wasn’t for him’. He had in fact had very little to do with family life in the sense of school runs, housework, cooking, play dates homework etc, all of which were taken care of by his wife, who also worked FT, so he got a real shock when the post-split 50/50 arrangement meant he was having to deal with school uniforms, dinners, dropping children at clubs, illness, dentist etc for the first time in his life. His ex-wife, by all accounts, is finding her post-split life much easier.

Love it.

Even if the men aren't the full time carer, 50/50 is so much better than I will be with the OW and have the kids now and again.

Loving these stories of women doing this!

I didn't go quite as far, but my ex has so stepped up now we're divorced. The penny has finally dropped for him (too late, gutted) about why I was too exhausted to greet him with a blowjob.

@forlornlorna
It may take her children a while, but there's a valuable lesson for them to learn from this.

I know sometimes, the woman can be her own worse enemy, as in she makes excuses for the husband.

He wouldn't cope
He wouldn't feed/wash/clothe them

But in reality they are perfectly capable, they just haven't been forced/allowed to do it

Possibly. Maybe this helps explain the fact younger millenial men, influenced by feminism and enabled by workplaces that allow them to contribute more to caregiving are actually less likely to cheat than millenial women, according to recent studies: www.pulse.ng/lifestyle/relationships-weddings/why-are-millennial-women-cheating-more-than-men/vrwb8c1

Only by 1% mind, so personally think it shows screwing around is more a personality issue than a gender one - one theory is women of similar ages in previous generations didn't cheat as much as men because of lack of opportunity (i.e. they were stuck at home, didn't have careers and there was much more judgement about being a "good" wife) as opposed to there being any genetic basis.

Just to add: I do think you're right about the responsibility being an issue though. My wife left me for an OM for exactly the reasons you state - ‘they were bored’, felt trapped by the family’, ‘they want to go out and have some fun’ - despite her acknowledging I did more than my fair share of the caregiving. However, she has very wealthy parents who cushioned any of the fallout for her. She didn't need to worry about living arrangements (her parents bought out my share of the family home for her), income (they gifted her an early inheritance so she could continue doing a course and not bother with a job) or eve childcare that much (I have the kids 50% of the time and, after a year, she moved the OM in so even in the 50% she has them, he looks after them too). All that really changed is she swapped out me for her new boyfriend in the family home and had the kids 50% less of the time.

I want to be clear I'm not saying this to go "but teh menz..." rather to back up what you say: when you've got factors that cushion you from the fallout of your actions, then, yes, I think that does mean you think less about cheating. And yeah, at the moment these people are still ikely (across all ages) to mainly be men because of how society operated. However, the data does appear to suggest that does seem to be changing and women are being allowed to be that person more and more.

@TossaCointoYerWitcha

Possibly. Maybe this helps explain the fact younger millenial men, influenced by feminism and enabled by workplaces that allow them to contribute more to caregiving are actually less likely to cheat than millenial women, according to recent studies: www.pulse.ng/lifestyle/relationships-weddings/why-are-millennial-women-cheating-more-than-men/vrwb8c1

Only by 1% mind, so personally think it shows screwing around is more a personality issue than a gender one - one theory is women of similar ages in previous generations didn't cheat as much as men because of lack of opportunity (i.e. they were stuck at home, didn't have careers and there was much more judgement about being a "good" wife) as opposed to there being any genetic basis.

That's quite interesting actually about opportunity and judgement with the wife, but I guess the men it was 'sowing his oats' or not getting enough in the bedroom

@TossaCointoYerWitcha

Just to add: I do think you're right about the responsibility being an issue though. My wife left me for an OM for exactly the reasons you state - ‘they were bored’, felt trapped by the family’, ‘they want to go out and have some fun’ - despite her acknowledging I did more than my fair share of the caregiving. However, she has very wealthy parents who cushioned any of the fallout for her. She didn't need to worry about living arrangements (her parents bought out my share of the family home for her), income (they gifted her an early inheritance so she could continue doing a course and not bother with a job) or eve childcare that much (I have the kids 50% of the time and, after a year, she moved the OM in so even in the 50% she has them, he looks after them too). All that really changed is she swapped out me for her new boyfriend in the family home and had the kids 50% less of the time.

I want to be clear I'm not saying this to go "but teh menz..." rather to back up what you say: when you've got factors that cushion you from the fallout of your actions, then, yes, I think that does mean you think less about cheating. And yeah, at the moment these people are still ikely (across all ages) to mainly be men because of how society operated. However, the data does appear to suggest that does seem to be changing and women are being allowed to be that person more and more.

I agree actually, that there are a small majority of men where the role is reversed. But not many.

My actual question, was really, would men be less likely to stray if they thought the responsibility for the children, home life defaulted to them if they were unfaithful?

@forlornlorna

Lol I'll tell you about my sister who found out her dh was having an affair. They have 3 lovely kids. Hard work. She did all the childcare and worked a demanding job. He had hobbies and time out. She was always knackered...sure you've heard it all before eh.

Anyway shit hits the fan and he admits he's been seeing someone else, he's not attracted to dsis anymore, has been feeling depressed, not prioritised blah blah fucking blah. The usual script. She asks if he wants to split and he says yes. So she went and packed a bag and left.

He was dumbfounded, he honestly thought he'd swan off with his new gf with no kids or responsibility and he could leave her to pick up the slack and start again.

She started off seeing the boys weekends till she was properly on her feet (she was suffering from exhaustion) then asked for 50/50. He was like no no just come home you can be resident parent I'll leave the house. Nope she stuck to her guns, rented a house, took the kids 3.5 days a week.

New gf didn't take well to the situation and they split pretty quickly. He soon realised how bloody hard it is bringing up 3 kids, working full time and running a house. Massively regrets everything.

I was worried about how the kids would be effected by my dsis leaving because I think we just assume moms the one who's the constant. My dsis was suffering with her mental health at the time due to things he'd done and being left to cope alone. The kids are doing ok.

Your dsis is incredible.

I’m not sure
I know someone ( mum) who left the kids and the dad didn’t step up
Social services got involved and mum came back

@outbutnotoutout I suppose if they perceived this as potentially making their life less fun and easy and they were regularly aware of this fact, then quite possibly.

That said, there’s always people who seem incapable of self-reflection anyway - how many people spend huge amounts on credit cards for a short-term thrill without thinking how they’ll pay it off, for example? And it might be rather than leaving their spouse they’ll still screw around but just in secret, thinking they’ll never get caught.

@forlornlorna

Lol I'll tell you about my sister who found out her dh was having an affair. They have 3 lovely kids. Hard work. She did all the childcare and worked a demanding job. He had hobbies and time out. She was always knackered...sure you've heard it all before eh.

Anyway shit hits the fan and he admits he's been seeing someone else, he's not attracted to dsis anymore, has been feeling depressed, not prioritised blah blah fucking blah. The usual script. She asks if he wants to split and he says yes. So she went and packed a bag and left.

He was dumbfounded, he honestly thought he'd swan off with his new gf with no kids or responsibility and he could leave her to pick up the slack and start again.

She started off seeing the boys weekends till she was properly on her feet (she was suffering from exhaustion) then asked for 50/50. He was like no no just come home you can be resident parent I'll leave the house. Nope she stuck to her guns, rented a house, took the kids 3.5 days a week.

New gf didn't take well to the situation and they split pretty quickly. He soon realised how bloody hard it is bringing up 3 kids, working full time and running a house. Massively regrets everything.

I was worried about how the kids would be effected by my dsis leaving because I think we just assume moms the one who's the constant. My dsis was suffering with her mental health at the time due to things he'd done and being left to cope alone. The kids are doing ok.

This should be THE advice to every single woman on mumsnet whose DP/DH admits he's been having an affair.

The wife should pack a bag and go for her own mental health. Leave the kids with the cheating scumbag and take time out to process the shock and consider the next steps.

Almost every day on mumsnet you read about men dropping these cheating bombshells... and then leaving their wife to try to keep it together for the kids, whilst holding down a fulltime job, a household and crying into her pillow at night. She ends up having to go to the GP to get antidepressants to manage it all, while the cheating husband skips merrily off into a carefree life with OW.... usually without a backward glance to the kids.

Mumsnet should consider pinning this advice somewhere. All women would benefit from it.

Your sister is incredible. She has my admiration.

I totally agree @WizardOfAus

@WizardOfAus pretty much my story although he ended the affair before I found out so he just skipped off to his merry little batchelor pad. He sees the kids eow and one night a week so he has all the free time to to as he pleases. I work more hours than him, do all the shitty kid raising jobs and he babysits. He had them last night and all they did was watch iPads, he didn't even do our 6 year olds reading with her. It's so unfair. I am exhausted, cry every day and this morning I finally caved all called the gp to ask for help... He left 2 years ago

I don't know the answer.

If the starting assumption was 50 /50 I think it would make a lot of difference and also make it easier for men to get access if the split is less than amicable. It's definitely an anomaly how often women are the primary carer post separation but does just seem to be the way society operates. The man moves out of family home and life continues (usually regardless of fault). If it was more a case of 50 / 50 access and that starts from day one post separation with both sides having to spend time elsewhere when not their time with the kids that would make a big difference if the pair really couldn't stand being around each other (obviously aside from abuse cases)

I'm not sure cheating is necessarily that skewed to one sex it's just presented in a different way when men /women cheat.

@TossaCointoYerWitcha

Possibly. Maybe this helps explain the fact younger millenial men, influenced by feminism and enabled by workplaces that allow them to contribute more to caregiving are actually less likely to cheat than millenial women, according to recent studies: www.pulse.ng/lifestyle/relationships-weddings/why-are-millennial-women-cheating-more-than-men/vrwb8c1

Only by 1% mind, so personally think it shows screwing around is more a personality issue than a gender one - one theory is women of similar ages in previous generations didn't cheat as much as men because of lack of opportunity (i.e. they were stuck at home, didn't have careers and there was much more judgement about being a "good" wife) as opposed to there being any genetic basis.

This is quite interesting as studies from the US show that for under 30’s women are more likely to cheat then men, but only by 1%

ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-more-the-demographics-of-cheating-in-america

As to the question
My actual question, was really, would men be less likely to stray if they thought the responsibility for the children, home life defaulted to them if they were unfaithful?

Personally I think the answer to this is no, people who want to cheat will cheat no matter what, however if more men took on the “core” child care duties or gave up work and stayed at home, you would see more women cheating, as I (personally), I don’t think cheating is gender related

@forlornlorna

Lol I'll tell you about my sister who found out her dh was having an affair. They have 3 lovely kids. Hard work. She did all the childcare and worked a demanding job. He had hobbies and time out. She was always knackered...sure you've heard it all before eh.

Anyway shit hits the fan and he admits he's been seeing someone else, he's not attracted to dsis anymore, has been feeling depressed, not prioritised blah blah fucking blah. The usual script. She asks if he wants to split and he says yes. So she went and packed a bag and left.

He was dumbfounded, he honestly thought he'd swan off with his new gf with no kids or responsibility and he could leave her to pick up the slack and start again.

She started off seeing the boys weekends till she was properly on her feet (she was suffering from exhaustion) then asked for 50/50. He was like no no just come home you can be resident parent I'll leave the house. Nope she stuck to her guns, rented a house, took the kids 3.5 days a week.

New gf didn't take well to the situation and they split pretty quickly. He soon realised how bloody hard it is bringing up 3 kids, working full time and running a house. Massively regrets everything.

I was worried about how the kids would be effected by my dsis leaving because I think we just assume moms the one who's the constant. My dsis was suffering with her mental health at the time due to things he'd done and being left to cope alone. The kids are doing ok.

I think everyone knows stories like this, a guy I used to work with, found out his wife was cheating, and packed her bags and kicked her out and took over core child care duties and is happier without his wife.