To be so hurt by this? (DP, TTC)

[SarahAndQuack]

DP and I are two women. We have a DD who is DP's biological daughter; when we discussed TTC I was always very clear that I would like to try to get pregnant too. DP is older, and I have a history of miscarriage, so it made sense for her to try first.

DP was frankly traumatised by pregnancy/childbirth. Partly because she had a rough time; partly because she was very unprepared for it and it came as a huge shock.

I have since tried with no success, and then covid happened and we put plans on hold. I have explained to DP many, many times that I would really appreciate her emotional and practical support. When she was trying, I did most of the admin with the clinic (because this can be stressful). When I first tried, all the admin fell to me again. So this time, I explained, I really wanted her support and help. It means a lot to me because (as you would imagine given the miscarriages - which were during a previous relationship - and the failed treatments), I now find the whole process quite stressful and upsetting.

Every time we discuss this, DP says yes, fine, she will do it, and yes, she definitely wants me to get pregnant. Then she does nothing. For example, I had to ask her about twenty times to get in touch with the clinic about something. Then I had to ask her over and over to write and print a letter we need to send. That letter is dated 22nd December and is still sitting on the table waiting for her to put it in the post.

I find it so hurtful. I have said over and over that, to me, it comes across as her not wanting another child, and/or not wanting me to have a child. She insists it is not, then continues to make no effort.

It's genuinely made me feel like crying today - I just don't know how to get through to her that it's really hurtful. I know she finds admin tedious (don't we all?), but I hate it.

(Btw, I didn't NC so if you know me please be discreet; also, I'm going to pop out in a few minutes because I want to do some deep breathing and calm down! So I won't reply straight off. I hope that is ok.)

Ok in that case, I would maybe sit her down with a list or even email her a list of the things you want her to be on top of, and WHEN she needs to do them by (e.g. by Saturday).

Explain that if she doesn't do these things you can only take it that she doesn't want another child and will be proceeding accordingly.

Then the ball's in her court. But you'll need a plan for what to do if she fails to do it.

I would ask her outright if she was absolutely certain she wanted another child. If she says she does tell her you will do admin but if /when you get pregnant you will expect her to step up and do other stuff so you can rest a lot to avoid miscarriage. Do you think she is worried about you having another miscarriage? Ask her outright? It may be she is worried and that is why she is slow to do admin. Good luck with pregnant and baby.

I really feel for you though as it kind of comes down to how much do you want to share the admin (quite rightly) v how much do you want to accelerate potentially getting pregnant.

She's abdicating her responsibility and tbh being really unfair on you.

@FoxgloveSummers, that is a really good idea. And my instinctive reaction is to say no, I really don't want to do that, I want her to just do it. Which is telling me that I'm letting my own issues complicate this quite a lot! This is a useful thread, thank you everyone.

@caringcarer - like I say, I really have asked her. She is adamant she does. I really don't want to say I'll do the admin; I really want her to do it.

I think she has a normal level of mild worry about me miscarrying. She's never gone through it (my miscarriages were before our relationship), so I don't think she quite 'gets' it, but obviously it's a concern and we have talked about it a fair bit.

@FoxgloveSummers

I really feel for you though as it kind of comes down to how much do you want to share the admin (quite rightly) v how much do you want to accelerate potentially getting pregnant.

She's abdicating her responsibility and tbh being really unfair on you.

YY. I think that is why I just feel so hurt.

[quote SarahAndQuack]@FoxgloveSummers, that is a really good idea. And my instinctive reaction is to say no, I really don't want to do that, I want her to just do it. Which is telling me that I'm letting my own issues complicate this quite a lot! This is a useful thread, thank you everyone.

@caringcarer - like I say, I really have asked her. She is adamant she does. I really don't want to say I'll do the admin; I really want her to do it.

I think she has a normal level of mild worry about me miscarrying. She's never gone through it (my miscarriages were before our relationship), so I don't think she quite 'gets' it, but obviously it's a concern and we have talked about it a fair bit.[/quote]
I don't necessarily think it's your issues! (unless it is, you would know) I think it's just that fundamentally although this isn't AIBU she is BU! Saying she will do things to support the supposedly shared goal of having a baby, then not following through - it's crap and hurtful.

If my partner and I start TTC and then he whips a condom on at the last minute it would be a similar sort of mixed message...

I do think learning to stand up for yourself on this is important. You may be more "touchy-feely" than her but that doesn't mean she has a licence to mess you around emotionally like this, especially when you've got your own trauma to deal with.

Ha, it is definitely partly my issues! I can feel a weird visceral 'argh' deep down when I think about the admin, which I know has to do with worrying about miscarriage. I had exactly the same when we TTC DD. I have had some therapy but it's just one of those things that gets to me.

But you're right, and very wise.

Are you in a position where you can just pause everything for 3-6 months and agree exactly what each of you will be doing when and if you restart the process.

It might be easier if you're not in the middle of it all.

She’s giving off signs she doesn’t want another child sorry. You need to stop pushing it. I get you want one but if she doesn’t you need to decide what’s more important

But if she says she really does want one - she can't just leave OP to intuit.

YY, I agree it's natural to worry about DD. I do myself, because there is a bit of me that worries I might not love another child as much as the first. I'm about 99% sure that isn't the case, but I know it's a really common worry. tbh from her perspective it may be that she’s afraid you will love your biological child more and that DD will take a backseat as you will be a first time mum etc.

Even though you are a same sex couple, the fact is that being pregnant with and giving birth to a baby which is biologically yours is vastly different from being a parent to a baby which someone else carried and gave birth to, and which is biologically theirs.

Could she be worried about something like that?

The thing is, if she really doesn’t want another baby for whatever reason, and she knows that you’re not going to do the admin, then it’s easy for her to just leave it, knowing that you won’t do it and that as a result you won’t be having another baby. Iyswim.

I would have an honest discussion with her, and instead of asking whether she wants another baby, I would tell her that you have the impression that she doesn’t want another baby. And when she says that she does, I would then go on and say that there won’t be another baby if she’s not prepared to contribute to the process, so while she isn’t, you’ll just assume that she doesn’t want one.

It sounds like you are both avoidant with the admin as it triggers bad memories for both of you. It feels like starting off a process you aren't sure you are capable of dealing with - miscarriage for you and traumatic pregnancy and birth for her. It sounds like you are actually similar and coming from the same place.

She probably feels that by filling this out and sending it, she's pushing you down a path - the blame will lie with her.

I would sit down and do the admin together, even if you cry or get upset doing it, you'll be there to support each other,

Good luck

@CheshireChat - the thing is, that's what we've been doing, and we can't do it forever. I keep thinking ok, we've sorted it, we've got to a place where we've talked about all the issues and figured out what she's upset about and what I'm upset about and what we're going to do. And then it's another long drawn-out process of me reminding ... and reminding her ... and reminding her. To be fair, I've also had a couple of wobbles where she's been the one saying we need to get back on track and start trying, so it isn't just me.

@CharlotteRose90 - hmm, I think that's a bit unfair. If she told me she didn't want another baby I could weigh up my options (to be brutal, I could decide whether that's a deal-breaker or not). But if she insists she does want one, it makes it quite hard for me to do that.

@HeartsAndClubs - YY, as I said (did I? I think so but it'll be on the first page so can't check mid-post), she did worry about that. I think it's very natural. It's interesting you feel the experiences are so very different - I've heard quite a lot of views on this (I seek them out, for obvious reasons), and not everyone agrees, but it's always useful to have more views. Did you have your bio child/children first, or non bio?

@CatSpeakForDummies - yes, that's exactly it, we are both avoidant and for similar reasons. But - and I know this sounds odd - I feel like saying I should do the admin, or we should share it, is basically saying my feelings are less important than hers. Which hurts. She isn't someone who finds it at all easy to understand the perspective of anyone who isn't her, but that doesn't stop me feeling hurt and upset.

Is she on the autistic spectrum at all @SarahAndQuack? Just asking as there might be specific expertise/thoughts on how to break through this kind of impasse.

Also I'd say kindly - if the admin is triggering all this anxiety about your history of traumatic pregnancies, is it worth speaking to your counsellor again? Because this is hardly likely to be the worst bit of it and you may be able to lose some of your fear.

Not to the best of my knowledge. She was brought up by fairly dysfunctional parents, though. They never talk about anything (literally: you can sit in their house for hours and questions are answered with a grunt; you could say something like 'so BIL, did you enjoy the book we got you for Christmas' and the answer would be 'no' and no one would bat an eyelid).

@FoxgloveSummers

Also I'd say kindly - if the admin is triggering all this anxiety about your history of traumatic pregnancies, is it worth speaking to your counsellor again? Because this is hardly likely to be the worst bit of it and you may be able to lose some of your fear.

I had been thinking I might need to do that. I think covid has made everything so much worse, and part of what is upsetting me is just feeling everything spiral. If I were a bit younger, I'd probably tell myself this is just not a good time to TTC and to give it a couple of years until everything is calmer, but unfortunately, that's not really a good idea (and, of course, the risk of miscarriage increases with age).

@SarahAndQuack

Not to the best of my knowledge. She was brought up by fairly dysfunctional parents, though. They never talk about anything (literally: you can sit in their house for hours and questions are answered with a grunt; you could say something like 'so BIL, did you enjoy the book we got you for Christmas' and the answer would be 'no' and no one would bat an eyelid).

I mean it doesn't NOT sound like a family with autism, or perhaps just a very strange one. Maybe read this? www.seeherthrive.com/blog/2020/11/5/autism-in-women-why-its-different-and-what-to-look-out-for

Then it really sounds like she's unsure (might even be subconscious) and is just trying not to lose you.

Only thing that might work would be to share the tasks and decide on a time frame they need to sorted by and if not, openly tell her you'll consider your options.

How would you feel if she turned around and said she doesn't feel she can cope with another child and doesn't want to proceed? for you

@FoxgloveSummers - YY, I do know what you mean (I know a little bit about autism and have taught quite a few autistic female students).

@CheshireChat - that's such a difficult question because of course it's so late down the line. I'd feel angry about the dishonesty, for sure. And I've got to say I'd also feel angry because she was very insistent she ought to TTC first, so there's that too. But I don't know if I would want to leave TBH. I mean, babies are nice but there's no guarantee I could have one, and no guarantee I wouldn't end up with PND and regret it (people do and I've been on MN far too long to take for granted no one ever regrets a baby they were desperate to conceive).

I think for me the bottom line would be, if she didn't feel she could cope with another baby, I would need to know she cared about me and was keen not to hurt me. At the moment, I don't feel like that.

are you going to try the deadline thing?

or the doing it together thing?

Or the just carrying on silently seething about it thing?

I wish you the best of luck either way! (and thanks for erroneously calling me wise)

I don't think you should do it, or share it out but actually sit down together to do it.

It will help both of you to have someone there supporting you and stop all this second guessing that's causing pain on both sides. You can compete over whose pain is worse or more deserving or minimise it all round, Go to the post box together to post it - you aren't letting her off the hook but changing it from a lonely, dread inducing task to a first step you take together.

But that won't feel like a first step, will it? It will feel like precisely what it is: her getting to say, ok, I got treated nicely and considerately when it was me TTC, but you, you are worth less, so we shall not do that for you.

Maybe say to her, I CAN'T do this. I need you to do it. That seems accurate.

Although it is starting to sound like there are deeper concerns, that there's an imbalance you're worried about more widely?

My guess would be frightened of having a newborn, scared she won’t love another baby as much (particularly if carried by you), ever so slightly resentful that you’re asking anything of her since she struggled so much with the baby that - rightly or wrongly - she felt you didn’t do enough to support her and those feelings are coming back to the surface. And she’s worried you’ll be a “natural” and then she’ll feel like a failure. All obviously total conjecture.