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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

What is the behaviour called? Subtle undermining? It's not negging but similar.

101 replies

pastypirate · 27/12/2021 22:47

Trying to process dp behaviour. Relationship on its last legs.

Making a point of not commenting directly on my hair when I got it done. The dc pushed him and he said something purposely neutral. I was quite hurt as I was really pleased. I went back to blonde and imo my hairdresser did an amazing job. On its own not a big deal just trying to lay out some examples of a broader picture.

Making digs at things the dc and I like. This was constant in the last few months. An example is tv shows the dc and I have been enjoying together - dp was so mean about them we started just watching them when he wasn't there so it took ages with things like strictly. Another time I asked dp if he minded what we watched he said no. So I put on a diy show and he made digs until I switched it off and got a bit upset. This is always met with 'can't have an opinion???'

There was an event that one of the dc had been looking forward to for over 6 months. We went (just dc and me) and loved it. Dp asked me about it and I described a small part of it. He immediately critiqued it. I was again upset.

Another one I've thought of it's days out. Dp will agree to come when it's our choice but be subtly difficult and not really join in. When it's his choice it's a different story. To be fair the dc have had a good time on his choice days out.

He makes subtle digs about the music the dc and I like abs will try and undermine that but we ignore him but I know it's there.

More and more subtle and overt undermining all the bloody time. To the point where I'm actually a bit scared of him knowing about what I'm reading for example. He gets very frothy about feminist literature - no surprise there is there!! If I bring up and activism I've read about it's shot down immediately.

I find/found it very hard to challenge this as I'm v scared of there being an atmosphere in the house with the kids.

I'm ending this relationship but I need to understand this behaviour for my own sanity!

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 28/12/2021 00:14

Some men do this in order to undermine our self esteem and make us feel that we need to hold on to them because no one else would want us. Had an ex who did this. It wasn't to make him feel superior to me, it was to make me feel undesirable to other men and 'lucky' to have him.

You're well rid of him.

Holothane · 28/12/2021 00:18

You carry on OP I’m leaving this year.

Original poster
pastypirate · 28/12/2021 00:23

@AcrossthePond55

Some men do this in order to undermine our self esteem and make us feel that we need to hold on to them because no one else would want us. Had an ex who did this. It wasn't to make him feel superior to me, it was to make me feel undesirable to other men and 'lucky' to have him.

You're well rid of him.

Interesting you should say that. I suggested recently I start going to the gym. He was quite panicky about this and the mask slipped quite a bit. He managed to say everything but 'don't/you can't/I don't want you to'. I knew he would react badly and that tipped me over the edge really.
OP posts:
Original poster
pastypirate · 28/12/2021 00:23

@Holothane

You carry on OP I’m leaving this year.
Keep posting and talking - mn have saved my sanity many a time!
OP posts:
ESGdance · 28/12/2021 00:24

Dp 100% thinks I'm ending it for no reason. I have been clear I'm very unhappy and he is acting astonished. Yeh I just sit in fucking silence for fun.

Deluded, arrogant, smug, entitled, bitter and grandiose - covert Narc traits. He is internally very inadequate but needs to push you down to keep afloat. He wants to silence you and punish you. He is treating you with utter contempt - but in a sly bullying way so that when you call him out on each individual act YOU sound irrational and unhinged. But pay attention to how you feel - because it’s the totality and consolidated impact of all of his deliberate hurts.

Ijsbear · 28/12/2021 00:26

Does he secretly want out of the relationship and is manoevering you to be the bad guy?

If that's the case, then be the bad guy. The world is a different place when you're on your own and not being pulled down all the time.

DaisyNGO · 28/12/2021 00:29

Ring him in the morning, tell him it's over, fix time to collect/drop off stuff.

Original poster
pastypirate · 28/12/2021 00:32

@Ijsbear

Does he secretly want out of the relationship and is manoevering you to be the bad guy?

If that's the case, then be the bad guy. The world is a different place when you're on your own and not being pulled down all the time.

No he very much wants the relationship and truly believes it can be saved by talking. It fucking can't. I'm done. And furious.
OP posts:
Ijsbear · 28/12/2021 00:32

oops sorry, saw only the first page.

god, I hope you get free soon.

Ijsbear · 28/12/2021 00:33

Once he's out of your life, give yourself a bit of time and then see how much better life is!

good luck :)

Original poster
pastypirate · 28/12/2021 00:37

I just want to post something he did that was really gaslighty. The dc were helped by exh to get me a piece of crockery that was quite meaningful recently. It had a metal handle which is very noticeable and was commented in by everyone when I opened the gift.
Dp put it in the microwave. He swore blind he forgot/didn't know/made a mistake. Of course he did that on purpose.

OP posts:
Original poster
pastypirate · 28/12/2021 00:38

@Ijsbear

Once he's out of your life, give yourself a bit of time and then see how much better life is!

good luck :)

Thanks i 100% know life will be better. Oh the early years we had some amazing times but he's fucked it now. His mask fell off
OP posts:
TomBradysLeftKneecap · 28/12/2021 00:39

Why does everything have to have a name on MN? Can it not just be two people struggling, after the two most miserable years in modern history, being dicks to each other?! If it's not for you, let him go!

MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 28/12/2021 00:40

It’s called contempt OP and as soon as it’s there the relationship is done.

eagerlywaitingfor · 28/12/2021 00:40

DP 100% thinks I'm ending it for no reason
Well, he would say that, wouldn't he? If he acknowledged that there was good reason for you to end the relationship, he'd have to admit to himself that it is his behaviour that is causing the split. And he can't have that, can he?

Get rid. He's a dementor, who takes every opportunity to put you down in order to boost his own ego. Dump him.

PyongyangKipperbang · 28/12/2021 01:02

He wants you back because if someone's going to be dumped, it shouldn't be him.

This happened with a friend of mine. Left his wife due to her abusive behaviour and drinking. She was OUTRAGED. As far as she was concerned there was no reason for him to leave, he must be having an affair (he wasnt) then she decided he was having an MH crisis (he wasnt) and told anyone who knew them that he had left to get his head together and that she would be moving to his new house for their new start. All was well and they were still together. Except they werent and 3 years later still arent. She was determined that he would be coming back.

It wasnt that she loved him it was that she had always believed that if anyone got dumped it would be him by her and not her by him. As soon as another man showed interest in her she was engaged within a couple of months and couldnt give less of a shit about my friend. She had this idea that she was a catch and he should be so grateful that she was in a relationship with him, him finishing with her proved that not to be the case. If he had gone back I have no doubt that she would have finished with him within a few months just to prove the point. I wonder if he would do that with you OP.

Lightstoobright · 28/12/2021 01:21

Contempt is a good word. And cynicism.
I was going out with a very cynical man and I felt like I couldn't really express my views and passions because he would sneer or laugh about them. Like a PP said, I stopped listening to the music I liked because he looked down on my music taste and I would hide the books I was reading because I knew he would make some comment or roll his eyes or say 'why are you interested in that?' in a suspicious way. I invited him to a friend's wedding once and he spent the whole event rolling his eyes and saying demeaning things about my friends. It's a subtle form of emotional abuse.

Pinkbonbon · 28/12/2021 01:47

Definatly a narcissist.

I have a family member like that. The miserable bastard variety of covert narcisim.

AmorFati · 28/12/2021 06:25

My ex-husband was like this OP, and he really messed me up. For example, I still can't listen to music I love 'out loud', even when I'm alone I have to wear headphones.
You can have the word I came up with for men like this - he's a Ruiner.

HomeTheatreSystem · 28/12/2021 06:52

You are very fortunate you don't cohabit or are married to this sad excuse for a human being! He sounds like a dementor. Please don't turn yourself inside out trying to provide a rational explanation to him for why you're dumping him as he will simply disagree and challenge you to come up with something more. Just tell him he no longer makes you happy, you enjoy life much more without him there and that's all there is to it. He doesn't have to like your decision or agree with it but that's what you want and that's how it's going to be. He is jealous and what I would call a "small man". He feels diminished by you for some reason and has to nitpick at your choices in small ways to make himself feel better. It's death by a thousand tiny cuts: I think you'll feel like a huge weight has been lifted off your shoulders once he's gone. Good luck Flowers

MirthlessChuckle · 28/12/2021 07:14

Ah yes we all know the type. There isn't exactly a word although I think people have tried (dementors, grinches, misery-guts etc etc).

They just suck the joy and happiness out of everything, and are only quiet when everything is exactly as they want, but even then not really happy or content. Their heads are miserable fucking places.

It doesn't really matter what you label it as, it's just important to recognise it and escape.

Well done on getting rid OP!

Mooster62 · 28/12/2021 07:30

If it is your house and he doesn't live with you and they are your DC, why are you still having a relationship with him. Just tell him it is over and block. Nothing more to think about....

PicsInRed · 28/12/2021 07:31

He's emotionally abusing you, as he's afraid you're more than good enough to leave him and be happy alone with the kids.

I think you should prove him right.

FlowersFlowers

sweetbellyhigh · 28/12/2021 07:51

Anyone who says "just saying" is being an arsehole, it's such a rude expression.

Tbh I doubt your partner has any insight into his behaviour, he's just a sad case who needs to put others down in order to feel ok about himself.

So he may genuinely believe that there's nothing wrong because he can't see or hear himself

However that is not your problem to solve. Focus on yourself and your children which by the way will be a lot easier once you've offloaded this lump of misery.

You owe him nothing.

marly2 · 28/12/2021 07:56

Can you just pack all his stuff up if he has things at yours and make this quick and final? If he thinks there is talking to do it might help to just have everything clearly 'finalised'. Maybe it would be helpful to do less thinking about him and finding examples of his behaviour and more about your own historical patterns of choice to enable you to move onwards to better things? I say this as someone who has made bad choices over years and am not yet clear about how to make better ones! Re your comment about your mum's advice - I wonder if some parents can give these men the benefit of the doubt because it's easier not to shake the status quo and they like to see us conventionally 'with someone' to be 'settled down'. I hope you manage to get rid quickly. You have clearly decided so better not to waste any more headspace on this person.