Does a narcissist know that they are a narcissist?

[YouPrettyThings]

Just that really, do they actually recognise and understand their own behaviour as being narcissistic? And what about gaslighters - do they really know they are deceitful and manipulative or maybe their mental health issues make them believe their own lies?

I've finally realised someone I know is both, yet I believe they have absolutely no idea and while they cause harm I don't think they mean any harm... if that makes sense.

Definitely no empathy. Mine would see me upset and just look at me. If he’d caused me to be upset he wouldn’t acknowledge it.
He had little tolerance and was impatient with things that wouldn’t go his way. Very sad in ways

@samyeagar totally spot on. I think its why people find it so difficult to understand the situation they're in with them. How hard it is to leave. Most people, when they've done something hurtful will be guilty. Sheepish. Anything. The man I knew was with never was... Its a complete blindspot. Their actions get assigned to all sorts of virtuous reasons 'in the long run im doing it for the best' 'this felt right'. It makes sense that many narcissistic types are classically virtuous community types. Charities. Churches. Community groups.

One thing I noticed was there was a total lack of shame.

I dated a ‘famous in his field’ academic psychologist, mostly long distance, for a year or two. He was interested and able to acknowledge that he had some of the attributes of a narcissist on an intellectual level, but not that he exhibited behaviours on a practical level. In practice, he was a gas lighting, cheating, silent treatment giving, love bombing, future faking, manipulative, piece of shit, and I’m only grateful I didn’t waste more time on him.

[quote Onthedunes]@samyeagar

I agree with your last post.

For interest do you believe narcissism is a result of nature or nurture.

For instance one of our children has very high traits of narcissism but whether it's due to genes or envoiroment `I don't know, maybe both.

They are aware of their differences to others in how they feel, an aknowledgement, their views on how others are weak for having emotions that are of no use.

I know no lover of theirs could ever hurt them, they seem impenatrable.[/quote]
Nature vs Nurture...boy that's a tough one, that obviously my experience is personal augmented with my own research into it, so hardly authoritative.

That said, I have known my ex wife since she was 16, and we were both very young when we started our relationship, so I did not have a whole lot of experience there. Young and dumb. I didn't know better, but looking back through the entire time I have known her, the signs were all there, even from that young age, so in that regard, I think nature had to play a significant part. Though on the nurture side, she had a very rough home life, so no doubt nurture did not do her any favours.

[quote supercali77]@samyeagar totally spot on. I think its why people find it so difficult to understand the situation they're in with them. How hard it is to leave. Most people, when they've done something hurtful will be guilty. Sheepish. Anything. The man I knew was with never was... Its a complete blindspot. Their actions get assigned to all sorts of virtuous reasons 'in the long run im doing it for the best' 'this felt right'. It makes sense that many narcissistic types are classically virtuous community types. Charities. Churches. Community groups.

One thing I noticed was there was a total lack of shame.[/quote]
It is a mindfuck like no other, and is completely incomprehensible unless one has actually experienced it first hand.

I was fortunate in that I did not get dragged down into the self doubt crazymaking that so many others do. It was more 20 years of being in a constant fight or flight mode state of anxiety, having to actively stay focused on actual reality and what I knew to be true, and not let the self doubt created in her reality overwhelm me.

@samyeagar yes, their model of reality is incredibly powerful (no self doubt, unlike the rest of us plebs). I realised he (my dd's dad) had something seriously....different about him for a lot of it but in reality it took years after, talking to his family, his ex, us all connecting dots over the years to realise how deep it all went.

Yes my mother gives silent treatments to avoid a reasonable conversation where she might have to take some accountability.
The silent treatment must run in my family and a cousin of mine gave me the silent treatment. Classic levelling behaviour. I had dared to notice that she had 2 peronalities on the go, love bombing people who are well liked and popular who will reflect well on her and ignoring /talking over /excluding / correcting people she considers beneath her if they dont realise they are beneath her

Thinking how id sum it up. It is intolerable to them to recognise themselves as less than perfect.

Most of us realise we are a**eholes at times. It doesn't feel nice but we can accept the ugly reality of who we may sometimes be. I actually don't think they can do it.

@unicornsarereal72

I don't know. My ex firmly believes he is superior to everyone. And we are all just plebs. There is no shaking his ideology in anyway. He even thinks his parents are beneath him. He would argue black is white.

mine too.

@supercali77

Thinking how id sum it up. It is intolerable to them to recognise themselves as less than perfect.

Most of us realise we are a**eholes at times. It doesn't feel nice but we can accept the ugly reality of who we may sometimes be. I actually don't think they can do it.

You are spot on with "I actually don't think they can do it" What we see as their behaviour, which for us can be actively and consciously controlled and considered, for them, it is reflexive. It is their natural state of being. They are no more able to consider their behaviour than you and I are able to control our heart beating.

Which again, hits at the root of why they are impossible to deal with normally. When we engage in an interaction, we go into it with the assumption that the other person is self aware in the same way we are. That they are capable of self reflection, especially if behaviour is called out or questioned. We have an expectation the other person might feel empathy, guilt, shame, even basic consideration that they might be wrong, even in a non negative interaction. And as soon as that interaction begins, many people don't realize that they have stepped into another reality where the normal rules no longer apply.

My ex shows zero empathy, he cannot understand why I was so annoyed that he cheated on me the next door neighbour. He see that he’s done anything wrong and thinks I’ve turned our 16 year old son against him. He is a 100% narcissist his latest is telling people I have spent all of his redundancy which is a complete lie. He will do anything to make himself look better.

My ex shows zero empathy, he cannot understand why I was so annoyed that he cheated on me with the next door neighbour. He cannot see that he’s done anything wrong and thinks I’ve turned our 16 year old son against him. He is a 100% narcissist his latest is telling people I have spent all of his redundancy which is a complete lie. He will do anything to make himself look better.