Why do so many men treat women poorly...or have I just been unlucky?

[ElectraBlue]

I am looking for a bit of hope I think. I had the awful realisation the other day that most of my life I have been around abusive men, one way or another.

It started in childhood with an mentally and physically abusive father, being bullied at school by boys (including inappropriate touching) and then went on to a series of not so successful dating/relationship experience with men who never really gave me any kind of real love and affection, only saw me as an opportunity for sex.

I think the last straw for me was that this week I broke up with the person I was seeing, who had been a close friend for over 6 years and apparently had a crush on me for the duration of our friendship.

Yet this man went from being a supportive and kind friend to turning into a different person when we started dating/having sex, taking me for granted and becoming quite manipulative. I broke up with him and he spent 3 days sending me horrid messages criticising pretty much everything about me...

I think this has just shattered my last bit of confidence in men. I mean if even someone who I considered a close friend and confident could not even treat me properly, who will?

At this point I am wondering if I should even bother dating again.

Has anyone else had repeat poor experiences with men? why on earth are so many of them so incapable of treating women correctly?

I should say that I am quite a confident person in my life so it is not like I let men walk all over me and I don't give my trust easily. But the fact that these bad experiences keep repeating themselves is soul-destroying...

Thefoundation

You oversimplify.

The way men treat and view women
and how some women might treat and view women just can’t be compared.

@headunderthewater

Thefoundation

You oversimplify.

The way men treat and view women
and how some women might treat and view women just can’t be compared.

Exactly. It is totally different and not really what is being discussed here.

@TheFoundation

I had the same view of women for a long time, after choosing a lot of relationships that were bad for me.

It's easy to blame 'men'. It makes more sense to look at the responsibility of an individual to treat you correctly. Then, instead of making excuses for some aspects of poor behaviour because 'That's what men are like', all the disrespectful people will end up single.

Generalising looks backwards, because it looks for patterns. Expecting people to take responsibility for treating you well, and discarding them if they don't, looks forwards, and ensures that everyone who gets a foothold in your future, male or female, will be good for you.

You may have personally come to this conclusion about women but your reasons will not include living in a world where women routinely rape and murder men , where men are most likely to be assaulted by women in their lives or where men are bodies are used to sell product after product You also don’t live in a world where mens hobbies and interest and opinions are seen are silly and trivial You don’t live in a world where violent porn showing men being hurt excites women and is seen as normal You simply don’t like in a world where women have the power So any assumptions you make will be coming purely from the few women you know whereas women open their eyes at birth and look around to a world where many men basically don’t like them a lot , See them as inferior and as sexual objects. It’s east for men to say ‘ it’s generalising ‘ and yes it is generalising when men use their personal experiences with a handful of women to make conclusions but when women say hey the world is not the same for women as for men and we are not privy to the same privlidge , that’s not generalising

@Picklerose

I'm a woman.

I'm not saying that any of what you said isn't true. I'm talking about helpful ways to view it. If a man treats you like crap because that's how men are raised, or if a man treats you like crap because he's horrible, give him personal responsibility. It's his personal responsibility to fix his own behaviour. Generalising gives the responsibility to men in general. Men in general aren't going to sort out the behaviour of an individual man, but if he gets dumped by every woman he has a relationship with for being irresponsible with their feelings, he might be more likely to have a look at himself.

@headunderthewater

Thefoundation

You oversimplify.

The way men treat and view women
and how some women might treat and view women just can’t be compared.

I'm not saying they can. I'm saying it's easy to generalise, when every individual is responsible for their actions.

You are oversimplifying, in fact.

[quote TheFoundation]@Picklerose

I'm a woman.

I'm not saying that any of what you said isn't true. I'm talking about helpful ways to view it. If a man treats you like crap because that's how men are raised, or if a man treats you like crap because he's horrible, give him personal responsibility. It's his personal responsibility to fix his own behaviour. Generalising gives the responsibility to men in general. Men in general aren't going to sort out the behaviour of an individual man, but if he gets dumped by every woman he has a relationship with for being irresponsible with their feelings, he might be more likely to have a look at himself.[/quote]
I think most women are able to see and give the respinsikbility to the individual man AND the white large group of men who are behaving this way
I think ti say it’s purely an individual deviation in some men absolutely negates and ignores that it’s not just that , it’s a systemic issue within much of masculinity that needs to be addressed by individual men AND men as a whole / male culture .
So let’s stop pretending this is about individual men when it’s about society culture mysogyny patriarchy and a whole lot more . Sure then we see individuals act out but that will continue to happen until the problem itself is acknowledged and addressed
And no men will not always get dumped , their are women who come from backgrounds of abuse who have poor boundaries, their are those with limited resources physically emotionally or whatever
Men as a whole are the ONLY ones who can change themselves .

@TheFoundation
‘I’m not saying they can. I'm saying it's easy to generalise, when every individual is responsible for their actions.

You are oversimplifying, in fact.’

So who do you think is responsible for the mysogyny that exists today . The fact that so few women run top corporations , the fact women are still doing most of the unpaid labour even when working outside the home , all the violence against women
Who is this ‘ individual man.’ Who needs to take responsibility ? I want his name .

Men always have and still do hold the power

@Picklerose

Nobody's pretending anything. For each individual, it is important to turn away those who disrespect them. All the best to you, tackling 'men as a whole'. It's a bit like trying to teach 'humans' to be nicer. Admirable goal, but considerably more realistic to deal with the ones you actually come across.

Who is this ‘ individual man.’ Who needs to take responsibility ? I want his name

Haha! So firmly missing the point! Good luck in your battle.

It could just be bad luck. But even if we say that 20% of men are abusive (massive overestimate), then the probability of dating 2 abusive men in a row is 0.2*0.2 = 0.04, or 4%. So reasonably unlikely.

So in addition to putting it down to bad luck, it's also worth examining those men to ask, what made you consider them as partners to begin with? What was it about these men that compelled you to approach them?

Freedom programme
And read ‘women who love too much’

In simple terms , the abuse means you always go for and are attracted to the bad ones
You don’t even realise it probably
It’s a habit you can break though x

This has been my experience in all my serious relationships

I hate that idea of what I might be putting out there or why I’m picking these men , firstly these men are never like it at the start or they’d never manage to get into a relationship

Secondly my exes were all very different people , different backgrounds , looks , jobs , hobbies , very different personality wise however all had one thing in common ended up treating me like shit 👍

I’ve been thinking a lot about how misogyny controls and warps our lives and sexual lives.

@pinchofvom

‘ f I had my time over again think I would chose to be men free whatever form that would come in. I’m very happily married so this isn’t a slur on my husband at all but I do know if we split up I’d never date again.

Like the other pp I too wrote a list of qualities I wanted in a partner and ruthlessly binned off anybody who didn’t for my criteria. I was young cocky attractive and not cowed by patriarchy at that point.

The reason I was so fussy was is been raised by an abusive bastard and had a decade long relationship with a much older manipulative alcoholic.

But it’s much easier to be ruthless and confident about what you need when you’re younger!’

This is a strategy responding to many crappy men treating us badly. So it’s still one shaped by patriarchy.

I didn’t meet my now DH until I was in my 30s either.

But i didn’t WANT to spend my 20s single, lonely and short of sex. That’s what happened, but it was very very far from my choice.

I was also confident in my worth at 20, I was a grade A student and did some a part time modelling.

Many men pursued me sexually but didn’t want / have the guts to be my boyfriend.

It’s only recently I’ve considered that high achieving and good looking men generally and can easily have a string of lovely girlfriends and can settled down when they choose. My brother did.

I was high achieving and good looking but single / dating life was gruelling and awful.

The only difference between us is he’s male and I’m female.

Now I’m in my 40s I see much more clearly how stunted most men are by the patriarchy. How immature and unknowing and cowardly they are.

Men are taught they are entitled to our sexual favour, kindness, emotional support and domestic service. While also getting to always feel superior to us (so best not be too clever / successful!) and only having to do /be the bare minimum to get these things.

Men are taught to externalise and /or minimise their feelings and blame or use women to serve their needs.

Many dads treat their daughter this way which of course sets so many of us up to accept crappy behaviour from potential romantic and sexual partners.

Now I have a son I also think boys are still socialised to repress their emotions. At four DS is so warm and affectionate and emotionally open by my god people want to tell me I shouldn’t comfort him, or sleep next to him, that he’s a big boy if he doesn’t cry.

I think most of us have no idea what a fulfilling love and sexual life could be if we grew up and lived in a truly equal society that didn’t impose gender tropes from the moment we are born.

@TheFoundation

Who is this ‘ individual man.’ Who needs to take responsibility ? I want his name

Haha! So firmly missing the point! Good luck in your battle.

Sure and I think your firmly missing the mysogyny and the fact that men won’t change until society does Good luck with changing men one at a time If you can only look as far as your oen individual relationships with men and can’t se ethe bigger picture women here ( and all over the world are talking about ) then I think there’s a huge issue

I can’t help but wonder why one would think that women were able to fight hard for social change through the last century but somehow men can’t or should not have any resonsibikty for doing the same … and why individual men and men as a group can be called to instigate change … strange

@greasyshoes

It could just be bad luck. But even if we say that 20% of men are abusive (massive overestimate), then the probability of dating 2 abusive men in a row is 0.2*0.2 = 0.04, or 4%. So reasonably unlikely.

So in addition to putting it down to bad luck, it's also worth examining those men to ask, what made you consider them as partners to begin with? What was it about these men that compelled you to approach them?

It depends how you define abuse There are forms of degradation that may not be called ‘ abuse ‘ but are wrong Delends if you believe less than twenty percent of men see women as inferior , do less than 50 percent child reading and chores and are generally treating women like sexual objects to be used Those things wouldn’t be classed as abuse by Many but are part of the problem

It’s only recently I’ve considered that high achieving and good looking men generally and can easily have a string of lovely girlfriends and can settled down when they choose. My brother did.

Have you also considered that the overwhelming majority of men are ugly?

@greasyshoes

It’s only recently I’ve considered that high achieving and good looking men generally and can easily have a string of lovely girlfriends and can settled down when they choose. My brother did.

Have you also considered that the overwhelming majority of men are ugly?

Omg this cracked me up But then again even the ugly ones get points for getting older and ‘wiser ‘ that women don’t get . We get shit on because of age whilst men apparently get better with age Which is of course - bullshit

@Lookingoutside this says it all.

We get shit on because of age whilst men apparently get better with age

The thing is though, the majority of women are good-looking to begin with, whereas the majority of men aren't. So even if women do become less attractive with age, they start with a much higher baseline.

In every age group, there are far more attractive women than attractive men. To my knowledge, on dating apps, it's men having to compete for women, not the other way round.

@greasyshoes ha! Yes. Didn’t stop plenty of the hitting on me and then turning (sometimes viciously) abusive when I politely declined.

My point was, I’ve only recently realised how much easier it would have been to conduct a love life of my choosing if I were male with a similar set of attributes.

It took me ages to come to terms with the lack of autonomy, which I have and had in every other area of my life.

Crikeyalmighty
In my lifetime experience (and this is with guys now in the 56 to 62 age bracket) you are very very lucky if you get a guy who doesn’t expect you to be a combination of housekeeper, psychotherapist , PA to him and his family and hooker on tap.

@Crikeyalmighty Sadly, I’ve noticed this too.

@Catsstillrock

My point was, I’ve only recently realised how much easier it would have been to conduct a love life of my choosing if I were male with a similar set of attributes.

But you are missing the point that the overwhelming majority of men are not attractive, and don't have the luxury of having a string of girlfriends. Most men either stick to monogamous relationships, or remain single.

On the other hand, most women are at least somewhat attractive and will easily get matches on dating apps.

@greasyshoes no I know that. It’s a different point though.

Women under 40 get plenty of attention on dating apps. But as the OP says a lot of that attention and resulting relationships are… disrespectful and emotionally cowardly / immature.

The volume of messages you get as a youthful woman on a dating site reveals the lack of emotional maturity of many men - they are pinging everyone and anyone that meets a narrow range of physical attributes and applying no consideration to who might be a good match for them (and whether they are worthy of her) at all.

Women under 40 get plenty of attention on dating apps.

And over 40.

The volume of messages you get as a youthful woman on a dating site reveals the lack of emotional maturity of many men - they are pinging everyone and anyone that meets a narrow range of physical attributes and applying no consideration to who might be a good match for them (and whether they are worthy of her) at all.

Those men are casting their net as wide as possible because they know only a tiny minority of women are going to speak to them, even fewer will meet them, and fewer still will want a relationship. If they were to focus on a few women, then they would never have a relationship. I wouldn't say that's an indication of emotional immaturity.

As a pp said we live in their world. Many men are good and decent but even they have no fucking clue what it's like and that skews everything.