How do horrid men attract nice women?

[Zeldahilda123]

I know it’s none of my business but it was just a thought that goes around in my head with no obvious answer. After I left my narcissistic, abusive and (frankly very dangerous) partner, he immediately found his next victim and moved in with her after 2 months, they are now happily engaged and very very happy (according to mutual friends). I have completely cut contact so have no communication with either of them but I just don’t understand. She’s a social worker who works with people, who as I understand it, has to have some sort of psychoanalytic training. She’s apparently very very nice and lovely, but he’s just… not. Red flags aplenty, don’t want to go into details of what he did, but he has no friends or family as they have all realised that he has absolutely no empathy or care for anyone but himself.

I just don’t get it, if she makes him a better human being then I’m all for it, but how can someone so nice be with someone so horrible. A cheating, manipulative, abusive, horrid man. He controlled everything I did, what I looked like, who I saw, etc etc etc.

Again know it’s nothing to do with me and I’m grateful he doesn’t get to abuse me anymore but I guess it’s just curiosity! Has anyone else thought this?

I suspect that as they've moved in after such a short period of time, he's not changed at all. Narcissists are especially good at making all look rosy to the outside world, but as you know, no one knows what goes on behind closed doors

I think nice women get sucked in because narcissistic people are great at pulling at heart strings and 'nice' people want to help. Then before you know it, you've moved in and have no way of leaving, as they've alienated you from friends and family and eroded your self esteem.

But he attracted you didn't he? And I assume you are nice?

They wear a mask at first and are as nice as pie. The real them only starts to come out after they think you're in love with them or are married / have children with them. It's just little red flags at first that are explained away.

Surely you know this after being with him? If he's as bad as you say his new gf will get to know soon enough what he's really like. Whether she leaves him or not is another matter.

I used to feel like this about my ex.... nasty man who appeared to be the one who got a happy ending! Moved in with a lovely women who had some cash and holidayed around the world! As someone who was so nasty, abusive and controlling and left me and our children in poverty it was hard to see!

Took ten years but she eventually divorced him for all the reasons I left and sought therapy (I prob should of). She's still a lovely women and it's uncanny how similar he was eventually with her!

We both are great now without him, I live well and have carved out a great life!

Ultimately it may take time but he will show his true colours! You probably thought he was great once! Poor lady sounds like her life is about to get very shit!

I completely understand how nice women are sucked in (I was one of them) completely love bombed me to the point where i couldn’t believe it, so have no doubts that he was doing it to other people and this lady. But this lady has had to have some sort of training in people and their behaviour right? Why can’t she see it? I don’t know any social workers personally but I’m guessing they would have the knowledge more than most about who has no morals and is dangerous?

Depends on the people and the specifics. Could be that he love bombed her hard and then moved in fast and now she can't find the strength to get the bastard out.

Or he may have negged the shit our of her from the offset, making her think she was punching above her league with him. Maybe flung in some triangulation tactics ect... too. Just for good measure.

Generally speaking though, they either make you feel wonderful or mindfuck you into thinking you're a bit shit and you're lucky to have their attention. The later takes longer though. And works better on those with a history of low self esteem, past abuse or codependeny. Or just on the young and naive unfortunately.

Because a lot of nice women are people pleasers who put their needs and wants second to other people's. If you do that consistently you tend to have fairly harmonious relationships even with awful people, because you give way to them.
Still other nice women go to great pains to see the best in other people, and can be overly tolerant of the faults of others. Many people in helping professions are trained in unconditional respect and non judgementalism, and many go into this work because they are naturally predisposed to these attitudes.
Other nice women are poor judges of character, lack self worth or have learned unhealthy lessons about relationships. None of which prevents them being nice.

I can easily see how it happens

“Many people in helping professions are trained in unconditional respect and non judgementalism, and many go into this work because they are naturally predisposed to these attitudes” - think that must be it. I just hope she’s okay. He’s truly a nasty piece of work and he shouldn’t be around women or people in general. I honestly think he’ll get in trouble with the police at some point, I genuinely do, grooming underage girls in his past (only found out about that afterwards) just a thoroughly nasty person. I just hope she’s able to tap into her training and see him for what he is.

Attraction and attraction styles go much much deeper than knowledge and training. They stem from how we were treated as babies and small children and set a blue print for future relationships. They are actually quite easy to change ( I work with people who are traumatised ) but you have to start by being aware of and wanting to change your patterns.

My ex use to say to me that I made him a better person, it was not until years later that I understood what he meant. He is and was a nasty peace and I really feel for his current gf.

She may have gone into social work because she's a "rescuer" he's love bombing and subconsciously she's picking up needs rescuing?

This is very good podcast which will answer your question.
open.spotify.com/episode/1KUOjUl5p4HVkHd9QjQuSx

She maybe 'nice' but is lacking somehow as an adult. As a social worker, she will have a degree-level qualification so reasonably bright one might assume. As a social worker, she will have been trained in abusive relationships, risk assessment, boundaries, control and power dynamics. She evidently doesn't practice her skills in her personal life. Most social workers I know are rather cynical given what they are exposed to at work. Hard to disengage from professional duty when you are dealing with some extreme social situations. You might presume a social worker dating someone would take their time to know the person, and not move them in within a few weeks of meeting them! I think there is more to this than her being 'nice' and your ex being not. If you had the opportunity to know her in depth then you would perhaps identify her insecurities and shortcomings that allowed her, as a highly qualified professional, to be manipulated quickly by a man...any man.

There was a sticky thread in the relationship board about a police woman who was in an abusive relationship, and I saw a tv program about a social worker who was killed by her abusive partner. Just because you're trained in understanding and dealing with abusers doesn't make you immune. If anything you're probably the type an abuser would pick out.

Don't feel bad about it op. He's not suddenly changed for this woman, unfortunately she's probably experiencing everything you did

A lot of psychologists and social workers are deeply fucked up people who are attracted to these fields because of their own backgrounds. I bet she’s got a history of unstable relationships. Don’t compare yourself. Just count yourself lucky. Also remind yourself that a lot of lovely guys tend to go for arsehole women too.

I know a social worker who is in a relationship with the most vile little man I've ever met in my life. She has low self esteem and was just recovering from a breakdown when he came into her life. She is beautiful and lovely but he seems to have done a number on her as she thinks she is so lucky he has stood by her. Its really horrible to witness. I hope she sees him for what he is soon. She did seem to very briefly but then he did some live bombing and she was back under his spell.

I think that men who are prone to be controlling and abusive no how to attract. My dad and uncles were all builders. They did gardens up and drank alcohol. They were good dad's and hard working loyal husbands. I grew up around that. I had 3 boyfriends in 14 years. The longest relationship was 8 years. The first 2 were immature and young. They used to message other women. Then my 3rd wasn't like that. But he was quiet. Reserved. Hard working and kind. But had no life in him. He never got anything done and was always tired and complaining. I started feeling like I wanted a man who could get on.

I met my 4th boyfriend when he was working for someone on my street and he was there smashing down a garage and was full of confidence and was very polite. He was there a month and we both liked eachother it was obvious. So we swapped numbers and began talking. Once I got talking to him I fell hard and fast for him. He wanted me. I wanted him. We actually took our time. Looking back the red flags began a few days in to us talking.

He told me about his ex and how they were still mates and she'd call in for a cuppa.

He was on opiates for pain and I remember he would be snappy and short sometimes.

I was ready for a hair trim but I remember he started saying he thought I'd suit my hair up. Or my hair shorter. Then he'd say I needed to go in the garden and get a tan. But then he'd say I bet you never wear shorts or whatever. He knew I didn't like my legs. He was half saying he wanted to make me confident. But he was making me feel like he didn't think I was enough.

He started bringing up his ex on and off. Always stories. Memories. Complaints about her. Saying how she was like a little sister To him now etc.

He eventually fell out with me over me asking him questions. He started coming and going in and out my life every 6 weeks or so. He was up and down. Allover. Then he opened up and told me that he wanted us to have a relationship.

We started going out properly. But it was highs and lows. He had depression aswel..so sometimes it was like we couldn't get along for several days or weeks. I'd sometimes feel on egg shells and anxious. Then we'd go good again. His ex caused abut of trouble when she found out we were together. Questions from her were arriving. He was defensive if I tried to say I wasn't happy with their bond. It was like she was allowed to say anything and he was still trying to please her and keep her happy. He blocked her eventually. But she talked to him through texts every now and then.

He started going through a stage of complaining about me. He would text me every hour almost and then suddenly he started saying I was driving him mad with messages. He was trying to make me out to be a nightmare with my phone. He said I wasn't as bad as his ex. Told his cousins I was a nightmare in messages. We had a couple of bickers again about his ex.

I realised he wouldn't have me publicly on his Facebook. He was still single on it. Loads of old photos of his ex. But not once did he ever express he was with me. It was like he gave me just enough and wouldn't give me his full commitment. If I asked about Facebook he would shut me down. He'd say social media wasn't important to him. But say the stuff of his ex was his memories.

I found myself obsessing over his past. What she meant to him now. What I meant. If he really loved me or saw us together properly eventually. It was like he just couldn't let go of her. But he denied it and tried to convince me that I was creating something not real.

During all this. He was borrowing money from me. I paid for everything because he had stopped working. He promised me he would go back soon and we'd want for nothing. I knew how much he had spoilt his ex. I was still waiting for a first date after six months. He was skint. Struggling with his back. I felt like I had come into his life 10 years too late. He couldn't offer me anything. His ex had had the best years. She had the holidays. The gestures. The pet dogs. The garden. The attention. The Facebook acknowledgment. The meals out. The flowers.

I felt like I was some sort of half secret toy. He told people I was his girlfriend including family. But he was very clever to never completely give me what I wanted. Which was him to publicly say I was his girlfriend and show me off.

He often would ask me or suggest hair or clothing styles to me too. He wanted me to fall into a role like his ex I think. He wanted me in dresses and hair and nails done. Comfortable and confident and wanting to eat out at posh places.

But the irony was he hated his exes independence and he drove her crazy with it. He ended up cheating and lying to her. But he hated her career and her friends. He wanted her home focused on him. She wouldn't do that.

I realised I was giving him the right amount of attention but he still wanted parts of his ex aswel. It was like he charmed me and so gradually dropped hints and broke me down..until I was just so lost. I didn't feel like his girlfriend on one hand. But on the other I was his girlfriend.

@Justilou1

A lot of psychologists and social workers are deeply fucked up people who are attracted to these fields because of their own backgrounds. I bet she’s got a history of unstable relationships. Don’t compare yourself. Just count yourself lucky. Also remind yourself that a lot of lovely guys tend to go for arsehole women too.

I'd be interested in the research that has led you to such a strong statement.

Because narcissists attract people pleasers, and are very good at control once they've reeled someone in.
I've seen this in friendships too when an obviously very narcissistic and unpleasant person always seems to have a 'bestie' that will stand by them regardless of what they do or say to others.

@scoobydoo1971

She maybe 'nice' but is lacking somehow as an adult. As a social worker, she will have a degree-level qualification so reasonably bright one might assume. As a social worker, she will have been trained in abusive relationships, risk assessment, boundaries, control and power dynamics. She evidently doesn't practice her skills in her personal life. Most social workers I know are rather cynical given what they are exposed to at work. Hard to disengage from professional duty when you are dealing with some extreme social situations. You might presume a social worker dating someone would take their time to know the person, and not move them in within a few weeks of meeting them! I think there is more to this than her being 'nice' and your ex being not. If you had the opportunity to know her in depth then you would perhaps identify her insecurities and shortcomings that allowed her, as a highly qualified professional, to be manipulated quickly by a man...any man.

Golly. He's nasty, manipulative and deceiving, but it's her fault; you've decided that this complete stranger (not only a stranger to you but a stranger to the OP) is "lacking...as an adult". This smacks of victim blaming and misogyny

All she knows about him will be the story he's chosen to tell her and the way he currently behaves around her. He is probably very good at hiding his true personality (in the short term) so even with training she will probably not think she has any reason to doubt him. He has probably either said very little about you (and his past in general) or has portrayed himself as a victim or at least a heartbroken devoted partner that you ditched for selfish reasons. At the moment, the way he behaves around her will probably back up his stories. Even if she tried to look in to his background, I imagine there is no official record of his behaviour (these men are very good at persuading their victims not to make any official report of their abuse). Unfortunately, I suspect she will see his true colours at some point.

I have a family member who is an abusive narcissist and seems to have a steady stream of intelligent, kind, pleasant women who want to be with him. For a short time he is very convincing as a man who is, if anything, too nice and gets walked over by everyone. He usually starts by becoming friendly with a woman and offering to help her with something, then she'll hear about him working 2 jobs and living in terrible accommodation so that he can afford to pay for nice things for his DC (who his awful ex tries to stop him from seeing and has a court order prohibiting him from having them overnight or introducing them to a new partner without her agreement, which she refuses to give). The truth is that he lives with his wife and DC but likes to have at least one OW so all of this is lies to explain why he can't take OW home, introduce her to his family or spend any money on her. Various family members have told the OW and the wife the truth but he has persuaded the OW that we are lying and wife is convinced that she could not manage without him so puts up with it.

Probably because abusive men can be really charming at the beginning and don't show their true colours until the much later once their victim is hooked...They have perfected the art of manipulation so are very skilled in deceiving people.

Then later on if the woman happens to have any issues with self-esteem and she is not secure enough in herself, she will allow the abuser to make her doubt herself and the blame her when any problem arise in the relationship. People who are too nice can sometimes struggle to assert themselves and set boundaries.

Is there any way you can warn this woman? No one deserves to blindly walk into a relationship with an abuser.

I work in mental health so I see people with personality disorders, mental health issues and criminal records every day. Yet I only recently realised that a friend of many years was in reality a deeply abusive man. He never gave me any reasons to doubt him until we started dating briefly recently which is when his real personality finally came out. I immediately ended the relationship, but I was fooled for a long time when we were just friend...

Men with dark triad personality traits have always done well with women (and in business) and will continue to do so. I think you're just hardwired to find them attractive and then it's human nature to overlook the red flags when we're attracted to someone.

@RandomMess

She may have gone into social work because she's a "rescuer" he's love bombing and subconsciously she's picking up needs rescuing?

This 100%. I met a lot of social workers at one time. At least 50% of them had as much trauma as their client base. A few were actively abusive. It's terrifying really.

Many social workers are brilliant but the ones I know come from VERY dysfunctional backgrounds. It's a reason many go into the profession. They're possibly still very good at their jobs (I have no way of knowing) but their own lives can be utterly chaotic. So they're definitely not infallable.

I have a family member who's husband was sending anonymous sexually inappropriate text messages to her nieces (young teenagers) and would phone their parents landlines and breathe heavily down the phone. This went on for months until the police were becoming involved. She found out it was her husband and covered it all up, cut off most of her family and had two DC with him . This woman also attempted suicide in her youth, definitely suffered with depression after her children were born and was horrible to them particularly her DD, who herself ended up self harming as a teen. Anyway long dramatic story short she went back to university when her DC got a little older and is now a social worker. So there you go!