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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help please with permanently angry dd - possible mental health issues

76 replies

Cuddlemequick · 06/01/2022 10:01

I have a 9 nearly 10 year old dd. She has been angry since the day she was born and I'm at my wit's end. I desperately need somewhere to vent.

That is basically the bottom line of it but to give a little more context, she is going through puberty (body changes but no period yet), lockdown hit her hard, we moved city last year and I'm divorced from her extremely difficult dad. All of those things explain why her anger has ramped up in the last couple of years, but not really why she has been prone to anger from the beginning of her life, which is what I want to tackle.

She's currently in play therapy because I broke down to her teacher about it and school recommended play therapy as a first step. Her play therapist has suggested it's a relationship issue between dd and I, her SENCO has suggested possible ASD and heavy masking, her dad is saying it's because I moved her away from him (we moved 45 mins away for a fresh start and she now sees him regularly whereas when we lived near him it was inconsistently and on his terms).

She used to cry fairly constantly as a newborn and she'd wake up from naps and scream angrily which I put down to reflux. As a toddler she would stomp around angrily and have huge meltdowns which I put down to age/stage. When she started school she would cry before school and explode after school which I put down to tiredness. Now she's 9 she talks to me like shit, still has off the scale meltdowns, and rarely seems happy, and I've been putting it down to lockdown and, more recently, puberty. I can't keep putting it down to external things - this is the way she is.

She has friends in both old and new cities, we see them often. She does 2 after school activities per week that she enjoys - she can't handle doing more or she gets overtired. She has a fairly standard, easygoing life. I would say I'm more relaxed than strict - I've had to become relaxed over time in order to maintain my own sanity. I used to try and implement consequences around the behaviour/meltdowns but it just made things worse and she would scream that I was trying to control her.

On her dad's side of the family there are mental health problems. Her paternal uncle is undiagnosed (not in UK) but looks to me to be schizophrenic. He doesn't function at all and has spent the last 20 years in one room. Her dad also has undiagnosed issues, again to my very untrained eye, I would hazard a guess at ADHD or, at a push, bipolar disorder. My concern is that she has been born with a predisposition to poor mental health.

When I talk to her about her anger, she says there's nothing wrong and that I'm making her feel that there is something wrong with her.

Please please please - if anyone has any experience of an angry-by-nature child, I need to know if there's anything I can do and if not, how to live with it.

OP posts:
crosshatching · 06/01/2022 14:47

Have you talked through your concerns about mental health conditions with your GP? My understanding is that sometimes puberty starts bringing these conditions to the surface. At least regular monitoring might relieve one area of anxiety for you.

Have you explored the National Autism Society? I have used their parent helpline before and it's been helpful. Also any local ASD support groups will offer some advice and support for you too.

We also found weighted blankets useful, and it guaranteed sleep. I still give my DS Piriton from time to time even though he's now a strapping teenager, sleep is still key to helping mood. Could you ask your ex to give her some when she stays over?

To be honest a diagnosis is still really helpful as it will unlock more support for her at secondary school, also you might be able to qualify for DLA which has helped us with extra tutoring etc.

An unmumsnetty hug to you, I've been in your shoes 💐

Gargellen · 06/01/2022 14:48

Neck, not necks. I have only one! :)

BlankTimes · 06/01/2022 15:04

Another vote to pursue an assessment and to look at Ross Greene's
book The Explosive Child and his website Lives in the Balance.

Are you aware of any Sensory issues she may have which will trigger her anger (or more likely IMO frustration)?
This is a quick overview of sensory issues www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/social-care/disabilities/docs/young-people/Making%20Sense%20of%20Sensory%20Behaviour.pdf?

This site explains many things that can cause problems for neurodiverse people, perhaps some of the strategies mentioned can help you and her?
www.theottoolbox.com/

This explains why your DD seems perfectly ordinary in some ways and not in others
the-art-of-autism.com/understanding-the-spectrum-a-comic-strip-explanation/

I know it's a lot to take on board, but you've already worked out that ordinary parenting techniques aren't working for either of you so now it's time to have a look at neurodiversity as a possibility for your DD's behaviour. Ten out of ten for her SENCO, she sounds as though she's on the ball.

Shybutnotretiring · 06/01/2022 15:17

My children have ASD and I have the same issue that my daughter talks to me like shit. I honestly think she doesn't mean it - it's a kind of venting on her part. The only advice I would offer in addition to what you have received is don't assume that just because she doesn't show that she doesn't understand something that she actually does understand it. With my slightly older children, 13 and 11, I feel I understand them better now that I realise that often they don't understand something. If that makes any sense!

jeaux90 · 06/01/2022 15:25

You say a diagnosis won't tell you anything but you don't actually know that.
It was also very useful to my DD12 to go through the assessment and have an answer.

Once we had some answers and a few solutions it made life easier.

I know now that she is very high on the ADHD scale and low on the ASD. I know now that she suffers from RSD so her meltdowns are explained.

More important though is that SHE knows. She knows she is ND and why and from there she can look at role models like her.

Cuddlemequick · 06/01/2022 15:40

I mean, we are going for assessment, I'm not refusing that or anything. I'm just saying that I need help NOW not in 2 years time, which is how long the waiting list is.

OP posts:
workingtheusername · 06/01/2022 15:42

Definitely an assessment will help it could be asd or pda . When's she's angry try (it's hard) not to retaliate or punish just be there and supporting. Try to work out triggers for meltdowns and see if you can make changes to the situation to avoid them. Ie needs plenty of warning for change have a visual timetable or phone reminders. See what she responds well to such as routines or quiet time and make sure she has "tools" to help her. Talk about her reactions (when calm) try to understand why they are happening and try to compromise on your expectations of each other. Ross greene book as mentioned above is excellent

workingtheusername · 06/01/2022 15:58

My dc is asd these things help him-

A set routine - he has a daily planner, calendar on his wall. He knows exactly what's going to happen each day.
Lots of planning for new events- talking, Googling, photos to prepare him.
No pressure with foods - he had sensory issues we just do best we can with what we got.
Fidget stuff - braclets etc.
Technology- we do limit it but it helps him particularly if struggling ie in queues or when people are visiting
No expectation to conform to social niceties- eye contact small talk are on his terms
Physical contact- on his terms
Stims - echolia, head shaking, jumping etc when ever he needs to as they help ground him.
Busy places - limit time there as he gets overwhelmed
Special interests- sharing the interests with him no matter how dull
Recognising if he's starting to struggle and adapting the situation
Not expecting him to be 'normal'
Know that conversation for him is very different to me - I might say something, he might repeat it but it doesn't mean he's agreed or understand what I mean.
If he's melting down supporting him, he's reacting to a situation. I'm responsible for his reactions.

He's a couple of years younger than your dc but didn't know if anything might help😊

workingtheusername · 06/01/2022 16:01

@autismandgin

I know this sounds a bit wacky but have you tried mindfulness together?

She’s old enough for an honest chat about what brings her joy. Also draw around her hand and ask her to write one thing she likes about herself on each finger.

Another couple of things could be doing cosmic yoga together (YouTube) and buy her a weighted blanket so she feels secure.

I’m autistic and I get angry when I don’t feel secure. A weighted blanket, calming activities and chatting slowly / honestly really helps me calm down.

My weighted blanket is probably the single item that changed my life, opened my heart and reduced my worries.

Good luck xx

These are great ideas 😊
jeaux90 · 06/01/2022 16:35

The one thing that has massively helped my DD (apart from the assessment and knowing that's going on) is that when she melts down I just hug her. Occasionally I ignore (if she's being really rude) but mainly I hug her because from what I understand about the way she feels and older ADHD people have told me is that they can't help it, they feel ashamed.

Also I try and reframe "no"
It's no that causes the meltdown often as she has RSD so I say it a different way.

Cuddlemequick · 06/01/2022 16:39

I can't get near her when she's in meltdown. Never have been able to hug her when she's like that, even as a baby she would thrash around and arch her back.
How are you reframing no? Give me a word for word example if you don't mind?

OP posts:
Cuddlemequick · 06/01/2022 16:42

I have to say that no doesn't seem to have too bad an effect on my dd. There are some sensory triggers which I'm aware of, transitions are hard, but apart from that I can't pinpoint anything, and anyway it's almost constant anger rather than happy-happy-meltdown-happy.

OP posts:
BlankTimes · 06/01/2022 16:49

I just hug her

That's fabulous IF she responds positively to firm touch and finds it calming, it's a great technique as is deep pressure etc.

However, other kids respond very differently to touch, to them sometimes the slightest touch can be like a punch and that's amplified x1,000 when distressed, so make sure your hugs or any form of touch are going to be received in the right way before you try Grin

As with every intervention for neurodiverse people, what works for one won't necessarily work for another and what works one day may not work another day either.

Do read as much as you can on sensory processing, it can be very helpful to use the correct interventions that work for your child or dependant adult.

jeaux90 · 06/01/2022 16:56

www.additudemag.com/adhd-odd-why-is-my-child-angry/amp/

This is an interesting read about ODD in relation to ADHD.

When I said about reframe "no"

Eg.
Can I have a sleepover?
We have plans to go and do xyz which I was looking forward to so maybe another time.

Kind of simple but it helps with mine.

Is there any chance you could go private for the assessment? I can't stress how important this process is for both you and her.

quietdaysandnights · 06/01/2022 16:59

Sounds quite similar to my almost 9 year old. Reflux, always had explosive outbursts/ anger/ moving/ relationship issues with your H and his difficult behaviour.
My son is also extremely sensitive emotionally. I also felt that he felt insecure about my bonding/ feelings for him.

So when was about 5 I started to make a huge effort to reconnect with him, lots of time together, lots of descriptive praise, lots of hugs/ lots of listening/ lots of articulating clearly my unconditional love for him. And it has helped a lot.

I have also read the Explosive Child and starting to implement that. He finds it too difficult to talk about his behaviour in a specific event, so I have to try to talk about things generally. He still finds that hard so I keep it really short.

IHe still has lots of explosive episodes, but I definitely think he feels more secure underneath that which helps.

quietdaysandnights · 06/01/2022 17:00

Oh, it also helps to have times where he has an opportunity to open up.
For us it is at bedtime. We chat in the dark for quite a while and this is the time he uses to talk about things that are bothering him.

Mylittlepixie · 06/01/2022 17:14

You are describing my DD. Shes only 6 though but headed in that direction. As a toddler she would have meltdowns where she hurt herself if i didnt stop her.
I have started including her in my daily yoga/meditation sessions. Even if its just 10mins before bed to focus on breathing and calm. There are great recordings online.
Ive been doing it for a year now and its really helped. It usually flares up again on holidays when we are out of routine. But i think overall its really made a difference.

supercali77 · 06/01/2022 19:53

My daughter is the same, angry baby, toddler etc. In primary 1 she was placed into a quieter 'nurture room' at school because her behaviour disrupted the classroom. Social skills were her issue and they did a brilliant job. After that she seemed to settle 'ok' into school. Now at 7.5 years old i deal with anger at home, we talk, she can be ok for a while and then it starts again in a cycle. The school are now doing some kind of asd test? Next week. Her dad initiated it and at first I thought they'd do what I've always seen them do (say she's probably fine just taking time to adjust) but they didn't. They said it would probably be worthwhile. I was quite torn over it, labelling her from a young age just as id found her manageable compared to all the years I was begging for help. But I realised it might help me/the school to help her.

OnceuponaRainbow18 · 06/01/2022 19:57

You need to teach her how to recognise that she’s starting to feel angry and then learn ways of what to do to calm down.

You could make a calm down poster with her, so when she recognises anger is arising she gets out her poster and works her way through ways to calm her down, such as box breathing, counting back from 20, imaging her happy place- what can she see/hear/smell etc

Cuddlemequick · 06/01/2022 20:11

All these suggestions of things to do with my daughter to help her calm down are made on the assumption that she will engage with me. My dd would rather stick a fork in her eye than make a poster with me. Same for the yoga, the breathing techniques, the drawing round the hand. Lovely ideas and I'm happy that you have all found ways to get your kids to respond, but my relationship with my dd is best when I leave her alone. Hence why the play therapist suggested that it is a relationship issue.

OP posts:
OnceuponaRainbow18 · 06/01/2022 20:22

@Cuddlemequick

Can she make the poster with a teacher? I don’t have older kids but work with them and make these posters with them, teach them how to use them and suggest they use at home

Cuddlemequick · 06/01/2022 20:25

Yes that's a good idea, I can ask at school. I asked if someone there could go through zones of regulation with her but there isn't really the staff or resources or time for them to do it.
She's currently mid meltdown because she has suddenly decided she no longer wants to go to play therapy and I've said I won't cancel her sessions.

OP posts:
Thisisworsethananticpated · 06/01/2022 20:26

I used to roll my eyes when everyone said sen/asd
Ha ! Then my son was diagnosed and it all fell into place

And add in a bad split and you being her ‘safe space ‘ , all the ingredients for one very stressed mum

With a child like this you need A very soft and different parenting approach and a shed load of self care
It’s really really hard
I’ve pm you with a support group I’m in which might help

Also her dad leaving will impact her

Look after yourself
This is hard and if you can make sure you are religious abiut looking after yourself

Bellyups · 06/01/2022 20:45

Op, I was exactly like your dd as a child.
I have since, as an adult, been diagnosed with ADD.

workingtheusername · 06/01/2022 20:54

@Cuddlemequick

All these suggestions of things to do with my daughter to help her calm down are made on the assumption that she will engage with me. My dd would rather stick a fork in her eye than make a poster with me. Same for the yoga, the breathing techniques, the drawing round the hand. Lovely ideas and I'm happy that you have all found ways to get your kids to respond, but my relationship with my dd is best when I leave her alone. Hence why the play therapist suggested that it is a relationship issue.
Yes relationship is key. I appreciate we are possibly preaching to the choir but can you find something that interests her and try to engage with it. Even if just for a few minutes. Then build on it gradually small steps. Or Could play therapist facilitate or suggest ways to engage?
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