When does a bad relationship become what you would call an abusive one?

[eazyduzit]

I was talking to my friend about my relationship today and she said 'what he has done to you is abusive, do you know that?' and to be honest, I didn't, or don't. I said 'yeah yeah, he's been so crap' but when I put the phone down I actually felt quite shocked. It's bothered me all day since.

So, about 3 years ago we had a bad argument and both said some hurtful things. My DH admits he hasn't really gotten over that argument. For the last 3 years he has:

1. Ignored me for long stretches of time. Periods of months. Silent treatment. For example, waking up in the morning and saying good morning to all of the children, but not me.

2. I don't know how to explain this without sounding silly, but I feel it. He plays with the children or does things with them in a way that makes me feel left out. It's like he has built this world around them and only they are involved in that world, I don't exist.

3. Left our bed and sleeps on the sofa (this is intermittent, but it just feels so rejecting)

4. Tells me every now and again he doesn't love me anymore and no longer wants me intimately

5. When I try to talk about our problems he says cruel things and is highly critical of me. It definitely feels like he's trying to be mean, but he says he's just being honest. It could be that, some people are just more blunt

6. If I mention anything good that I have ever done he casts that as the past

7. If I ask a question or try to engage him in conversation, he frowns, or looks angry, leaving me wondering whether I have done something wrong, said something out of turn, I don't know. It's strange, it just seems like me just being me is enough to make him exasperated. On word answers. Like blood from a stone.

8. Says he's leaving, and he has half moved out.

There's more, but on the whole it makes me feel stupid, boring, ugly, unwanted, unloveable around him. I actually don't think I am a bad looking woman, I think I'm ok actually! Around other people I am still me, laugh, jokey, chatty, I don't think most people would know how incredibly sad I am. Around other men I still feel attractive, I don't think I am ugly, I'm at least average(!) But around him, I have noticed if he walks into room I might walk out just because I think he dislikes me so much I don't want to be in his sight. I feel like he's disgusted by me. The feeling that someone dislikes me just makes me want to disappear or run and hide, and I think it is especially because he used to love me. Around him I feel shit. I've got so little confidence. In other areas of my life, I'm ok.

Now, I had never thought any of this was abusive as such, mainly because I have thought maybe other women wouldn't feel this bad, they'd be more resilient or stronger, and it is just me. I've been thinking about it today. If someone punches you, you bruise, some skin tones might hide it, but it would show on me and many of us. The evidence of the hurt is clear cut and obvious, obvious cause and effect. But this is emotional, and I guess I think some other women wouldn't be so badly impacted by it, so it's got a lot to do with me the way I am feeling. If I said to him 'this is abusive, the mean things you say and do' he would deny it. He would say it wasn't his intention.

So last night, no sorry, the night before, he accused me of not making much of an effort around Christmas. He is right, I kind of stepped back and just let him lead on everything. This is really unlike me. But I was just petrified of doing anything wrong and I just thought if I am led by him, if I don't initiate I can't upset him and he won't be mean to me. But then he criticised me for not doing enough and I just broke down in tears and told him I'm often too scared to speak or do anything through fear of drawing criticism, or upsetting him which would lead to a feeling of hostility or tension, and as I said it I realised that I'm kind of broken around him. Not elsewhere, just around him. And it's weird, that argument we had 3 years ago, we both said things, but I've reconciled what he said to me, he apologised, I accepted. I apologised, but he hasn't accepted, he says that actually what I said just shows I'm not the one for him, we're on different 'wavelengths' and our relationship just won't work. So what he said is done and dusted, but what I said will never be so. It's part of who I am, it revealed my character. And everytime that argument is mentioned, I end up apologising again, he says ' I don't want you to apologise again', but then what else am I supposed to do? It was 3 years ago. I can't forever be punished for it, can I? It's just forever held against me, and the reason my children will now be raised by separated parents. And I feel awful about it, it's all my fault. That somehow I've got to save the relationship.

Since I cried a couple of nights ago he has changed, actually. And on that night he said 'the things you are saying about how you feel, it's like you're making out I'm beating you or I'm one of those men'. At the time I said 'no, I've never said you have beaten me'. But after what my friend said, I now wonder whether I am displaying some of the signs of a crushed woman. I'm rattled by it. My sister was in a physical DV relationship and I vowed that would never happen to me, and so the idea that my relationship is or has been abusive it's unsettling to say the least.

Look, this has been a long post. And it's worth saying he's not always engaging in these behaviours, but they aren't rare, at all.

And the past two days he has been much nicer, and I can feel a relief in my body. I noticed I wasn't worried as much when I was around him. At one point I was with the kids and I laughed with them while he was in the car driving with us and I hadn't done that in ages.

Yes he is punishing you and you are being emotionally abused.

What happened 3 years ago, what was the argument about, was it something he had to forgive you for?

It honestly sounds as though you are terrified of him, walking on eggshells, trying to appease him.
He has told you he doesn't love you, is there a reason you don't believe him.

Whatever the reasons for things changing 3 years ago, you need to be away from him and his bullying and scapegoating you.

Tell him you no longer can put up with his abuse and stop doing things for him, just as he withdraws love from you as and when he wants.

Draw a line and stop being his wife as he is not respecting you as a wife.

Pretty much all falls under emotional abuse.

It is also called 'the cycle of abuse' because if abusers were abusive 24/7, no one would stay with them.

Occasionally being nice is a tactic to keep you feeling confused. To keep you looking inwards, thinking 'am I misunderstanding him? Am I the problem?'

Everything asside though op, your relationship with him is miserable. Why does it need to be abuse for you to leave?

Would you want your kids growing up thinking its normal for a woman to tolerate this shit? Do you want them to find themselves in the same sort of relationships?

Time for you to go op.
He can still be a father without being your partner. Because let's face it, he is not a partner to you anyway. He is a jailer. A jailer who hates you.

Get out of there.

It's interesting how so many people need categories into which they can place behaviours.

If you are unhappy in your relationship, you'd be wise to leave. What good is there in staying?

It sounds as if you actually despise each other so staying together is pretty sick.

Hi,

It's 4 am and I just can't sleep because I feel so rattled.

I don't want to go into the argument because then people will wade in and some will say he's a dick, I'm a dick etc. It was an argument. Not as bad as some arguments I've heard about, but then we weren't the big arguments type of couple, so any argument always felt quite bad. We'd usually stip arguing quite quickly and make up. We did on this occasion too, but he didn't forgive me. So for the first 6 months I didn't even know he was still upset, I was completely lost about why he was acting the way he was.

I do believe he doesn't love me anymore. he says he is only here now (isn) for the kids, but he says he wants the relationship to end now. But even in this latest conversation, he was just so mean. I don't get it. Why the meanness? It's been three years.

I just feel like I have no value in this relationship. Honestly, after what my friend said, I feel ashamed. I can't really explain it. I feel stupid. SA but of me even feels bad that I've made him this cold, hard person towards me. I know that sounds mad.

It really feels like he is still hurting and wants me to hurt, but I put that to him and he said it wasn't true. But his face said it all. And I just sat there thinking 'what end does he wasn't this to come to?' Like honestly, what more can I do? 15 years of being a great partner to him. Then this argument, and since then I just feel like he's been hammering away at me. My very existence seems to annoy him. In my head recently I thought 'I wonder whether he would be happier with me dead?'

And I am so sad I think things like that because I know that's not a healthy mind.

I'm in a really sad place.

He's obviously holding a grudge about whatever it is you said and refuses to get past it. I don't understand why he stays though if you disgust him so much.

I have a relative who can do this. Like it doesn't matter how fantastic the relationship was before, they can latch onto a throwaway comment and their feelings change forever. It's like Jekyll and Hyde, and it's disorientating and makes you feel unstable in the relationship. Interestingly though, if it suits them and benefits them in some way, they will keep that person around and simply make their lives miserable jumping through ever moving hoops.

Really, you should separate. Have you spoken about it? He clearly doesn't want to make the relationship work and you sound like you will be so much happier and lighter without him.

Op, do you want to know why he treats you the way he does?

It's not because he is hurting.
It's not because you've done something wrong.
It's not because there are misunderstandings.

It's because he is not a nice human being.
It really is that simple.

He says hurtful things because he wants to hurt you. Because, say it with me now - he is not a nice human being.

Think about it this way, why do bullies continually hang around and bully one particular child? Is it love? No. They do it because they ENJOY the way bullying their victim makes them feel. It is the same in abusive relationships. He says he has no feelings for u anymore and yet, he hangs around. Why? Because you are his victim.

You do not understand him because you are probably a nice, normal person who is capable of empathy and compassion. He, is not. He is a cold, empty place.

You cannot change you, to fix him.
Because he is not broken. He is just not like you.
He is a lion and you are a lamb. You could never hope to understand him. So please for the love of goodness, STOP hanging around and trying to.

Be kind to yourself, show yourself the love and loyalty and kindness you have wasted on this jackass for far too long. Give yourself permission to walk away.

Because you are worthy of love.
And please believe in yourself because - your feelings are valid. And you have every right to them.

What @Pinkbonbon said. Especially this:

Be kind to yourself, show yourself the love and loyalty and kindness you have wasted on this jackass for far too long. Give yourself permission to walk away

Op he is emotionally abusive. He is treating you with contempt and worse still he is teaching your children to do the same. They are learning from him every time he ignores you and excludes you and bullies you.

I'm in a really sad place

And he knows this.

He enjoys you being upset, it is intentional and he knows full well what his actions do to you.

He is not a kind man, some people are not and you will never change him.
Really you must understand this, there is no problem to sovle, nothing to fix because you cannot make someone nice who has a bad heart.

You would do well to disengage from him, just as you would a stranger on the street who is nasty, and don't worry about losing him, he will do the same to someone else they always do.

Their abusive ways are inate.
Now sleep knowing there is nothing you can do to make him a good person, it wasn't your fault you were just unlucky to have met a cunt.

He hates you. You need to get away from him

Silent treatment. For example, waking up in the morning and saying good morning to all of the children, but not me

He plays with the children or does things with them in a way that makes me feel left out. It's like he has built this world around them and only they are involved in that world, I don't exist

OP, he’s emotionally abusing you in front of your children. He’s emotionally abusing you using your children. Excluding you by obviously only including them.

Your children are learning from both of you (him by doing it, you by saying nothing) that this behaviour is acceptable. They will grow up to either perpetuate this behaviour to others, or willingly accept it from others. Get out of this relationship now, for your children’s sake. His behaviour is poison for the future mental health of your children….

He’s been emotionally abusive to you for three years and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of this behaviour happened even before the argument

Your friend is right; and she sounds supportive so trust her whilst you plan to leave him

He saw you break and it's fixed something in his head for a bit. This niceness won't last.

Yes he's been abusing you for years. The silent treatment is abuse on its own

The bigger picture is your kids are learning how to do relationships. Is this what you want for your kids?

He's half moved out, make it permanent and concentrate on healing yourself.

As PPs have said, you're in an emotionally abusive relationship. He has been holding you hostage with his abuse. There is nothing you can do to fix it because you have done NOTHING wrong. He is abusing you so he can control you.

It will be hard to get out but it will be worth it in the end because you and your kids all deserve better than this POS.

My ex was emotionally abusive. When I finally got away, my head was SO messed up, but having those words to hold on to - "emotionally abusive relationship" - helped me to stay strong because I didn't want to continue to live my life being abused. I had such great hopes for my life before that. The first months away from him were HARD, psychologically. I was in a prison of fear, couldn't read books or listen to music because I was scared it would give me ideas that would "upset him" (even though he was no longer there, he still lived in my head). If I drank, I blacked out and had rages, and I couldn't have an orgasm for years without crying (some of his abuse tactics were sexual). Emotional abuse changes your brain but over time you will heal.

My ex was 14 years ago, and I've now been with DH for 12 years, extremely happily. I thank my lucky stars every day I got out. I hope you can too, immediately. You do not deserve any of this ❤️

Yep he's abusive. He's destroying you. He doesnt need to hit you. He's got you where he wants you using psychological warfare. And he's using your children to do it. If he's half moved out, let him fully move out. See the life you could have without him.

It doesn't matter if it's a bad relationship or an abusive relationship.

It seems so incredibly dysfunctional- you both say terrible things to each other. You are also doing things that could be construed in a negative way ( leaving when he enters the room).
Honestly- why hang around to dissect it? Just go.

He’s cruel isn’t he. No one that loved you would continue to treat you in this way.
It’s not healthy for you or the children.
You need to detach from him.
He’s not left has he - fucker!!!
If he expressed being unhappy just say “ you can leave” - see how he responds to that.

Read the Lundy Bancroft book Why does he do that - inside the minds of angry and controlling men. You don't have to buy it it's in pdf format on the internet.

They don't have to beat you to be abusive

You are petrified of him. That's all you need to know.

You need to separate. If not for you, then for your children. This toxic environment will be emotionally harming them too.

No love, no care, no sex - what is the point of him in your life? Divorce him for a happier life, it really is the only answer.

Op do you know you are allowed to be happy and live in peace?

Yes, he's abusive. The silent treatment alone is a well-known form of abuse.

You're already damaging your kids by bringing them up in this toxic atmosphere.

Leave. You will be much happier.

You said something bad you shouldn't have said 3 years ago.
He has now spent 3 years saying cruel things, 'othering' you to your own children, holding a grudge making sure the wound started open and could never heal.

He hasn't
modeled forgiveness to his children.
Honoured his own feelings by living honestly (says he doesn't love or desire you but continues to live as your partner)
Given you a chance to repair the problem by stating his hurt and what it would take to trust and forgive again. Instead he just punishes you with no end.
Maybe he's doing it for the kids but if he thinks this benefits them he's mistaken because they might have both parents under one roof but they're learning all kinds of unpleasant minds games here. They are learning to please their father they must shun their mother (during certain games etc)

This is a man who puts a grudge above all things, can't forgive and thinks it's justified because you upset him. There is nothing to admire in his behaviour and the 'why' is basically because he is psychologically capable of extended mental cruelty.
Most people couldn't live in an atmosphere like that of their own making.
You'd get a shorter sentence for greater crimes in a court.
Even if his love for you is dead, the love he once has, the love his children have for you should at least make him treat you fairly even if he can't get past it and leaves. It isn't enough, so he's just cruel.
Really sorry you're in this situation. I hope you can properly seperate and Co-parent without all this. You might need to help your children understand what has happened, that it isn't OK and treating someone like that isn't OK. Which will be tricky given he's their dad.
Most children instinctively know this are scared if could be them and relieved when it is identified as what it is - cruel and unacceptable.

He’s bullying you because he can and because it’s now a habit and he enjoys the thrill it gives him and the ego boost he gets. It’s addictive. He probably doesn’t enough really know fully he’s doing it but breaking you down appeases his anger at the argument. Some people can’t bear to feel any sense of shame or guilt and so they go to OTT stubbornness and anger to avoid feeling and difficult emotions. By being the way he is, your husband avoids feeling any difficult emotions., he gets to punish you and elevate his own sense of righteousness. It’s gone too far. He’s turned nasty and there really isn’t anyway back. He doesn’t care about your feelings anymore and it paves the way for him to have an affair as he’s the poor man who has an awful wife and how he has suffered and tried. It’s just classic. You are at the lowest point and really you need to now take that huge leap and get out and build your life and self confidence back up without this awful marriage holding you back.