Do I just need to keep quiet?

[Knees88]

My DP has left his job to look after our 2 young DC full time. He plans to go back to work later in the year but we were paying lots of money for childcare and he hated his job. So I now work FT and he looks after 2 DC (though the toddler still goes to nursery 3 days a week & the baby goes to inlaws 1.5 days a week)

I'm working long hours but from home. My DP is stepping up. Kind of. He cleans the kitchen and he looks after the baby. But he also spends huge amount of time watching telly and playing videogames. When the baby sleeps he sleeps on the sofa (2 hours a day). I'm still doing all night wakes and feeds.

He also tends to watch TV while the kids just sit on the floor. And I hear him say to the toddler things like 'yes you can have chocolate from breakfast because i love you too much to say no'.

Problem is I would have HATED it if he had poked his nose in when I was on full time maternity and dared to suggest I could do more. BUT, whenever I go make a cup of tea he is on the sofa half asleep while the baby is playing with their toys. He also keeps saying he will do a bunch of DIY things when the baby sleeps but he hasn't done anything.

I have tried gently to suggest he could use his time better but it hasn't gone down well at all. I imagine him saying it to me when I was on mat leave and I would have told him to F off and that I'm exhausted. But he doesn't do night wakes and the baby naps for 2-3 hours every day.

Do I just need to stay out of it? He thinks I'm setting him to fail and that I can't let go. Maybe that's true. I need to just focus on my job. But they're my tiny kids and they're spending their time entertaining themselves so he can do what he wants.

Any advice?

Didn't you discuss what him quitting his job would mean for the family?

I think you can broach it in terms of socialising the children and the home needing to be clean for them.

What about "I think we need to get a cleaner because it's hard for us to keep the house clean but I can't afford it - how would you feel about finding a part time job on the days when you don't have either child?"

Thanks @girlmom21 - we did discuss it kind of. But focussed on what he needs e.g. he can't cope with his job anymore, feels disconnected from the DC, wants time to himself to reflect and think about his next steps etc

And I was supportive. But it's harder when I'm working bloody hard to hear him watching back to back movies while eating left over cake!

Does he have days when he has none of the children?

An approach might be to schedule a family meeting and talk about the weekly chores and also activities for children and see if you can get a rota or a checklist. Laundry, cleaning etc.

For a start I’d tell him part of being the Sahp is doing the night feeds so that the other parent is well rested for work

I’d be concerned that he wasn’t interacting with the children as much as they need. What are they doing on the floor when he’s watching tv? That’s not on and I would not support him being a sahd if he’s not actually doing things with them?

Is he taking them out? Play groups, swimming, the park?

@RoyKentsChestHair

For a start I’d tell him part of being the Sahp is doing the night feeds so that the other parent is well rested for work

^ This Other than that, I wouldn’t say anything …. for now.

F

He sounds quite depressed. I can understand him needing headspace after his job disaster, but it needs to be at least a bit progressive.
Could you focus discussion on how he moves himself forward( life coach, therapy, personal growth stuff) because you are probably only going to get the results you want if he sorts himself out a bit.
I remember my husband gently asking if I was enjoying my life when I was behaving similarly with small kids, I patently wasn’t, and it was a breakthrough moment.

To be fair @RoyKentsChestHair - I do the night wakes but he gets up early with them both to give me a lie in until 7/8am. he is awful at night wakes - by the time hes pulled himself out of bed and found his glasses and had a piss the baby is crying so hard they've woken up the toddler! So he does the early mornings.

When I was on maternity, he was working in an office if I wanted to watch daytime TV for an hour - I absolutely bloody would. So I don't want to feel like he can't do that - but there is 1.5 days a week where he doesn't have any kids at all and he only watches telly

I've mentioned cleaning the bathrooms and he nodded. But still nothing. I literally can't imagine him cleaning a loo. I'm not sure I've ever seen it happen. He might have literally go to the age of 40 without ever having done it.

URGH. I know the answer is to communicate, but the temptation just to do it myself and prevent all the huffing, puffing, frustrating conversations.

@Ohyesiam - yes, that is a good point. I think he is definitely depressed. But he was worse when he was working - so anxious, not sleeping, getting so wound up about the smallest thing. And he was always sad about not seeing the kids as they would be in bed when he got back in

So I'm trying my hardest to remain supportive. But I feel like I've done quite a lot already to say 'yes, quit your job, I will take on all the finances so you can take the time to sort your head out AND we can continue paying for some childcare so you have days free'.....and he is using it to do nothing. But when I question he says 'i thought i had this time to myself and you're now putting pressure on me'

He's taking you for a mug. Night wakings need to be 50/50 minimum.

He's got 1.5 days a week - he could clean the house, do the laundry, sort the food shop, batch cook, go to the gym and still have free time left over.

Does he actually have any plans to go back to work?

You have done a lot, and you need to see some movement now. I can see how tricky this is with him pleading not wanting to be pressured.
So maybe see it as a series of things to say to him, the first being that you love him, and you want him to be happy. No strings , just a statement.

I’m my experience small but heartfelt gestures of connection can touch and motivate even the very depressed.
Also people( men?) can be defensive if they feel that a heartfelt talk is on the cards, because they feel they will have something asked of them or be given information they don’t want to hear. So the loving statement without intent can be helpful in that way too. Less defensive, more able to share feelings. Which makes it easier to take action about feelings and emotional state that don’t feel good.

he is awful at night wakes - by the time hes pulled himself out of bed and found his glasses and had a piss the baby is crying so hard they've woken up the toddler! So he does the early mornings

Strategic incompetence - what a surprise! He’s just lazy and he needs to step up or go the fuck back to work so that you can afford to pay someone else to give your kids the attention they deserve. These are their formative years for learning how to interact with other people, and he’s wasting them by watching TV.

@RoyKentsChestHair

For a start I’d tell him part of being the Sahp is doing the night feeds so that the other parent is well rested for work

I agree with this however on MN, if it's the mum who's the SAHP and the dad who works, then both should be doing night care and feeding, as she's been 'working' all day as well. Interesting to see how this opinion will go down with the sexes reversed.

he is awful at night wakes - by the time hes pulled himself out of bed and found his glasses and had a piss the baby is crying so hard they've woken up the toddler! So he does the early mornings

Jeez how do you tolerate this?! Yuk what a hopeless man.

@Knees88

Thanks *@girlmom21* - we did discuss it kind of. But focussed on what he needs e.g. he can't cope with his job anymore, feels disconnected from the DC, wants time to himself to reflect and think about his next steps etc

And I was supportive. But it's harder when I'm working bloody hard to hear him watching back to back movies while eating left over cake!

Oh boy.

You've got a right one there.

I wonder just how long his 'thinking' will take?

[quote Knees88]@Ohyesiam - yes, that is a good point. I think he is definitely depressed. But he was worse when he was working - so anxious, not sleeping, getting so wound up about the smallest thing. And he was always sad about not seeing the kids as they would be in bed when he got back in

So I'm trying my hardest to remain supportive. But I feel like I've done quite a lot already to say 'yes, quit your job, I will take on all the finances so you can take the time to sort your head out AND we can continue paying for some childcare so you have days free'.....and he is using it to do nothing. But when I question he says 'i thought i had this time to myself and you're now putting pressure on me'[/quote]
Sorry,

He's taking you for a mug.

And I don't want to be the harbinger of gloom, but if he stays in this mindset for long enough and you get sick of it, he'll be the default SAHP...

This happened with my XH after our first was born. Luckily he came to his own conclusion that he was crap at full-time childcare so he found a new job within a year! Have you asked him how he thinks it’s going? He doesn’t sound very happy…

When you were on maternity leave, it was also for you to heal after carrying the baby & giving birth! He's done neither of those things!!

How long ago did he stop working? (Sorry if you said & I missed it).

I can see both sides & I'd hate to be in either of your positions.

What I would do if I were you, would be to write down what I think is 'fair' then say to him that I really want to support him in having some time to sort himself out before getting another job, BUT not all day, everyday while the kids are ignored or bring minded by other people!!

And that he's quit his job, NOT his family!! & part if that is keeping the house clean/laundry done/food bought etc.

Talk about what you BOTH want for the children and how together you can achieve it! (Ie fresh air everyday, maybe family days out or a trip to the park at the weekend & him taking the baby for a walk on the other week days when not being minded by the grandparents etc. limited 'treats' & learning to accept 'not today, we'll have some chocolate with mummy at the park on Saturday'. He needs to stop saying yes all the time and he NEEDS to stop saying 'yes because I love you'. She's not to young to start learning that often 'no' is because you love them!!

If you think it's better for the baby/toddler for you to do the night wakings & you're ok with doing them, then make sure he's doing any evening wakings/last feed etc and the mornings. Or some nights. It's so personal what works for each couple. But make sure it FEELS 'fair'

Maybe do something like the half day he has no kids he can do whatever he wants, but the full day he dies the DIY he's been promising.

Try to talk about getting a good family life organised (rather than him not being a lazy cunt!)

DO NOT just 'say nothing'

No, you can’t stay quiet as he is taking you to an absolute mug. He needs to get back to work. I’m sure when you were on MAT leave you watched your telly but still managed to drag a mop around and stick the laundry on when you were free?

It always makes me laugh when posters on here suggest the bloke staying at home as some kind of liberal feminist solution to expensive childcare. It is nearly never worth it. There are men who are proactive around the house and marvellous with their kids, but good blokes like this act like that even when they work FT outside the house.

Having the man become the main carer giver nearly always results in the house being a shittip, lots of Netflix and FIFA and children being given 8 mini rolls for lunch for a quiet life. And more mental workload for the woman as she navigates working full time, commuting, admin, housework and parenting. They will not take on anything extra due to their male entitlement bemoaning that they are ‘tooooo busyyyy’ when the equivalent SAHM would have beautifully turned-out engaged DC, a lovely home and life admin all sorted.

@RoyKentsChestHair

he is awful at night wakes - by the time hes pulled himself out of bed and found his glasses and had a piss the baby is crying so hard they've woken up the toddler! So he does the early mornings

Strategic incompetence - what a surprise! He’s just lazy and he needs to step up or go the fuck back to work so that you can afford to pay someone else to give your kids the attention they deserve. These are their formative years for learning how to interact with other people, and he’s wasting them by watching TV.

That, all that. He's clearly doing a shit job as a SAHP.

I don't have an issue with him not doing the night wakings because DH and I had a similar arrangement - I did the night wakings, he did the early mornings. But he was an engaged, hands-on, active dad.

If he has 1.5 days childfree he should be handling all the cleaning at a minimum. He should also be ensuring your children eat a balanced diet and are effectively socialised, get outside enough etc etc. These are not controversial things to suggest!

@Suprima - bloody hell. Your last paragraph. So accurate.

8 mini rolls for lunch. I can see it happening. It's the way he says 'oh go on then....eat leftover quality street for breakfast. I just love them so much i can't say no'. I literally think my kids teeth are going to fall out if this continues. And it makes me look horrible when I'm in charge and I say no. I say no because I love them.

I'm going to have to talk to him. Tell him some basics - no sweets or chocolate for breakfast (HA!), turn TV off sometimes, don't just give the toddler your phone from the moment you wake up, the baby might be happy playing with your old coke can but it's probably not the best.

I make him sound neglectful. He's not. I don't worry about their actual safety. And he covers them in kisses and makes them laugh all the time. But surprise surprise...the harder stuff is just not being done and i worry about the impact on them.

Some people just don't have any drive or initiative and will always do the bare minimum. They can only manage in occupations when the boss stands behind them and basically forces them to do their job. They will still never do anything but a bare minimum, but at least that would be done.

As you don't want to be that boss, I really doubt he will wake one day and become a great dad who takes a load off your plate so you can concentrate on your job. Back to work for him. Oh and I bet it will take a good couple of years for him to find a job as well, because he will send one random CV and give up.