Page 3 | She's lied on the divorce papers

PaterPower · 15/01/2022 07:38

If she’s citing (incorrectly or otherwise) that the reason for divorce is two years apart then there’s no damage to OP’s reputation.

When you went back to care for the DC in the old family home, were you sleeping with her? Or cohabiting in any meaningful way? If not, and if the only reason you were in the house at all was to keep things easier for your DC, then I don’t think it really interrupted the separation period.

If you were back in a physical relationship during those 8 months then that would be something else.

theworldsgonefeckingmad · 15/01/2022 07:39

If the divorce is finalised but not the financial matters (they are a separate thing that can only be started after decree nisi stage is reached) and she then remarried she bars herself from making financial claims against you. You can then get the clean break documents drawn up on a she keeps her stuff you keep yours basis.

Speak to a solicitor, many do a free half hour consultation if all she is interested in is divorce to remarry, give her the divorce in my opinion

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 15/01/2022 07:41

@LostDad1 A few months after that she ended up in mental health care and I moved back to the family home to care for our children and stayed for 8 months. Since the last time I left it's been 14 months.. It seems to add up unless you were back together when she was in a mental health care facility? There's a couple of months seperation, then 8 months in hospital then 14 months. It doesn't matter if you were in the family home, you can be seperated under one roof, it only matters if you were actually in a relationship in that time.

I queried with her the information and she went mad threatening if I didn't sign then the bailiffs would come and she'd take me for my savings and pension. I don't have any savings.. This is desperatio on her part, even if you had savings bailiffs can't just claim your things. It sounds like she's desperate to get this settled so she can remarry. I'd be seeing a solicitator to find out what you should do. Unless there's a legal reason not to I'd do what a poster above said about signing it but adding that financial consent and child arrangement orders must be completed before absolute is issued. Given your Ex mental health struggles I'd be looking to see if you can put a clause in the child arrangement orders that if either of you need to be hospitalized the other parent will do all care during that time. I wouldn't want them to end up being with step Dad 50/50 unless he's someone you know well and can trust to treat the DC well. Good luck with it all.

sassbott · 15/01/2022 07:57

Enough PP have explained the process to you.
When I filed, my Nisi came through very quickly. The decree absolute took much longer and this was down to financial mediation. Now technically you can get a decree absolute without financials completed, however no one would advise this.

Re child arrangements? They do not need to form part of the divorce process. That can be left away from the court. CSA can be calculated away from courts also (although this doesn’t apply to you due to 50/50 custody.) however if she has history of being difficult a solicitor may draft this into the agreement to circumvent issues further down the line.

In terms of a clean break/ spousal. You’re actually in a good position. If she is remarrying (do you have written proof of this somewhere/ is she cohabiting), that needs to be declared as part of the financials. Means zero spousal and likelihood of clean break is extremely high. The only unknown is how the marital assets will be divided. And this may be where you need to fight and say you have been the primary cared due to her mental health and as such the financial carve needs to reflect that. But I would expect 50/50 divvying of assets and if you’re lucky you may get 60% favour your way.

Original poster

LostDad1 · 15/01/2022 08:12

@sassbott

Enough PP have explained the process to you. When I filed, my Nisi came through very quickly. The decree absolute took much longer and this was down to financial mediation. Now technically you can get a decree absolute without financials completed, however no one would advise this.

Re child arrangements? They do not need to form part of the divorce process. That can be left away from the court. CSA can be calculated away from courts also (although this doesn’t apply to you due to 50/50 custody.) however if she has history of being difficult a solicitor may draft this into the agreement to circumvent issues further down the line.

In terms of a clean break/ spousal. You’re actually in a good position. If she is remarrying (do you have written proof of this somewhere/ is she cohabiting), that needs to be declared as part of the financials. Means zero spousal and likelihood of clean break is extremely high. The only unknown is how the marital assets will be divided. And this may be where you need to fight and say you have been the primary cared due to her mental health and as such the financial carve needs to reflect that. But I would expect 50/50 divvying of assets and if you’re lucky you may get 60% favour your way.

I have apologised if I'm being stupid! The stress isn't helping. I only got further confused when a PP said she could still get the absolute without a financial arrangement but now you are saying it wouldn't be advised. I'm assuming if I put on the paperwork I want the finances sorted before the absolute then that is what has to happen.

OP posts:

Original poster

LostDad1 · 15/01/2022 08:14

@sassbott

Enough PP have explained the process to you. When I filed, my Nisi came through very quickly. The decree absolute took much longer and this was down to financial mediation. Now technically you can get a decree absolute without financials completed, however no one would advise this.

Re child arrangements? They do not need to form part of the divorce process. That can be left away from the court. CSA can be calculated away from courts also (although this doesn’t apply to you due to 50/50 custody.) however if she has history of being difficult a solicitor may draft this into the agreement to circumvent issues further down the line.

In terms of a clean break/ spousal. You’re actually in a good position. If she is remarrying (do you have written proof of this somewhere/ is she cohabiting), that needs to be declared as part of the financials. Means zero spousal and likelihood of clean break is extremely high. The only unknown is how the marital assets will be divided. And this may be where you need to fight and say you have been the primary cared due to her mental health and as such the financial carve needs to reflect that. But I would expect 50/50 divvying of assets and if you’re lucky you may get 60% favour your way.

He moved in with her nearly a year ago. I'd imagine there is proof due to it being a council property and him running his business from there. It's not a secret and many messages refer to him living with her. That's one of the reasons she's being able to cope with the children by having support from him.

OP posts:

drpet49 · 15/01/2022 08:21

** If she wants the divorce finalised in the next few months then you have the upper hand. Speak to your solicitor and don’t hand anything to her until solicitor approved.
If it were me I’d say I’ve signed them, you can have them WHEN I receive in writing a solicitor-written, signed, witnessed document saying you’ll never come to me for another penny. Protect what assets you have.**

^This.

fernyflax · 15/01/2022 08:26

Just sign the papers. Just because you 'have the upper hand' in the situation doesn't mean you should use it. You have children. You will have to co parent with your ex wife for a long time. It's better to do that without animosity. And if that means signing the papers so she can re marry just do it. She's hardly going to sing your praises if you delay it just to be awkward. You children will pick up on that animosity. Why would you not make it easier for your children by just getting this divorce sorted quickly.

Positivelypatient · 15/01/2022 08:35

If you need advice, wikivorce is a very good website/forum. It really helped me to understand the process of divorce.

sassbott · 15/01/2022 08:37

Sorry @LostDad1, this is why posting before coffee is not a thing I should do. When I said Pp have explained process, it’s why I didn’t go into it in more detail as others had explained it. Then I went into the bits I thought were relevant.

Divorce is stressful, understanding the process is important. You are under no onus to sign and return anything without advice. And please do get it.

The only question I have is why you and her aren’t going via mediation? Costs a fraction of a solicitor, both pay equal costs per session (so prevent hefty solicitors bills piling up). And it’s a much lower conflict route. I used mediation, my exh was very tricky, my solicitor drew up the agreement. Went to a judge, signed off, done. Never saw the inside of family court (thank goodness).

sassbott · 15/01/2022 08:38

Oh, and mediators know the process inside out. They are impartial. And their job is to steer you through conflicts to get to a compromise. My mediator was incredible.

OrlandointheWilderness · 15/01/2022 08:55

The only reason it would have a bearing on anything is in the event of remarriage in a church setting. Some vicars won't allow it following a recent adultery.

Original poster

LostDad1 · 15/01/2022 09:05

@sassbott

Sorry *@LostDad1*, this is why posting before coffee is not a thing I should do. When I said Pp have explained process, it’s why I didn’t go into it in more detail as others had explained it. Then I went into the bits I thought were relevant.

Divorce is stressful, understanding the process is important. You are under no onus to sign and return anything without advice. And please do get it.

The only question I have is why you and her aren’t going via mediation? Costs a fraction of a solicitor, both pay equal costs per session (so prevent hefty solicitors bills piling up). And it’s a much lower conflict route. I used mediation, my exh was very tricky, my solicitor drew up the agreement. Went to a judge, signed off, done. Never saw the inside of family court (thank goodness).

She won't entertain the idea of mediation. We had social service involvement as a family beginning of last year and they also advised it and she still wouldn't engage. She is so difficult to speak to on any reasonable level. I've been asking since early last year for us to meet in a neutral setting to discuss things but she won't she said it's not good for her mental health. Now when it suits her she wants me to jump.

The whole thing infuriates me.

OP posts:

Original poster

LostDad1 · 15/01/2022 09:10

@fernyflax

Just sign the papers. Just because you 'have the upper hand' in the situation doesn't mean you should use it. You have children. You will have to co parent with your ex wife for a long time. It's better to do that without animosity. And if that means signing the papers so she can re marry just do it. She's hardly going to sing your praises if you delay it just to be awkward. You children will pick up on that animosity. Why would you not make it easier for your children by just getting this divorce sorted quickly.

I understand what you are saying and I wouldn't deliberately delay things. I was initially concerned about the false information and also still need to get the clean break sorted. Whether I do what she wants or not she will continue to be horrible and nasty. It's not me that's caused the bad feeling despite her unreasonable behaviour! I do my best to protect the children but I can't control what she says in front of them and unfortunately they do know much more than I'd ever have liked. She doesn't care about it when I've tried to broach it with her before. She can never do wrong. She can never hold her hands up.

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theworldsgonefeckingmad · 15/01/2022 09:26

@LostDad1 the reason solicitors advise sorting finances before decree absolute (but after decree nisi, only a separation agreement can be reached prior to divorce, courts only grant financial clean break orders after decree nisi) is because if one remarries then they are barred from making claims against the ex husband. If she went to a solicitor they would advise her to delay wedding until she gets half matrimonial assets, if you went they would likely say sign the papers and get to decree absolute as quickly as she wants to enable her to marry and bar herself from claims against your pension etc.

This is why the advice in here is different it depends on perspective. For you personally from what you have said, the quicker your wife applies for decree absolute the better but again, seek the advice of a family solicitor

Crumbs22 · 15/01/2022 09:50

Please find yourself a decent solicitor who you feel will fight your corner. It's quite common for the reasons on a divorce petition to be exaggerated or be lies simply because there are only 4? specific reasons on the form to choose from when submitting the petition so it's not like you can write up your own reasons. There's a time factor of if there's already been a separation of minimum 2 years then it just helps to further prove the marriage has irretrievably broken down. Your ex is simply trying to make sure there are more than enough reasons for the Courts to see your marriage is over and for the Decree Nisi to be granted asap. The rest of the divorce process, the financial agreement and custody arrangements are not at all affected by the reasons for the divorce being granted.

An important point in your situation is when you both get to fill in Form E to disclose all your finances, assets and pension for the financial agreement. One of the questions is if you are in another relationship. Most people do lie and say no. However the fact is that if your ex is co habitating and once remarried (after your divorce is final of course) then her legal position to claim financially from you significantly weakens. Perhaps that's why she's said she will not claim on your pension. Your solicitor will explain everything. Do not feel hurried into making any decisions or agreements until you feel you have all the info you need.

Thoosa · 15/01/2022 14:57

www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/family-law-solicitors/divorce/no-fault-divorce-uk-law-change/

If she files as soon as the “no fault” divorce laws come in April, you will have no option to contest it and the new petitions can be made final after 20 weeks (4 and a half months).

So she could easily have a new style divorce by the end of August regardless of what you think or do. That is the going to be the new reality.

Stop worrying about the exact length of the separation. If she wants a divorce this year, she will get one, under one system or the other.

Make a proposal for a financial agreement. Should be quite simple with low assets. Get help to do that if you can’t or won’t DIY it.

Then just focus on the children.

None of this is worth the stress.

Original poster

LostDad1 · 15/01/2022 17:50

Is it question 6 where I need to write yes to ensure they wait for the clean break agreement before the absolute?

In the document she has ticked no in the do you want to apply for a financial order.

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sassbott · 15/01/2022 20:22

@Thoosa that is incorrect advice. No one can determine the time it takes for divorce.

The only thing that has changed is the grounds to petition to divorce. If one party wants a financial order to be agreed pre a decree absolute, that will take as long as it takes. If that means 2 FDR’s and a final hearing? It could take years (at the end of more extreme contested cases).

@LostDad1 please stop asking randoms on the internet for advice and instruct a solicitor.

sassbott · 15/01/2022 20:23

I also take huge umbrage at a man being told to not make a big deal out of the financials. When time and again women on these boards are emphatically told to ensure they get decent advice and are not taken advantage of financially.

Complete double standards.

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 15/01/2022 20:37

It is irreleant to the divorce whether she lied or not. The judge couldn't care less.
My ex's petition was a load of lies. All I did was get my solicitor to note on the petition that I did not agree with it but was not going to contest it.
If you contest this divorce it will cost you thousands of pounds to do so.
it will not change any divorce settlement and judges take a dim view of contested divorces that go on forever.
However a consent order is crucial because they can come back endlessly and claim more money.
I think they should be compulsory personally but sadly they are not.
Your ex needs to uderstand they work two ways and then she may consider it.
If you lose your job or become disabled through an accident or whatever you could claim off her.
Maybe have this discussion.

FutureExH · 15/01/2022 21:13

If she's remarrying, then get rid of her quick! There will definitely never be any spousal maintenance plus if she takes any of your pension the silly cow is remarrying so quickly that you could have the settlement opened back up and shifted in your favour because her circumstances would have changed within a year of the divorce.

toobusytothink · 16/01/2022 09:20

@FutureExH is the “circumstances changing within a year” an actual thing? Interested because I think that’s exactly what my OH’s ex is going to do. She is making financial claims based on needing a home for her and 2 kids but pretty sure as soon as it is granted she is going to buy with her bf …

FutureExH · 16/01/2022 11:48

[quote toobusytothink]@FutureExH is the “circumstances changing within a year” an actual thing? Interested because I think that’s exactly what my OH’s ex is going to do. She is making financial claims based on needing a home for her and 2 kids but pretty sure as soon as it is granted she is going to buy with her bf …[/quote]
It can happen (Barder v Barder).

A particularly unfair outcome was reached in Critchell v Critchell in 2015 that should put non-residents right off Mesher Orders too. The original agreement was that Mrs Critchell would remain in the family home and Mr Critchell would have a charge of 45%. However, Mr Critchell's father died within a year and Mr Critchell inherited enough to pay off his mortgage on his new home.

Mrs Critchell - clearly a greedy cow with no sense of fairness - went to the High Court to get the whole house and unbelievably the courts agreed with her and Mr Critchell lost his 45% charge. He appealed but he lost at the Court of Appeal.

So effectively, yes, even with a consent order settlements can sometimes be reopened, though rare. Normally it would happen if assets have been hidden but if you get someone swearing blind that they are single and won't remarry to get some capitalised spousal maintenance, it could be possible to bring them back to court if they are lying.

AlwaysinaFlap · 16/01/2022 12:09

@LostDad1

Is it question 6 where I need to write yes to ensure they wait for the clean break agreement before the absolute?

In the document she has ticked no in the do you want to apply for a financial order.

What Form number is that? I can't recall that.