Does a narcissist know that they are a narcissist?

[YouPrettyThings]

Just that really, do they actually recognise and understand their own behaviour as being narcissistic? And what about gaslighters - do they really know they are deceitful and manipulative or maybe their mental health issues make them believe their own lies?

I've finally realised someone I know is both, yet I believe they have absolutely no idea and while they cause harm I don't think they mean any harm... if that makes sense.

Generally, people hold beliefs to justify their behaviour to themselves. Equally, people who do bad things tend not to admit to it because they do not want society to label them a "bad person" . We all have an intrinsic need to believe we are good.

I don't think it's as simple as "not meaning harm" vs "meaning harm" just like I don't think there are "good people" vs "bad people".

Yes. They know.

I don't know. My ex firmly believes he is superior to everyone. And we are all just plebs. There is no shaking his ideology in anyway. He even thinks his parents are beneath him. He would argue black is white.

My guess would be no. They think everyone else is the narcissist

Probably not. Most of the narcissists I know are vunerable narcissists, so they attack others when they feel shame. The need to attack others and the need to deny all responsibility is so great that they will live in denial for years and years. They attack others to protect themselves and believe that the ends justify their means.

I suspect grandiose narcissists may know that they are one but I've never had much dealing with them.

Some of them don't give it any thought. Some of them know they aren't neurotypical, but just dont care.

It's not that they never know, it's that it's completely irrelevant to them.

@Colourmeclear

Probably not. Most of the narcissists I know are vunerable narcissists, so they attack others when they feel shame. The need to attack others and the need to deny all responsibility is so great that they will live in denial for years and years. They attack others to protect themselves and believe that the ends justify their means.

I suspect grandiose narcissists may know that they are one but I've never had much dealing with them.

That's really insightful, thank you

@Georgeskitchen

My guess would be no. They think everyone else is the narcissist

Yes, everyone else will have narcissism traits but them. They’ll have very grandiose beliefs about themselves

I've often wondered this myself.

My ds first secondary school gaslighted me and broke me. The SLT seemed to genuinely believe their own hype and lies and I still to this day struggle to comprehend why people with that attitude want to run schools?

There was a definite air of power trip.

Colourme that completely nails it. Great post.

I was raised by someone who I now understand was deeply narcissistic. Growing up I had no language for what I experienced other than I felt unhappy.

Having said that, I think I became very narcissistic as was the behaviour modelled to me.

I try to be mindful of my behaviour but I suspect I slip into narcissism during times of stress.

So I suspect a lot of deeply narcissistic people are not at all aware, I think they are emotionally fragile and employ all sorts of unhealthy behaviours to maintain control because the alternative would be unbearable. I mean, lack of self awareness is kind of the central flaw.

Some will, many probably won't. But at the same time, there will be specific things they do which they will know at the time of doing it will harm the person - they might justify it to themselves as that person deserving something bad, or that they were not to blame ie they blame the person who they harm ("if they had not done x i wouldn't have done this, it is their fault"). They can often be very charming and get others to vindicate their behaviour, them acting as the victim enacting justifiable revenge, too.

If someone has been assessed and diagnosed they will of course be aware, and it is possible that they will be motivated at that point to understand their behaviour and its effect on others better and through therapy gain insight and quite possible make changes.

But it seems to be people with trauma from childhood which was pretty much buried and the person enabled by someone through guilt, so the fact that so much would be buried would mean that it is likely the person does not have good insight into themselves, usually.

Ime they are often dangerous and unpredictable people, not people you could try to talk to or help without taking personal risks.

My ex knew he was one, but he thought it was almost a prerequisite for being successful as all his bosses are also clearly massively narcissistic. One time he and his DB & SIL did a quiz and all came out with “celebrity” levels of narcissism, which they all found hilarious.

But of course if I called him out on it during an argument, it was unacceptable. He could call me crazy/a cunt/hormonal etc but if I called him a narc it was the worst thing I could possibly say and I’d over-stepped. Difference is I stopped saying it, while he continues with all of his insults. Hence he’s an ex.

@Georgeskitchen

My guess would be no. They think everyone else is the narcissist

This. Completely this.

Ex accuses me of being a narcissist. Even though both myself and two of his ex's have called him out on his narcissistic behaviour.

I think the term is thrown around a lot for people who behave selfishly or are generally cruel.

I have only ever met two true narcissists who were screened into the disorder by psychology. They were both very different from anyone else I have ever met.

Personality disorders are based on a collection of traits, we all have them, but if you have enough you're put into a category of the disorder.

Plenty of people we meet and come across hold some or a lot of these traits and are arseholes, but that doesn't make them true narcissists.

For a narcissist to operate the way they do, the completely lack empathy or the ability to connect/ feel/ love in the ways they see others do. They absolutelt know they are ‘different’ because of this.
The techniques the narcissists develop (mirroring/ love bombing) are very deliberate and conscious techniques. Their manipulation is honed and deliberate. It’s not chance and luck.

When a narcissist takes time to get to know you, know you’re inner secrets so they can use them against you. Again, that’s not some thing done by chance. It’s deliberate.

Of course if you confront a narc they will deny it. Doesn’t mean they aren’t fully aware deep down that they are deeply damaged human beings. They will know.

The couple I know have no clue. They just rewrite things in their head to justify their behaviour and blame someone else. If they are confronted by evidence they will tantrum and deflect and then seek revenge, but I believe that they truly buy into their 'lie' where they are an innocent party. It helps them if they recruit other people into believing their lies so it gives them some sort of back up and makes it more real.

@DeclineandFall

The couple I know have no clue. They just rewrite things in their head to justify their behaviour and blame someone else. If they are confronted by evidence they will tantrum and deflect and then seek revenge, but I believe that they truly buy into their 'lie' where they are an innocent party. It helps them if they recruit other people into believing their lies so it gives them some sort of back up and makes it more real.

Yes I agree with that observation.

My ex is a definite narcissist. When I worked up the courage to call him one he laughed and found it hilarious. After he went away and researched what it actually meant he found it even more funny and kept bringing up little jokes about it as though it was a title to be proud of. Maybe he picked out the words he feels are positive traits like ambitious and successful?!

He definitely knows when he's gaslighting. I am 100% sure of that because it's part of his game plan to confuse people, get them to believe his lies and keep the illusion running.

It's the abuse that I'm not so certain of. Sometimes I think it's just learned behaviour from his mum (who is mostly lovely) to get people to like him. He was spoiled and put on a pedestal as a child due to lots of childhood illnesses and him being the youngest which is where I feel this stemmed from. He is a compulsive liar too which is so extreme that I often wonder whether his whole life is one big gaslight illusion?!

Gosh, I'm sure a psychologist could write a whole book on him because I can tie myself in knots trying to figure him out. Nowadays I don't waste much headspace on it though. Who cares about the what's and the whys. They're fucking toxic knobheads and that's all we need to know!

I've just left a narcissist. Had an idea he was a narcissist but I wouldn't at that point of said he was a definite narc.

I'm having therapy for the issues he put me through. I've been completely honest with how things were and my counsellor says he sounds more like a narcissist every time I tell her something.

My exH won't have a clue what a narcissist is so he doesn't know he is one. He is however very clever in his behaviour. He knows exactly what he's doing and how to manipulate me.

I've literally just got off a FaceTime to him with DS and he's just completely gas lighted me over the phone.

So I do believe they are clever, they know what they are doing.

My dad is also a narcissist, feel like I'm surrounded by them!

@sassbott i thought that the mirroring/lovebombing was a trait of antisocial personality disorder? Not that I am an expert! I try to avoid both types if at all possible! Maybe it is both.

I don't know that they do. My mother who is one of the most defensive people you could image, she deflects shame outwards so fast, she has no conscious awareness that there was feedback she could have reflected on. Her ego is so quick to protect her from any uncomfortable thought that it instantly leaps to blame somebody else. (me)

Another relative, she has been giving me the silent treatment for over a year. I think she thinks she's meting out justice (because I pointed out that she was being so warm to all of our relatives but being cold/ignoring me). And she just upped to a full on silent treatment. Both my mother and cousin consider themselves the victim of me, pretty sure of it.

I've read that they can't fathom their own behaviour so mistreat their victim in order to experience their feelings.

@Colourmeclear

Probably not. Most of the narcissists I know are vunerable narcissists, so they attack others when they feel shame. The need to attack others and the need to deny all responsibility is so great that they will live in denial for years and years. They attack others to protect themselves and believe that the ends justify their means.

I suspect grandiose narcissists may know that they are one but I've never had much dealing with them.

Yes, I agree with this as well. It's the reason my mother will accept zero feedback. None. EVER.

I told her that she hurt me and she has made herself the victim of me now for the last 20 months, stonewalled, me accused me of every cold hearted cruelty under the sun, trashed me to all of our relatives. All because I told her that she hurt me.

She doesn't even know that she experienced shame though, she martyred up so fast.

It's more than likely that it is ASD or dyspraxia. What are the symptoms?