Help please with permanently angry dd - possible mental health issues

[Cuddlemequick]

I have a 9 nearly 10 year old dd. She has been angry since the day she was born and I'm at my wit's end. I desperately need somewhere to vent.

That is basically the bottom line of it but to give a little more context, she is going through puberty (body changes but no period yet), lockdown hit her hard, we moved city last year and I'm divorced from her extremely difficult dad. All of those things explain why her anger has ramped up in the last couple of years, but not really why she has been prone to anger from the beginning of her life, which is what I want to tackle.

She's currently in play therapy because I broke down to her teacher about it and school recommended play therapy as a first step. Her play therapist has suggested it's a relationship issue between dd and I, her SENCO has suggested possible ASD and heavy masking, her dad is saying it's because I moved her away from him (we moved 45 mins away for a fresh start and she now sees him regularly whereas when we lived near him it was inconsistently and on his terms).

She used to cry fairly constantly as a newborn and she'd wake up from naps and scream angrily which I put down to reflux. As a toddler she would stomp around angrily and have huge meltdowns which I put down to age/stage. When she started school she would cry before school and explode after school which I put down to tiredness. Now she's 9 she talks to me like shit, still has off the scale meltdowns, and rarely seems happy, and I've been putting it down to lockdown and, more recently, puberty. I can't keep putting it down to external things - this is the way she is.

She has friends in both old and new cities, we see them often. She does 2 after school activities per week that she enjoys - she can't handle doing more or she gets overtired. She has a fairly standard, easygoing life. I would say I'm more relaxed than strict - I've had to become relaxed over time in order to maintain my own sanity. I used to try and implement consequences around the behaviour/meltdowns but it just made things worse and she would scream that I was trying to control her.

On her dad's side of the family there are mental health problems. Her paternal uncle is undiagnosed (not in UK) but looks to me to be schizophrenic. He doesn't function at all and has spent the last 20 years in one room. Her dad also has undiagnosed issues, again to my very untrained eye, I would hazard a guess at ADHD or, at a push, bipolar disorder. My concern is that she has been born with a predisposition to poor mental health.

When I talk to her about her anger, she says there's nothing wrong and that I'm making her feel that there is something wrong with her.

Please please please - if anyone has any experience of an angry-by-nature child, I need to know if there's anything I can do and if not, how to live with it.

God that was long, sorry.
I do also have another child who is a happy little boy so I don't think it is my parenting.

I think it's worth exploring what your SENCO has mentioned, as they are there to spot early any signs of SEN. A SENCO that spots potential AS issues in a young girl is probably quite a clued up one in my experience! Also a few things you describe do sound like masking and the resulting exhaustion, coupled with a lot of major changes in a relatively short period of time.

You could also explore some counselling for both of you maybe? If it was suggested for both of you to do it together would she be more responsive?

There are some books you could work through together, I found What to do when your Temper Flares is quite good, and worked on that with my DS. It's also worth googling 'the anger iceberg' and seeing if she can identify any of the underlying issues. Anger is usually the presenting behaviour of an underlying issue, a lot of which can be anxiety based. It's worth trying to spend some time identifying what those issues might be before you can tackle the anger.

All best wishes to you both.

I know this sounds a bit wacky but have you tried mindfulness together?

She’s old enough for an honest chat about what brings her joy. Also draw around her hand and ask her to write one thing she likes about herself on each finger.

Another couple of things could be doing cosmic yoga together (YouTube) and buy her a weighted blanket so she feels secure.

I’m autistic and I get angry when I don’t feel secure. A weighted blanket, calming activities and chatting slowly / honestly really helps me calm down.

My weighted blanket is probably the single item that changed my life, opened my heart and reduced my worries.

Good luck xx

I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes OP. My middle son is the same. Angry and sad since the day he was born. Two other kids, the exact opposite. I've tried everything. All he says is he hates school and hates the way he looks. He has friends, a comfortable happy life, he is loved, - no actual problems at school at all. Yet he is permanently sad and utterly explosive at home. Talks to me like I'm a piece of shit.

I have no advice just wanted to reach out and say I know how heartbreaking this is.

Oh thank you all so much for replying.
@sonaftersonafterson I hear you! Heartbreaking isn't it.

It is! I just want him to he happy. All the pieces are in place to facilitate that and he is emotionally cared for listened to, but it's a brick wall. I never really get through to him.

Sending love and strength xxxx

ASD is a strong possibility. You need to be relaxed but possibly more routines with her, if you see what I need . She’s had a lot if change and with lockdown a loss of routine. She needs to know what is coming each day and have fairly set times for things. Can therapist/senco advise?

I am thinking ASD from what you have written. Good call from the SENCO. I think I have a matching daughter to you! Sometimes at the end of the of the day I realise my teeth have been grinding together and I have to release my jaw with the stress!! My DD likes alone time and routines and goes from 0 to 100 in a flash if something has set her off.

Yes, ASD sounds possible. Sensory overload may be a problem as well as the emotional pressure of masking. She mightn’t recognise the signs she’s getting overwhelmed until she’s in that state, and she may not connect behaviour with an emotional state ie may genuinely not ‘feel’ angry.

When I said relaxed I didn't mean routine wise I meant in terms of consequences/discipline as standard parenting strategies just don't work with her. We have a strict routine as I work full time so we wouldn't cope without one. She knows what is happening every day. I already parent as if she were diagnosed ASD. I've read all about ASD in girls, as well as PDA and ODD, and use strategies which reduce stress in the house but nothing seems to help with her anger.

My DD12 has ADHD and ASD.

You need to have an assessment done otherwise you are just rummaging around for a solution when you don't know what the issue is.

Get a referral from your doctor, get her on the list. Massive wait times at the moment so if you can afford to go private after the referral do it.

Just to add I'm a single mum so routine etc is super important in terms of work etc.

The meltdown maybe ADHD as they often have RSD (mine certainly does)

The referral is being done through school.
I will try the book and the weighted blanket suggestions.
@sonaftersonafterson I feel the same, that everything for a happy life is in place but I can't connect with her. Sometimes I feel like we're from different planets.

DS2 was lovely and charming at school/with friends, but often angry/ explosive at home. Was diagnosed late (age 12) with dyslexia and I also suspect he has ASD/ADD. He is basically exhausted by having to mask/ present as normal all day and takes it out on the people he loves.
He is also angry because he doesn't quite 'get' a lot of what is going on around him (alow processing) and his reaction is to lash out/ blame anyone else because in his mind it's not his fault/ it isn't fair.

He's now better at managing it (in late teens) but I can still see/ predict when he will spiral down/ have an outburst.

I feel he needs some CBT etc but we are dealing with other issues at the moment, so haven't yet organised it.

@normasnorks what were the signs of dyslexia?
Yes blame and lashing out is my dd's immediate reaction too.

You’re doing the right thing by taking her in for ASD assessment. Have you ever tried gentle parenting on her OP? I know it’s normally aimed at parents of toddlers, but it can be a very useful tool to calm just about anyone down. What happens when you acknowledge her sadness/anger and let her just feel her feelings? She did seem to be telling you that nothing is wrong with her, I wonder if she genuinely doesn’t realise she’s angry and can’t place or recognise her emotions. Or perhaps she’s trying to tell you she sees nothing wrong with her being angry?

It sounds difficult OP, just keep pushing for assessments. It does sound like a lot of upheaval for a 9 year old. While the day to day might be calm to you, she might be unable to cope with the change. CBT or therapy for her and both of you together might help with her ability to process and cope with things and both of your abilities to communicate.

ASD assessment won't happen for a while - there is a 2 year waiting list. A diagnosis won't give me anything I don't know already.
What I need is ways of managing to live with her (for both me and her brother) and hopefully for her to express herself better.
Yes I've been doing gentle parenting for years now, once I realised it was the quickest way to keep myself sane. Doesn't make any difference to her though.

Sorry I know I sound defeatist. It's very wearing living with such an angry person.
I suppose what I'm really worried about is that this will escalate into a proper mental health condition (a mood disorder maybe) and that I'm unable to do anything about it. I just want her to be happy!

We had similar with DD. She’s been fierce since she was tiny, huge “tantrums” which took time to cool off. She’s 8 now…I have ASD and I strongly suspect she does too (paeds refused to assess her as she didn’t meet the threshold), functions too well in school
So we decided to do some things to help…main things that helped were reading and implementing The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. That says to identify the biggest problem you have and work on that -
We identified that bed times were the biggest problem and her lack of sleep. We chose to change her routine, starting giving her melatonin (had to import it), do sleep stories and stay in until she settled. It took a gruelling fortnight of her resisting - she liked staying awake until 11pm playing in bed! - but it started to work. Now she settles quickly most nights, she asks for the medicine because she knows it helps her sleep. Her moods are more stable. Resolving that one issue has made her so much happier and calmer. It’s well worth reading the book.

Thank you @thepontiacbandit I'll get that book and I'm glad your dd's moods have stabilised. My dd has a good sleep pattern, luckily, but on days after sleepovers when she's had less sleep she is horrendous.

I could have written this OP.

In our case DD does have a diagnosis which is very mild cerebral palsy. However her physical symptoms are very slight, it’s the emotional / anger side we really see. I fear she will lose her friends through it, which will make her even more angry.

DD is remorseful after the event and will usually apologise for being rude or having a strop. Which is something. But she just can’t seem to control herself in the moment when the anger takes over.

We have tried zones of regulation, suggesting counting/breathing/walking away, consequences, worry box, etc. None of these helped. Early nights and regular food help a bit. So does avoiding known triggers eg afternoon playdates, sudden transitions.

As you say, a diagnosis doesn’t help in itself.

Pontiac I have that book, read it ages ago when DD was 3 or 4, it seemed more suited to older children… I must dig it out and re read it.

It's very wearing living with such an angry person.

It really, really is. I have felt angry and grumpy a lot over the past few years… started wondering if DD gets it from me… then remembered I didn’t feel like this before DD . It’s not her fault, and it must be even worse for her than for me, but my god it grinds me down. Hope we both see improvement soon

Could she live with her Dad? If that is at the heart of it, let her try living with him maybe?

My niece was as you describe. She was born angry. She scowled when she was hungry and scowled when she was fed. Her parents did everything around her moods and she was a nightmare. My Mother (so this child's Grandmother) had schizophrenia (diagnosed) and her mother was a monster as far as MH was concerned.

The stropping and stomping were continuous and blighted the lives of my brother and his wife. She had to repeatedly move schools as she was horrible and then bullied. She died at the age of 40 from a situation that was as a direct result of her behaviour.
Other family members have similar genetic outcomes but not to the extent my niece and my GM had it. Whereas my Mum had schizophrenia but was basically a nice person, my GM and niece were malicious. My sister is malicious also. Her daughter is turning the same way by all accounts. I am NC with my sister and her family as I cannot tolerate her personality. I found my niece hard to tolerate but saw her so infrequently it didn't matter. I never took a bag when visiting and wore my car keys on a string around my necks as she would steal car keys or anything to cause a ruck.