If men became the primary carer by default

[outbutnotoutout]

If men became the primary carer of the children by default, like 90% of the women do, would this quash their need to screw around elsewhere?
I see so many times that the excuse for an affair was, ‘they were bored’, felt trapped by the family’, ‘they want to go out and have some fun’. I’m sure you can add more to the list.
And then they just bugger off to ‘start a new life’ with the OW, if they had to take the children with them as well, if they were the ones who then had the children the higher % of the time, who had to juggle childcare, their work, life outside the family would they think about swanning off with the OW?

Also these men who go from woman to woman having children, then move on without having to pay for them or provide care for them.
Why are women, mostly, always the primary carer?

(Just as a story on the side, I knew a man whose wife had told him, if he ever had an affair he would be the primary carer for the children and she would have them on weekends and half holidays. It sure focused his mind somewhat)

Presumably this has been one of the driving forces behind the patriarchal obsession with keeping women in the home- so that women have less opportunity to cheat than men?

Interestingly, when my ex left for OW he demanded to take our 2 year old son with him as they could offer a "stable family" and OW had gone to the trouble of decorating a room for him . He gave me all the reasons why DS would be better off with them disregarding the fact he'd not done a thing for son since he was born.

The first time he had contact he brought DS back after an hour. That set the tone. When DS was diagnosed with autism, OW was disgusted. I often wonder if I'd said "yeah here you go" how long that would have lasted. Probably all of five seconds in reality. Ex saw DS as a way to normalise their relationship and truly thought I was going to hand DS over and never see him again! He now has no contact.

I really admire the sister of the PP who did what she did. Men get off too lightly with skipping off into the sunset.

Love this idea

I think the vast majority of women won't use their children as pawns in a game of tit for tat with their inadequate partners. I applaud them for that, and underneath it all I think society applauds them for that. In the end they will have peace of mind if they parent their children responsibly and their dc will know it as adults.

I cared about the children, homework, their happiness - he cared about the money and seeing them as and when he wanted.
He didn’t want to pay CM of course not.

He said he wanted them 50/50 but he didn’t I often thought if I rocked up at our second house (he moved into the other house we had) and went here you go - how the kids would have been? He sure as hell doesn’t do homework and they play on computers all day as he needs ‘down time’ when they are there. Eldest doesn’t see him at all now and hasn’t for 7 years - youngest sees him 2 days each half term 1 week Easter, Xmas and summer and that’s it - give it 4 years it will stop. Already daddy can’t have him in feb as he is running a marathon. My ex can just about look after his own selfish stupid self - he couldn’t manage 2 kids 50/50

How do you choose a man who wouldn’t cheat?

Well one simple option is to choose a man who isn't being approached by any other women at all; there are huge numbers of men who are never approached.

One of the prerequisites for cheating is for two women to be attracted to the same man at the same time, so dating a man who is not being approached by any other women is a good option.

@greasyshoes

How do you choose a man who wouldn’t cheat?

Well one simple option is to choose a man who isn't being approached by any other women at all; there are huge numbers of men who are never approached.

One of the prerequisites for cheating is for two women to be attracted to the same man at the same time, so dating a man who is not being approached by any other women is a good option.

That’s quite a weird post. Are you saying ‘Choose someone unattractive and assume everyone else will share your opinion’?

My partner has his son 5-6 nights a week. His ex can't be bothered, and will often tell my partner he's having their son on the remaining nights of the week too. School holidays, he had him 5 of the 6 weeks.

I've known my partner for many years. I saw through their final years together how his wife lost more and more interest in their son and how my partner willingly picked up so much of the care. Even now, he's choosing to not try to get her to pick up the 50% of care they agreed to when they split, as he loves being dad and realises he's only got a couple more years left where his boy wants to hang out with his dad more than his friends.

It's one of the many things I adore about my partner, but frustrates me too as we don't see each other as much as we could because he's got his boy.

Not all men shy away from being the primary carer. Real men push to see their children as much as they can.

My ex however... Loving his life without kids. They don't want to see him, and he's not pursuing them at all. Why would he? They get in the way...and when we were together, he always made it clear to them that they did too.

Some men are amazing (partner), some men are scum (ex)

Don't think most men will have kids. I think a lot of guys aren't really into family life but have children because they feel they need to.

@greasyshoes

How do you choose a man who wouldn’t cheat?

Well one simple option is to choose a man who isn't being approached by any other women at all; there are huge numbers of men who are never approached.

One of the prerequisites for cheating is for two women to be attracted to the same man at the same time, so dating a man who is not being approached by any other women is a good option.

Yep. Go for someone ugly with zero personality.

That will do it. :)

“I'm not sure men would step up, they are more likely to find a woman, often without children, to help them. It's the main complaint of new partners of divorced men, that the men are looking for a replacement to take on childcare and household duties.”

This. I don’t understand everyone applauding one poster’s sister. If you’re the main child carer and you and your partner break up, it’s harder for the children to be without you as they’ll (most of the time) have a stronger bond with you. Your kids may (and I really stress the word may) be fine if you leave them with your useless ex but why would you when you know for damn sure you’ll take better care of them as you always have.

My ex didn’t step up after we broke up. His mother and girlfriend of the month do it on the rare occasions he sees them. Most men don’t become better fathers because you can’t force them to be. The overwhelming number of women who have to go through child maintenance services is evidence of that.

I agree with @A580Hojas. “I think the vast majority of women won't use their children as pawns in a game of tit for tat with their inadequate partners.”

I don’t think people who have affairs genuinely think through all the consequences. I agree couples should coparent after a separation but a lot of men just refuse to do it.

That’s quite a weird post. Are you saying ‘Choose someone unattractive and assume everyone else will share your opinion’?

Choose someone who you could find attractive who is not being approached by other women. How do you know you can't have an emotional connection with someone unless you approach them and allow the chance for a bond to form?

If you just opt for men who are at the centre of social circles and at the centre of women's attention, then inevitably you're going to end up with competition.

@A580Hojas

I think the vast majority of women won't use their children as pawns in a game of tit for tat with their inadequate partners. I applaud them for that, and underneath it all I think society applauds them for that. In the end they will have peace of mind if they parent their children responsibly and their dc will know it as adults.

I agree with this

This. I don’t understand everyone applauding one poster’s sister. If you’re the main child carer and you and your partner break up, it’s harder for the children to be without you as they’ll (most of the time) have a stronger bond with you. Your kids may (and I really stress the word may) be fine if you leave them with your useless ex but why would you when you know for damn sure you’ll take better care of them as you always have.

That poster said
My dsis was suffering with her mental health at the time due to things he'd done and being left to cope alone

It wouldn't have been a decision that she took lightly and for any woman to make that choice just shows how much they were struggling or how they would have felt unable to cope with the situation her ex was planning on putting her in.

If she had stayed then who knows how the situation might have turned out.

I suffered really badly with my mental health after my separation but I couldn’t have been without my children. I can’t imagine only seeing them at weekends and I acknowledge that it must have been a very hard decision to make. I didn’t mean to criticise the poster’s sister. I’m pointing out her choice to be able to hand over the main child care role to her ex isn’t one all women have the option of making. I think her sister’s ex, although not a great father, can’t have been as bad as my ex for example. Mine didn’t ensure they brushed their teeth or wash their clothes, bought the food they liked, cleaned the house, took them to hobbies, did homework with them etc. if her sister’s ex realised how much work it was then he must have upped his game to take better care of them after she left. As I said, there’s a lot of men who won’t do that, so I don’t agree the solution is to leave your kids with a useless ex to sink or swim when you know they’re going to sink. The thought of raising the children by themselves won’t stop them from having an affair because they have no intention of ever taking care of the children by themselves.

@thefourgp

Obviously if the husband was abusive/ neglectful you wouldn't do this, and would fight for custody. But otherwise, I think its completely a good idea for women to reject the sole resident carer role and insist on 50/50.

Re. the idea of girlfriends doing all the work, well women shouldn't accept this either! When I was online dating, it was fairly clear just by chatting which separated dads were looking for a second mother for their child, and there was no way I would even meet them.

Women - albeit wives, ex wives, or new partners - need to stop men getting away with this shite. If you embrace the role of primary carer, the men will take advantage of that. I don't think its a great thing to for kids either - unless, like I said, there is abuse/ neglect involved.

@Grimsknee - so men are more likely to cheat and they are cheating with single unattached women? Why are all these single unattached women not going out with single unattached men though? We have roughly equal numbers of men and women, if some men are dating all the women, then there must be lots of single men with no one? Where are they?

Or it’s just your perception and men and women are both equally likely to cheat.

if some men are dating all the women, then there must be lots of single men with no one? Where are they?

But there are lots of single men. There was the survey only a few years ago which showed that 28% of young american men haven't had sex within the previous year; far higher than the 18% reported by women.

Granted, it was in the USA, but what's to say there aren't lots of single men in the UK also?

There is a large underclass if you like of single men - most almost drop out of society and get by on a diet of computer games and porn.

Generally speaking women will date across and up competency hierarchies whereas men will date across and down. This worked to a degree when men and women were unequal in society but that is changing (quite rightly). More women are in higher education than men and it's only growing. Dating site data suggests the top 80% of women are chasing the top 20% of men whilst the bottom 80% of men are chasing the bottom 20% of women. As women climb the hierarchy their dating prospects get ever smaller.

It's a serious worry for the long term and I have no idea what the solution is. The only group of people doing well are the relatively small group of men at the top.

Lpc3 and the relatively small group of women at the bottom. Right that's it, I'm letting myself go! .

But seriously? The majority of men need to pull their fingers out. Women have a culture of relentless self improvement, fed to them by the media, by the nagging feeling of never being good enough, by the real need to be better than men in order to be perceived as equal to them. Whether it's couch to 5k, going all out for 4 A grade A levels, going on a mindfulness course, hand making thoughtful gifts for your friends, having career goals or a beautifully colour co ordinated living room- the expectations for women are so high that we put the bloody work in, don't we?! Some of that is going to rub off and make us simply.... better people (as well as more stressed and burnt out )

As long as blokes keep labouring under the misconception that all they have to do is show up, the average man is just not going to be as impressive as the average woman- to most peoples' detriment.

As long as blokes keep labouring under the misconception that all they have to do is show up, the average man is just not going to be as impressive as the average woman- to most peoples' detriment.

Sorry, but why does the average man need to be "impressive", and who exactly is he trying to "impress"?

If men were default primary carers, you could bet your boots that childcare would be very heavily subsidised.