Why do so many men treat women poorly...or have I just been unlucky?

[ElectraBlue]

I am looking for a bit of hope I think. I had the awful realisation the other day that most of my life I have been around abusive men, one way or another.

It started in childhood with an mentally and physically abusive father, being bullied at school by boys (including inappropriate touching) and then went on to a series of not so successful dating/relationship experience with men who never really gave me any kind of real love and affection, only saw me as an opportunity for sex.

I think the last straw for me was that this week I broke up with the person I was seeing, who had been a close friend for over 6 years and apparently had a crush on me for the duration of our friendship.

Yet this man went from being a supportive and kind friend to turning into a different person when we started dating/having sex, taking me for granted and becoming quite manipulative. I broke up with him and he spent 3 days sending me horrid messages criticising pretty much everything about me...

I think this has just shattered my last bit of confidence in men. I mean if even someone who I considered a close friend and confident could not even treat me properly, who will?

At this point I am wondering if I should even bother dating again.

Has anyone else had repeat poor experiences with men? why on earth are so many of them so incapable of treating women correctly?

I should say that I am quite a confident person in my life so it is not like I let men walk all over me and I don't give my trust easily. But the fact that these bad experiences keep repeating themselves is soul-destroying...

Sadly, this has been my experience too. And when I finally thought I’d met someone different, they ended up being just the same. I’ve realised that for me, I just had unhealthy boundaries that stemmed from my experiences in childhood. I needed to raise my standards and correct my expectations of how I deserved to be treated.

You were abused. So now your radar is all off. You won’t spot red flags. You will be attracted to the familiar (abusive) men
You need to get therapy to stop this pattern

That’s not to say any of this is your fault
Those men are disgusting and any way they treat you is their fault. But you probably wouldn benefit from some professional help with this.
Sorry you’ve has such rubbish experiences op!

I have to say I’ve only ever had terrible experiences with men, it’s one of the reasons I’ve been single for 5 years. Every experience I’ve had with them has been horrible. I am a bit envious of people that meet the one young and marry (so those who marry their childhood sweet heart type thing!) and don’t have to go through all the rubbish the rest of us do!

When I was 18, I had never had a boyfriend before and wrote a list of expectations that my future boyfriend had to meet. It went on for pages and had 20 salient points

I screened all the men I met; i asked too many questions. I found DH at 21. We are from different countries (studying at the same university in London). I knew he was the one(most men failed half or 90% of the critera) so we married when we graduated. We are still very happy together 7 years on. Not a 50 year marriage yet, but he is a very good DH- does lots of housework, works really hard, loving, considerate, faithful. we have been through thick and thin.

As a PP wrote, maybe your radar is off. maybe write a list of qualities that you value, other PP can add onto it. Refer to it if you meet any men you are attracted. Ask your mutual friends whether he objectively meets the criteria. Then if he fulfils every single one of the criteria, then maybe you can consider entering into a relationship.

I read an excellent arti

Sounds like you’ve fallen into a pattern whilst being abused by a partner isn’t ever really ok it could be useful to do some counselling either talking therapy or CBT before trying another relationship. There are lots of good men out there, don’t let the ones you’ve had to deal with so far let you think otherwise!

Best thing you can do is consistently throughout life ,refresh your knowledge on red flags.

Also, be aware that a man who fancies you is never your friend. If you find out they fancy you and you don't feel the same and both want the same thing moving forwards, end the friendship. Always.

You missed what others would not, which is that a guy who hangs around for 6 years having feelings for someone, is not a man with a healthy mind. That was a red flag, most healthy men would give up after a few weeks, and certainly not pretend to be platonic friends for such a long time, that's hanging around for the wrong reasons.

To a degree I think it’s their ingrained misogyny. We live under patriarchy. Men learn early that being like women or being compared to women is undesirable. That women’s likes and interests are amusing or mindless.

Women’s work (or work predominantly done by women) is devalued and underpaid or not paid at all. Women’s bodies are objectified, assaulted, not cared for even adequately during pregnancy, childbirth and in many other health care settings.

So many men want a wife, children and a warm and comfortable home but also want to spend the majority of their free time with male friends or on hobbies. That should be telling us something.

Men as a group are dangerous to women and do not respect women. Not when you really dig down, not when you over hear some of their conversations and really observe how women are treated by men.

More women than ever are starting to say no to the traditional set up and refusing to make the pursuit of a relationship with a man the centre of their world and the measure of their success and desirability. Yes, some men are great. There are family relationships, romantic involvements with dates and friendships and sexual experiences to be enjoyed, and no, not all women regret giving their lives and their bodies entirely to other people.

Some women have long and fulfilling relationships with men but it doesn’t feel like a lot of women do. It feels like there is a lot of anger, sadness, disappointment and waste. OP I suppose I’m saying you’re not unlucky exactly. It’s more that the experiences you describe are very difficult to avoid as a woman having relationships with men.

I think I’d agree with @Lookingoutside - great post

I believe it stems from women and girls being conditioned to be nice.

So if you do things to please others you might be over ruling your gut instinct.

I have never been badly treated by any male because I have very high standards and I ways have.

I am amazed at what my female friends put up with. It has nothing to do with intelligence either, some of my closest friends are professionals and put up with horrendous behaviour.

When I was young I also had a list of qualities I wanted in a man and I didn't deviate from this list, even though it took me until my 30s to find someone of that calibre

We have now been married for nearly 30 years. Before you marry or live with someone ask who is going to put the bins out? Do laundry? Cooking? If you have a child are you dividing up night times ? Be practical and make sure there is give and take and Never take take take from one, give give give from another.

If your expectations are low you can expect to be treated like a doormat .

Lookingoutside
Well said excellent post

OP, I believe far too many of them don't really think of us as people but rather an object that exists for their benefit.

Like your friend of 6 years. He was never a friend.He just hung around waiting for his chance. That level of deceptiveness is so disturbing but you hear about it over and over.

I often wonder if they are all on a scale of dark triad personality, driven by their sex drive? So ones low on that scale are probably the ones you could have a relationship with and not be treated as a servant.
As they go up the scale, it gets worse with how deceptive, manipulative, and cruel they can be. The ones on the far right would be the type who'd end up in prison.

I also believe the fairy tale of happily ever after has been sold to us from childhood, that somehow we'll find the perfect love. Funny how it must come from the ones least likely to love in the way we'd want it.

Just some rambling thoughts

I agree with @Opentooffers

Excellent post by @Lookingoutside

And @Tarne, yes, yes women and girls are conditioned to be nice.

Also @RantyAunty, I like your rambling thoughts !

I often wonder if they are all on a scale of dark triad personality, driven by their sex drive? So ones low on that scale are probably the ones you could have a relationship with and not be treated as a servant.
As they go up the scale, it gets worse with how deceptive, manipulative, and cruel they can be

A bit like politics, a sliding scale of left wing, middle ground and far right on the sliding scale of men.

@Lookingoutside excellent post. I think you have summed it up perfectly.

@Lookingoutside

What a magnificent post!

@Tarne I do appreciate your feedback but it is not that simple though to suggest this is because of what something women do...

Having 'high standards' would have done nothing to prevent being targeted by my father or assaulted by male bullies at school...

I am not a doormat in life at all. Which is why I dumped the last guy as soon as I saw poor behaviour.

My point was that I despair at how so many men seem to be almost 'wired' that way. That they see nothing wrong with treating women in such ways and it seems to struggle see them as actual human beings worth of love and care.

I have met some decent guys too. Most were great family men who had been married young with the same partner for a long time and were very supportive of them. So I know such men do exist, they just seem to be in short supplies...

Really interesting how people have commented on the friendship aspect. This would make sense that this man was just hanging around waiting for a chance and taking what he could get in the meantime. Really odd though that someone would wait that long then immediately start messing it up...but as people said as well he was probably a manipulative person all along.

Thank you everyone for all your insightful comments so far!

Hope lies in letting go of this question. It's not in finding an answer to why people treating each other badly. It doesn't matter why. Everyone has their own reason, and there's many reasons, for some individuals.

Hope is in having faith in your ability to leave at the first sign of trouble. That's how to ensure that there's no crap in your life. Not in the understanding of why the crap exists. Having faith in the fact that you've got your own back means that you're always protected.

Your confidence in crappy relationships has been shattered. Keep dumping them until you find one you don't want to dump. That's how it works for everybody. It's the same for men and women (I had the same view of women for a long time), and it doesn't need an explanation or a generalisation. Needing an explanation focuses on your lack of understanding, but the truth is, nobody understands. And nobody needs to.

Honestly? The majority of men I've met in my life were decent, good men. Not perfect by any means, but definitely not abusive. Such has been the experience of most of my female friends (except for a few). I did meet one man once who ended up being more than a friend but I did not want him as a partner, if you get what I mean. He was infatuated with me to the extreme, and very hurt that I did not feel the same way. He did become abusive, but I honestly saw it coming from a mile away. And I put up with four months of madness because I was lonely and I enjoyed the attention. It's sad to say this, but the truth. That has been the only time I became intertwined with a man like that though, and his behaviour from the start was really strange to me, I wasn't used to men like that.

I do agree with what others said that oftentimes we struggle to set boundaries when we've been through trauma. That is of course not our fault, but still something we have to take charge of and handle ourselves if we wish to have healthy relationships.

I also think women have to learn to stand up for ourselves. Again, not our fault that people are assholes, but still our responsibility to protect ourselves from them. I know way too many women who put up with out of line behaviour, like co-workers sending them dirty messages and inviting them over to their bedrooms even though the woman never initiated a sexual relationship. I think this subtly builds up over time and it's up to us to stop it at the very beginning. If you don't show self-respect, sadly a lot of people won't respect you. Having to be nice, as a pp mentioned, is probably one of the culprits here, but again that is due to our education. I'm not a nice girl, I've never been a nice girl. This doesn't mean I'm rude or unpleasant, but I'm also not 'nice'. It's not how I've been brought up.

@Lookingoutside

To a degree I think it’s their ingrained misogyny. We live under patriarchy. Men learn early that being like women or being compared to women is undesirable. That women’s likes and interests are amusing or mindless.

Women’s work (or work predominantly done by women) is devalued and underpaid or not paid at all. Women’s bodies are objectified, assaulted, not cared for even adequately during pregnancy, childbirth and in many other health care settings.

So many men want a wife, children and a warm and comfortable home but also want to spend the majority of their free time with male friends or on hobbies. That should be telling us something.

Men as a group are dangerous to women and do not respect women. Not when you really dig down, not when you over hear some of their conversations and really observe how women are treated by men.

More women than ever are starting to say no to the traditional set up and refusing to make the pursuit of a relationship with a man the centre of their world and the measure of their success and desirability. Yes, some men are great. There are family relationships, romantic involvements with dates and friendships and sexual experiences to be enjoyed, and no, not all women regret giving their lives and their bodies entirely to other people.

Some women have long and fulfilling relationships with men but it doesn’t feel like a lot of women do. It feels like there is a lot of anger, sadness, disappointment and waste. OP I suppose I’m saying you’re not unlucky exactly. It’s more that the experiences you describe are very difficult to avoid as a woman having relationships with men.

THIS

If I had my time over again think I would chose to be men free whatever form that would come in. I’m very happily married so this isn’t a slur on my husband at all but I do know if we split up I’d never date again.

Like the other pp I too wrote a list of qualities I wanted in a partner and ruthlessly binned off anybody who didn’t for my criteria. I was young cocky attractive and not cowed by patriarchy at that point.

The reason I was so fussy was is been raised by an abusive bastard and had a decade long relationship with a much older manipulative alcoholic.

But it’s much easier to be ruthless and confident about what you need when you’re younger!

In my lifetime experience (and this iswith Guys now in the 56 to 62 age bracket) you are very very lucky if you get a guy who doesn’t expect you to be a combination of housekeeper, psychotherapist , PA to him and his family and hooker on tap . It gets wearing and I’ve found so many who can’t take the slightest criticism/comment either without getting funny. These things aren’t always there at the beginning but they seem to creep up over the years. I’m sure there are many men out there who aren’t like this- but I have clearly not met them. At 60 I have to admit I am very disillusioned with a lot of men-

Lots and lots of men hate women.
They don’t view as fully humans.

I had the same view of women for a long time, after choosing a lot of relationships that were bad for me.

It's easy to blame 'men'. It makes more sense to look at the responsibility of an individual to treat you correctly. Then, instead of making excuses for some aspects of poor behaviour because 'That's what men are like', all the disrespectful people will end up single.

Generalising looks backwards, because it looks for patterns. Expecting people to take responsibility for treating you well, and discarding them if they don't, looks forwards, and ensures that everyone who gets a foothold in your future, male or female, will be good for you.

@Lookingoutside great post

There is a reason that, on average, married men are happier than single men, while single women are happier than married women. It's the same reason that girls do better on average in single sex schools while boys do better with the civilising influence of girls at school.

I wish the world wasn't this way, but the older I get the more I recognise it for what it is.

I've only ever been treated poorly by virtually all the men I've had dealings with. My father was and still is a misogynist bully, I ended up marrying someone very similar. Most other males in my family seem to tolerate women rather than genuinely enjoy their company. Most men have treated me with disdain or have been inappropriate with their behaviour.

My friend beautiful solvent funny entertaining who is 70 most of her friends are single as they say you end up being a nurse or a purse 😂