To be so hurt by this? (DP, TTC)

[SarahAndQuack]

DP and I are two women. We have a DD who is DP's biological daughter; when we discussed TTC I was always very clear that I would like to try to get pregnant too. DP is older, and I have a history of miscarriage, so it made sense for her to try first.

DP was frankly traumatised by pregnancy/childbirth. Partly because she had a rough time; partly because she was very unprepared for it and it came as a huge shock.

I have since tried with no success, and then covid happened and we put plans on hold. I have explained to DP many, many times that I would really appreciate her emotional and practical support. When she was trying, I did most of the admin with the clinic (because this can be stressful). When I first tried, all the admin fell to me again. So this time, I explained, I really wanted her support and help. It means a lot to me because (as you would imagine given the miscarriages - which were during a previous relationship - and the failed treatments), I now find the whole process quite stressful and upsetting.

Every time we discuss this, DP says yes, fine, she will do it, and yes, she definitely wants me to get pregnant. Then she does nothing. For example, I had to ask her about twenty times to get in touch with the clinic about something. Then I had to ask her over and over to write and print a letter we need to send. That letter is dated 22nd December and is still sitting on the table waiting for her to put it in the post.

I find it so hurtful. I have said over and over that, to me, it comes across as her not wanting another child, and/or not wanting me to have a child. She insists it is not, then continues to make no effort.

It's genuinely made me feel like crying today - I just don't know how to get through to her that it's really hurtful. I know she finds admin tedious (don't we all?), but I hate it.

(Btw, I didn't NC so if you know me please be discreet; also, I'm going to pop out in a few minutes because I want to do some deep breathing and calm down! So I won't reply straight off. I hope that is ok.)

I agree- it's frustrating, but ultimately you need to decide what you want the outcome to be. You want to get pregnant. To do this the admin needs doing so maybe in this situation to make forward movements you are going to have to do it. Hopefully she will support you in different ways.

Unless admin is something she really does struggle with, I would question whether she really does want another baby. It seems like she's stalling.

I agree it does sound like she's not sure she really does want another baby... is she significantly older and feels like she doesn't want to start again with a new baby? Could you getting pregnant remind her of what a horribly shite time she had during her own? You're not wrong to be hurt but maybe you need to sit down and have a serious getting-to-the-bottom-of-it talk.

Thanks very much for replying. @sleepyhoglet, YY, I know what you mean, but I also don't want to just push it to the side as if it doesn't matter how we have a baby just so long as we do, you know?

@VimFuego101, well, she doesn't love admin, but who does? She keeps insisting she isn't stalling and intends to do it, but I think deep down she is hoping I will just take over and sort it all so she won't have to bother.

@Puddington - she's three years older. I think she absolutely worries that it will bring up the horrible time she had. We have had so many 'serious talks' - but she is really not a natural talker and it's very hard to get to the bottom of anything emotional with her. I am not entirely sure she would even have figured out to herself why she's doing it.

Don't guess and wonder. Ask her why. Don't suggest why, wait for her to explain.

"You said you'd do the paperwork. Why haven't you?" Then wait for an answer.

"This needs to be Friday. Are you going to do it or not?" Then wait for the answer.

Don't give her wriggle room, or excuses, or get side tracked into an involved conversation. Keep it really plain. It will help her identify what the block is.

She may just be a bit idle and hope you'll do it. She may be genuinely overwhelmed with other stressful tasks and unable to give it head space. She may be unsure what she wants. You won't know unless you wait for her to explain.

@picklemewalnuts - I have done that. (Are you a counsellor? This is exactly what our counsellor got us to do!).

When I do ask, she will immediately say 'oh, no, sorry, I didn't did I?!' or 'oh, no, I was about to do it!' then she will brush it off. If I eventually say that I find it very hurtful and upsetting, she will agree, but again, she won't go any deeper.

She's capable of doing it (as in, she's not so busy she couldn't), and she does have a long-standing pattern of avoiding doing things if she hopes I'll do them instead (I'm sure we're all like this to an extent). What worries me, as you say, is the feeling that deep down she may be much more unsure than she will admit. I don't know what to do about that!

I mean, sure, it'd be great to get pregnant but it would be awful to do it and then find it suddenly all came to a head for her and she did feel traumatised or did suddenly want to tell me it's too scary for her.

That's really tough. I think, in that case, I'd go for it. I'd do it myself if I had to, tell her she owes me big time and that I'll be expecting 5 star treatment... it's ok to have an unequal division of labour, as long as it's balanced in some indefinable way that makes sense to you both! Maybe one person does lots and lots of boring jobs, while the other only deals with stressful, crisis ones.

Ultimately if she really, really wants this then she'll (eventually) step up if you don't. But she may be a slightly lazy partner who'll let you do all the heavy lifting. You may feel resentful and frustrated.

So be prepared to cope alone. Life is full of risks.

That's really helpful, thank you. It's hugely useful that you're not saying I'm a terrible selfish person to even consider a baby when I am worried DP may be traumatised, or when I'm worried DP may be stalling because she's conflicted about it. And I think I only properly realised that I had been worrying about that when I read your post! I think if it did turn out DP was literally just being lazy that actually wouldn't bother me particularly.

How do you think she'd react if you said things will only progress if she shoulders part of the burden?

There's a lot she could be worried about that's making her delay things- worried about how she'll cope when the baby is there, worried you will have a rough time with pregnancy and birth, worried about how her DD will cope, will she still be treated the same etc.

I'd be a bit worried she won't pull her weight with a newborn- though I have to admit I'd happily ignore admin and not neglect my child!

I have said so, repeatedly. This is in large part why we've not tried much over the last few years - covid was part of it, but not the whole.

I'm sure she is worried about our DD. But I find that a bit hurtful too, TBH. Anyone who knows me would know how much I love DD - I'm a ridiculously, unashamedly doting mother (because it took such a long time to get to her, I suppose! But also because she is, frankly, the best thing in the world).

I dunno how she'd be with a newborn. She found the newborn stage very, very, very hard. It doesn't suit her personality, for starters, so I think even if she'd not had a rough labour (which she did), it would have been hard.

I think I'm quite like your partner in that I hated the newborn stage and I don't want a second child exactly to avoid it.

And whilst I get that you feel upset by it, it's natural for her to worry about your DD, I don't think it should be treated as a criticism to how you behave with her.

And also, she probably remembers how hard she found it last time and she's worried you could be the same this time, only it will impact your eldest.

It sounds like she doesn't really want another child.

@CheshireChat

I think I'm quite like your partner in that I hated the newborn stage and I don't want a second child exactly to avoid it.

And whilst I get that you feel upset by it, it's natural for her to worry about your DD, I don't think it should be treated as a criticism to how you behave with her.

And also, she probably remembers how hard she found it last time and she's worried you could be the same this time, only it will impact your eldest.

YY, I agree it's natural to worry about DD. I do myself, because there is a bit of me that worries I might not love another child as much as the first. I'm about 99% sure that isn't the case, but I know it's a really common worry.

I hadn't thought about her thinking me having a bad time would impact on DD, I must talk to her about that.

Its possible that her own experiences traumatised her to the extent that even the admin, the name of the clinic, arrangements for procedures triggers her. She may not even consciously recognise it, but just can't seem to bring herself to deal with it. I'm a bit like this with anything bank related, after a horrendous time financially some years ago. Even though its long in the past, and everything is fine now, dealing with my bank still makes feel a little bit sick and I avoid it where I can.

I don't think so, because that side of the process was actually quite nice and exciting - she got pregnant very quickly and easily, and it was a happy time. Also, it's a different clinic and slightly different procedures (IVF vs IUI). I mean, it's possible, but frankly I think it's not that, and I also feel (and have said to her) hurt that for me it is pretty upsetting to deal with, and I could do with the support.

I agree that 5128gap's explanation may be possible. I have an irrational hatred of Paypal, because I was trying to sort out a minor Paypal issue at the same time that something much more stressful was happening in my life. And I still link the two and feel stressed when someone wants me to pay by Paypal, even though I know I'm being ridiculous.

However, it could also be possible that she doesn't really want another baby and doesn't have the heart to tell you that. Or that she's just being lazy and forgetful.

I agree with picklemewalnuts - I would say to her "OK, I'll take on the admin as you clearly dislike it, but only if you a) reassure me again that you really do want a baby and b) take on this other task that I really hate doing".

Every time we've discussed it, she assures me she really does want another baby. And TBH, the thing is, I really actually want her to do this task. I'm finding it really upsetting and she knows that.

I think just do the admin. The reality is that this time it’s going to be different to last time. Sometimes you just want a bit more of a gap between kids and it might be that she has it in the back of her mind. But unless she tells you something you have to assume she is being lazy and unhelpful.

But don’t hold it against her. Just get things started so you can start trying. She has to tell you if there is a problem.

Honestly in an ideal world I'd say stick this one out and don't take over, but at the end of the day it'll be you that is sad and loses out the most if she doesn't post the letter etc etc, so I'd just do it.

She says she wants another child, she'd happy for you to try to have a baby, I think just stop tiptoeing around her feelings as she sure as heck isn't doing that for yours!

I'd just get on with it myself and be absolutely furious because in 10 years you won't care who posted the letter but you WILL obviously care if you've been able to have another child and give birth etc yourself, given that's something you want to do.

Your partner sounds quite withdrawn but obviously you love her and know her very well, you'll know how to spell out to her what you're doing and how upset you are that she's not taking on her part of the bargain.

I find the old "when you don't do X, I feel Y" can work, and when she listens to that - take it to the next level in case she doesn't have the wit to work it out for herself. E.g. "when you can't even bother to stick a letter in the post to try and further our plans of having another child, it makes me feel really upset and as if I'm in this on my own. When you were going through this process I did all this for you so you could concentrate on your health and the physical process, and the fact that you won't do the same for me makes me feel less valued. Why won't you do this for me when I did it for you?"

@SarahAndQuack

Every time we've discussed it, she assures me she really does want another baby. And TBH, the thing is, I really actually want her to do this task. I'm finding it really upsetting and she knows that.

And yet everything she DOES tells you she absolutely doesn't.

@SarahAndQuack

Every time we've discussed it, she assures me she really does want another baby. And TBH, the thing is, I really actually want her to do this task. I'm finding it really upsetting and she knows that.

Crosspost with this - I'd sit down with her and suggest you do it together. Harder than not having to do it, but easier than doing it on your own which is the alternative. If you get upset doing it, she'll see.

In all honesty, I can't imagine someone else doing the admin for my own ivf. It would feel wrong to me and I would want to have those conversations myself, be on top of the drugs, appointments etc myself. (And I hate admin!). I think given that she has not been brilliant so far at doing the admin, it would be unwise to leave it to her. What if you missed an important appointment or drug dose as a result? I understand that you would like her to do it, but I think you'd be better to take it on yourself and ask her to step up in another way.

I get why OP wants her DP to do it. For me it would be less about the amin as a task, and more about DP contributing to the conception and pregnancy, consolidating it as our experience rather than mine alone.

Your partner sounds quite withdrawn but obviously you love her and know her very well, you'll know how to spell out to her what you're doing and how upset you are that she's not taking on her part of the bargain.

I really don't, though. That's why I'm posting. As @EvenMoreFuriousVexation says, I can't help feeling that she is showing me she doesn't want another child. She insists she isn't, but I am really worried about it.

@FoxgloveSummers - we could do it together (that's more or less what we've done so far). I just ... yep, wish it didn't upset me as much as it does.

@deerison - well, for legal reasons obviously I would be on top of the conversations/drugs etc., because they'll discuss all of that directly with me. But things like getting medical records released from the old clinic, emailing about prices, figuring out what costs what, are all things she could do, and some of it would be easier for her than for me (since the old clinic obviously had a lot more to do with her than me previously).

At the moment, one or other of us needs to sit down and work out exactly what's included in the various treatments, and I wish she would do that because for one thing we need to know how they define a 'successful' treatment - whether it's when you get a positive test, or when you see a heartbeat, or whatever. I find all of that quite upsetting because of previous history. But we need to work it out because it affects what option we'd want to pay for.

@5128gap

I get why OP wants her DP to do it. For me it would be less about the amin as a task, and more about DP contributing to the conception and pregnancy, consolidating it as our experience rather than mine alone.

Cross post. Yes, this is true, but also, just taking as much stress out of it as possible. When DP was doing hers, for example, she didn't want to know how much things cost (obviously, we had looked at price lists at the start so she knew, but she didn't want to look at the bill every time we paid for this drug or that appointment or whatever). I totally get that, so I was happy with it.

For me, I really hate having to figure out anything that makes me have to think about previous history. Obviously to an extent that's unavoidable and you just get on with it, but if she would do some of the legwork, it would help.