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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Does a narcissist know that they are a narcissist?

87 replies

YouPrettyThings · 31/12/2021 19:43

Just that really, do they actually recognise and understand their own behaviour as being narcissistic? And what about gaslighters - do they really know they are deceitful and manipulative or maybe their mental health issues make them believe their own lies?

I've finally realised someone I know is both, yet I believe they have absolutely no idea and while they cause harm I don't think they mean any harm... if that makes sense.

OP posts:

13yearslater · 31/12/2021 22:05

This is what I have been told my mnetters who helped me understand that I am a shit mother and he has disabilities.

Bairnsmum05 · 31/12/2021 22:10

I work in a clinical area where I come across men with this diagnosis. No I don't think they do. They know that's part of their diagnosis but have little insight into this.

WoodenReindeer · 31/12/2021 22:13

Yep my mums like that. Makes out thats shes the victim and must really believe it. But then that makes me panic !

Onthedunes · 31/12/2021 22:15

There are many levels of intellegence in the human race, many I believe will never know if you wish to label them.

Some narcs are highly intellegent and will know precisely the traits they have, their traits being as matter as fact as knowing the periodic table for instance. They know who they are, what they are and are proud of the fact they have no emotions.

My husband is a narcisist but would never aknowledge himself as one, he would find a therapist's office the biggest waste of his time ever and he would run rings round them anyway. He was once sent on an anger management course which involved him speaking to a councellor, he ended up befriending her and taking her out for lunch.
It worked a treat for him.

The only thing you need to know about them is to stay well away from them, they don't care about anything.

Stay Clear.

eagerlywaitingfor · 31/12/2021 22:25

I'm now convinced that my ex was a narcissist. As well as being bipolar.

He once tried to describe his feelings to me by saying that if he stuck a pin in himself it hurt, so his feelings exist, but if he stuck a pin in someone else (ie: me) he felt nothing, therefore their pain or feelings didn't exist. So he could do what he liked to other people, because it didn't hurt him.

Blue4YOU · 31/12/2021 22:35

I know one classic vulnerable narcissist.
Someone called him a narcissist once (an ex) - the rage and hatred…! Knew no bounds.
Recently my DH and I went no contact with him.
I was subjected to vitriol and abuse like you wouldn’t believe- he has no idea he’s a narcissist.
He is very childish in wanting what he wants when he wants it.. thinks he’s owed sex, thinks everyone fancies him (men and women and he is bisexual), needs to show how clever he is, always turns a conversation to himself and his interest me, says massively inappropriate things re sex, calls people stupid and/or boring.
He cannot maintain a relationship.
He cannot maintain a job - but it’s every one else’s fault. The editor who refused his work was stupid, the academics who wrote the books he used on his courses received emails that told them how inept they were.
He’d think nothing of shagging (if he could) someone while being in a relationship if he felt they were younger and thinner than his current partner because that’s what he values.
He thinks he’s very good looking- he isn’t.
He had enforced a 20 year “friendship “ on me and I know his way of thinking intimately.
He thinks emotions - except his - are made up, exaggerated and not rational so don’t count.
He’s broken up with a woman because her ears were too big.
They are vile, vile people.
But I’d say they don’t know what they are: and they don’t care

Obsidiansphere · 31/12/2021 22:42

I’ve read analysis of narcissists by a writer who claims to be a narcissist himself, therefore can identify their behaviour. He maintains that narcissism can be low level, moderate or high and that some are aware and others don’t have the insight to understand their behaviour.
I don’t think I’ve ever met a narc who knows/admits they are one.

Obsidiansphere · 31/12/2021 22:46

I’d like to add that fil and bil are narcissists and blow up if you ever question/call their behaviour and absolutely won’t have it.

WhoAre · 31/12/2021 22:56

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

ladygoingGaga · 31/12/2021 23:00

I genuinely believe they don’t know, they justify their actions against their beliefs, one of the biggest tells is that they can never think they may be wrong.
My ex could not believe I was leaving him, that his controlling and coercive behaviour was not reason enough, he was convinced there was someone else, he put his values on me, he stalked me for months convinced I was seeing someone else, ironically he was the one having an affair.

kelseypops · 31/12/2021 23:12

@ladygoingGaga

I genuinely believe they don’t know, they justify their actions against their beliefs, one of the biggest tells is that they can never think they may be wrong. My ex could not believe I was leaving him, that his controlling and coercive behaviour was not reason enough, he was convinced there was someone else, he put his values on me, he stalked me for months convinced I was seeing someone else, ironically he was the one having an affair.

Wow this is my life right now!

kelseypops · 31/12/2021 23:15

For anyone wondering about narcissist's - watch videos on YouTube from the Mental Healness channel.

The guy on there is diagnosed as a narcissist - he's absolutely fascinating but not in a bad way. His videos are helping me come to terms with my abusive marriage

Nailsbythesea · 31/12/2021 23:21

@sassbott

For a narcissist to operate the way they do, the completely lack empathy or the ability to connect/ feel/ love in the ways they see others do. They absolutelt know they are ‘different’ because of this. The techniques the narcissists develop (mirroring/ love bombing) are very deliberate and conscious techniques. Their manipulation is honed and deliberate. It’s not chance and luck.

When a narcissist takes time to get to know you, know you’re inner secrets so they can use them against you. Again, that’s not some thing done by chance. It’s deliberate.

Of course if you confront a narc they will deny it. Doesn’t mean they aren’t fully aware deep down that they are deeply damaged human beings. They will know.

This.

I have met many and they are more common then you think.

My father is certainly one. He has no friends. Was at the top of his career -like politics and bullied and love bombed others at will. He was certainly formed by family background.

He can not cope with anyone standing up to him -and will either beat them verbally into an mental hospital or use his fists -if he can't do either of these. He cuts them off completely and will never EVER speak to them again -EVER.

He is a very very very dangerous man.

He bread crumbs affection -and yes he knows what he is doing -but he can't help himself =it's like a wold smelling blood.

As soon as I stood up to him and put boundaries in -he cut me dead. He is in his 80s and apart from my mother has no one. He was grooming my eldest as his protege -and she bit back and called him on it. And cut him off. She was lucky she saw him for what he was.

Bouledeneige · 31/12/2021 23:40

My ex BF was a covert narcissist. He displayed a number of classic symptoms;

he would never say sorry
he was manipulative and could love bomb and spin a yarn to get what he wanted
he displayed public acts of generosity and kindness but in our relationship he couldn't put me first, ever
he would abandon me when we were far from home and I was feeling vulnerable because he still wanted to drink with his pals or not be beholden to anyone else's needs
when he felt humiliated or embarrassed he was meaner to me and blamed me
he gaslighted me and laughed in my face when I cried in response to his unkindness - 'this is what you do' he said - my response was the problem
he believed he was badly done by and he had always been treated unfairly - because as a child he was poor and everyone had more than him and throughout his career he'd been overlooked or badly treated which explained why he hadn't advanced as much as he wanted.

Later when I left the relationship he accused me of being a narcissist. He had a therapist and I suspect he might have known his own diagnosis. But he could turn everything on its head and re-direct all his flaws on other people.

gottastopeatingchocolate · 31/12/2021 23:47

Narcissism is a spectrum, so there are many many people showing high narcissistic traits, while few who would meet the criteria of NPD, if they ever got near enough to a psychologist to get diagnosed.

The vast majority are unaware that they are narcissistic. They would certainly see themselves as special.

RobertSmithsLipstick · 31/12/2021 23:50

I'm sure my ex had some insight into his behaviours.
To his credit, he did try and warn me off at the start, but I thought I knew better.

LoveFall · 01/01/2022 00:14

I have a close family member who is always saying their ex partner is a narcissist, quite vociferously. Having had a front row seat for decades, I don't think ex partner is the narcissist, I think the accuser is.

It is very strange to watch.

nbsorted · 03/01/2022 14:27

@kelseypops

For anyone wondering about narcissist's - watch videos on YouTube from the Mental Healness channel.

The guy on there is diagnosed as a narcissist - he's absolutely fascinating but not in a bad way. His videos are helping me come to terms with my abusive marriage

@kelseypops I took your recommendation and had a look. It was really, really interesting, as you say. One of the ones I watched was the one about grey rocking - he talked about the technique and how it can work, about how it wouldn't work on him and what he'd do if you tried it, how you need to be careful with it as if the narc is violent it could make them angry and violent (he isn't violent) and then the whole thing turned, he became like a different person as he addressed people who had been rude to him on twitter, losing his temper about it. The other videos he did were really helpful and interesting too. I remember the one about how narcs respond to people crying.

This is one by a man diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder which is similar and really interesting too, in case it helps - there is crossover in many people apparently although the two disorders are different - he also has been in therapy:

I do think that helping us understand what is going on in their heads is so good, so helpful.

toobusytothink · 03/01/2022 14:33

“My guess would be no. They think everyone else is the narcissist”

“This. Completely this.

Ex accuses me of being a narcissist. Even though both myself and two of his ex's have called him out on his narcissistic behaviour.”

Ditto! My OH’s ex has even had counselling about how to deal with a narcissist despite the fact that she is the one who is a narcissist (and I’m not being biased - I have seen the messages)

Nov910 · 03/01/2022 14:59

This ^ I don’t honestly think they understand what pain they cause mentally. They turn it wound in their own beds to justify things so they aren’t the bad guy. Dreadful behaviour

AuntMasha · 03/01/2022 15:02

My experience with a covert one is that they are unable to take responsibility for their unkind or thoughtless behaviour and will even pout or stamp their feet and try to blame someone else if called out on it. When you try to draw a boundary with then they will deliberately trample all over it and then punish you. They bait — that is they know how to press your buttons and will do so, but if you react they will point at you and say you are the unreasonable one. They are charming to people’s faces but are vicious about those same people behind their backs. They can spin a hard luck story to get you to feel sorry for them and give them money. They are inveterate liars. Ime, they copied everything I wore, everything I did, every hobby I took up, everything I was passionate about. Gah. It was horrible, glad I’m out of it now.

Onthedunes · 03/01/2022 17:25

@AuntMasha

I agree with the copying and immitation, it's like they are blank characters who like to seep your personality from you, whether they be friends or lovers.

I think many narccisistic partners tend to suck the joy out of their spouses and by the time the partners have been used to full capacity and have ceased to be fun or uplifting anymore, they move on to someone they can leach off again, in as many ways as they can.

Just a theory.

Nov910 · 03/01/2022 18:03

@AuntMasha couldn’t have written it better myself. Very damaging people

samyeagar · 03/01/2022 18:07

@middleofthelittle

I think the term is thrown around a lot for people who behave selfishly or are generally cruel.

I have only ever met two true narcissists who were screened into the disorder by psychology. They were both very different from anyone else I have ever met.

Personality disorders are based on a collection of traits, we all have them, but if you have enough you're put into a category of the disorder.

Plenty of people we meet and come across hold some or a lot of these traits and are arseholes, but that doesn't make them true narcissists.

This.

My ex wife is a clinically diagnosed narcissist and if very different from what most people casually call a "narcissist"

One of the hallmarks of a true narcissist, and part of the disorder that is related to the absence of empathy is also the lack of self awareness, so almost by definition, a true narcissist is not capable of self recognition. That is what makes a true narcissist so dangerous and destructive. They are simply not capable of self recognition and self reflection which is why there is no treatment or cure...that part of their personality is simple missing.

coodawoodashooda · 03/01/2022 18:15

How on earth did you manage to get your ex wife diagnosed?

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