Can anyone make sense of this?

[turnthemintojelly]

It isn't exactly the detail, but it's how it pans out that I want advice on, it all seems so unhinged.

Last year I suffered a bereavement and as such have a lot of family stuff suddenly. A few months ago I mentioned to H about storing some of it in our shed and he gave a very angry and strong answer - no. He had a reason but it was not rational. The force of how he forbade me put me off asking about it again until yesterday, when I asked if I could, and explained I was asking because he'd been against it previously.

He seemed annoyed that I had mentioned his previous strong words against it. 'How could I say that' about him, and so on. He'd 'never act like that.' He was angry as if I was badmouthing him but it was just what happened. He then proceeded to spend the evening looking very frightening and saying I was crazy. He was absolutely furious, even though I was just daring to ask something reasonable. I didn't push it but did tell him to stop talking to me like that, and reiterated the simple truth of the situation. I felt upset to be honest. I'd been trying to sensitively fix something about my family belongings, feeling grief.

This morning he was fuming, saying I had ruined things by calling him names and by fuming I mean practically snarling and in a deep state of blocked off anger. It didn't change, and now he's out.

Does anyone have any - and I mean any - idea of what could have happened here? I asked something normal to do with a bereavement (which I was feeling a upset about it being nearly christmas) and because it included the fact that he's said no in a slightly mean way before he lost it for 24 hours, basically. He's been frightening, OTT. I should say we've been married for 15 years and have two kids. It's insane! He's acted like this before but I haven't made head nor tail of it. Do you know how to describe what's going on?

@turnthemintojelly

I feel very bad about it still, but reassured in a way that it doesn’t seem like anything I did could have made it better

Abusers rely on this. On the fact that their victim will feel bad within themselves for what's happening. It's the thing that stops the victim leaving. It's the mechanism by which the victim is controlled, and the kicker is that the victim is the one who provides it.

This is the bit of you that you need to sort out. The situation is that all the things that are wrong are being done by him. You are doing everything you can to try to make it better, and doing none of the 'wrong' things, regardless of what he tells you. And that's the key to solving the problem: you think what you think. You feel what you feel. He doesn't get a say in either of those. The 'But he says I'm harsh/controlling/whatever' concept vanishes.

Making this concept vanish can be helped along by thinking about the things he says you are, and thinking about how many other people have had problems with you being this way. Who else tells you you're controlling? Who else thinks you get everything wrong? Who else makes you feel about yourself the way that he makes you feel about yourself?

I'm guessing 'Nobody'. And that's it. You're giving him 100% power to judge your personality and traits, regardless of what you think and regardless of what everybody else tells you. Stop giving him this power. He's only giving you his opinion. And if he thinks you're so faulty, then, as an adult, the responsible thing for him to do would be to leave the relationship. The fact that he doesn't demonstrates his faults. He prefers to stay in a relationship with somebody who he thinks keeps on screwing up, and be mean to them about it. That's not healthy, and it's harmful to the partner.

What you are doing is similar (staying with somebody who keeps screwing up), but, again, the person who gets harmed is you. So you've got him against you, and you against you.

Start being on your own side. Start choosing things that make you feel better (like not being in the room with him, like refusing to feel guilty, like backing up your opinion of yourself that you're actually a really nice person who doesn't deserve this crap) Start listening to those parts of you that stamp their foot and say 'This isn't FAIR!! All I've done is be nice to you!!' That's the real you. I suspect that nobody has listened to her for years, including yourself. But she's the bit of you that does 'happy', so until you start respecting her, you'll never have full access to that.

Yes, I have 4 children. They were aged between 13-20 when I left 3 years ago.

I stayed for about 10 years longer than I should have done. The children and I all have varying levels of anxiety/ trauma to deal with, and big issues with relationships/ boundaries caused by the one-sided family dynamic they grew up in.

I’m living with the guilt of backing down and trying again when he emotionally (and a couple of times physically) abused all of us - including particularly my 2 daughters.

I’m picking up the pieces, helping my daughters understand where I went wrong (in not standing up for our rights and protecting us all) and how to do things differently in their lives.

You owe it to your children to take them out of this horrifically stressful life. Only you have the power to save them from the trauma and domestic abuse they’re living in.

Maybe if someone had kicked me up the arse I would have left much earlier.

Do not use the children as a reason to stay - they deserve a better life as much as you do.

Save them. Get the hell out.

Ps my ex used illness and ‘in sickness and in health’ excuses to try to make me stay. I nearly stayed, but I would not have survived. I signed up to love and honour him, but I did not sign up to be abused and belittled and gaslighted by him. Neither did you.

That’s extremely brave of you @Lcar

It took me a long, long time to leave.
And life is sooo much better without him, though I still have a long way to go to recover.

Honestly, you deserve better.

There’s a good life out there for you - find a counsellor to speak to, to help you find the strength to get out, and the realisation that what is happening to you is wrong.

I knew I had no confidence and had lost my self-esteem, and that I was frightened of him.

But it was a huge shock to me to realise that I was suffering domestic abuse. Denial and lack of understanding of the situation you’re in is totally normal.

Wonderful supportive people here reminded me that I’m a good person, and deserve a happy life, and that I owed it to my children to give them the best life I could.

They were right.

It was scary and mind-blowing. I have no other family and was very much on my own, and had no money when I left, but I’ve gradually rebuilt my confidence, rebuilt my life, and I’m in a much better job with more money - and (finally) a good credit rating.

My kids are thriving.

You’ll be fine. Grab what you need, and go and live a happy life.

You’ll feel shaky and you will miss him (bizarrely - I did), but you’ll have an exciting time remembering who you are, what you like, and how you want to live. Don’t look back.

I’ve been with my lovely boyfriend for 2 years, who is kind, loving, fair and thoughtful, and positively encourages me to spend time with friends, to laugh and smile, to challenge myself and thrive in my job, and to have confidence in myself and my ability. I had no idea a relationship could be like this.

My children are so much happier. Our home is calm, happy, and co-operative, and full of music and laughter.

You and your children can have the same.

We’ve got your back - go and live your life. Xx

That brought tears to my eyes @Lcar. It sounds so nice, and though very hard it sounds like your life is real (if that makes sense).

OP,

He sounds so awful.

Have you family and friends to support you?

Have you called Women's aid to talk through your options.

This is not a good man and this is not a good environment for your children.

Reach out for support.

Yes, I have opened up to a few close people. They see me struggling to think it through I think and so have not tried to tell me what to do. It feels very exposing even to tell close family. It’s been a secret for so many years.

Ugh. The gaslighting and history re-writing was something my exH did all throughout our short marriage. He was diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder and absolutely could not accept anything that painted him in a negative light, even if it wasn't negative, per se. He had manufactured this perfect image of himself and spent his entire life building and protecting it, so to suggest that he had raised his voice, shown anger or annoyance absolutely blew his mind. He would turn it around on me angrily asking, "How can you think that about me?" while denying that it ever happened.

It could be the smallest of issue and he would blow it completely out of proportion. When I told him once how his driving scared me (a week after it happened) and that I had gently asked him to slow down, he went into a rage. What he heard was me criticizing his driving and purposely trying to scare me. No matter how much I tried to explain myself and reassure him that that wasn't what I meant, he wasn't having any of it.

I'm so glad I got out when I did.

@dramalessllama that made me shiver, that’s exactly what he does and also I think his motivation. He keeps saying ‘how could you say this about me?’ and that I had ‘called him so many names’ and was ‘slagging him off’ when actually I was raising something that had hurt me. The experience of being on the other side of it is horrible.

to suggest that he had raised his voice, shown anger or annoyance absolutely blew his mind. He would turn it around on me angrily

The irony!

A life of having to walk on eggshells isn't living. Leaving my new husband of less than a year was the hardest thing I've ever done.

What helped me was intense therapy with a therapist well versed in personality disorders and controlling partners, a prescription to calm my brain because I couldn't think straight (my therapist said that I'd been on "high alert" for that entire year) and reading books like "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft, and then during the divorce - "Splitting - Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder." That Splitting book was crucial to navigate the court system and the importance of finding a lawyer experienced in high conflict situations.

turnthemintojelly Can you think of any examples of the attention being on you, not him, and him acting up? I'm thinking more of a birthday or a time you tried to celebrate an achievement, rather than bereavement. Is that a pattern with him?
If not, I think I'd wait until he is out then search the shed.

Oh yes, he cannot stand the attention to be on anyone but him. I've searched the shed, there's nothing.

He sounds like my ex OP. Sorry you are going through this, there is nonrhykenor reason. No matter how rational you are and how calm you stay, people like this will fly into a rage if you dare try and speak up for yourself.

It's all one mighty head fuck designed to keep you in your place.

No rhyme or reason*

He bullies you with fits of rage to keep you quiet.

How many years have you been walking on eggshells for?

Well to start with, he’s likely not really angry at all.
It’s an act he puts on to frighten you into toeing the line.
Assume it’s your shed too ?
Why do you even need “permission”?
It would be more normal for both of you to discuss what you put there rather than it be his personal territory.
It’s called abuse and control !

Did you have kids, @Lcar? If I didn’t I’d be gone today

Op kids are MORE reason to leave not less

You owe it to your children to take them out of this horrifically stressful life. Yep

Those close to you in real life will be treading the tight rope of wanting to tell you to get the hell out and not alienating you so they can't support you. It's incredibly difficult for them in that position.

I'd bet good money AS SOON as you said to them you're leaving they'd be like "about bloody time!"

But while you're still with him they're needing to be careful so as he can't isolate you and leave you without support

Nothing in the shed now but as I said earlier he'll have moved whatever it was, it may not even have been anything dodgy possibly a Christmas gift - that's not the point! The point is his reaction and how he constantly treats you - and the dc

No I’m certain it’s nothing to do with anything in the shed. This is arbitrary and happens all the time.

I'm not saying he's a diagnosable narcissist but he does seem to have some narc traits, it might be worth googling;

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/communication-success/201707/6-common-traits-narcissists-and-gaslighters

laughingatnarcs.com/traits-of-a-narcissist/

I'd also wonder if there was something in the shed at the time you first asked, and which he subsequently removed. But that's as that's where my exh turned out to have kept the gifts his OW gave him.
What are some other situations? He's trying to control you: what's he trying to stop you doing? Asking questions? Knowing where he's going?

He keeps saying ‘how could you say this about me?
His only defence is attack. He knows he's in the wrong, doesn't want to be the baddy and is making you the baddy instead, by making out that you are being horrible to him. He's got something on his conscience and doesn't like it.

Thanks, yes. It does match the description. Does that add anything to it though do you think? I suppose it might mean he’s very unlikely to change

My dad is very similar to this. He has certain triggers (e.g. mentioning money in any context) that send him into a terrifying rage. I've often thought he has a paranoid personality disorder. But the hardest thing is the unpredictability of it, feeling like you are constantly walking on eggshells, never knowing what tiny little thing will set him off. My siblings and I love him dearly but we are always slightly on edge when we visit my parents. It has slowly ground my mum down over the years, constantly having to appease his outbursts and poor behaviour. She is always apologising to him because his precious feelings are hurt if she stands up to him, when HE should be apologising. I have never heard him say sorry. She is always hopeful he will change (40 years of marriage) but he has slowly gotten worse over time. I am confident he will never change because he has no insight into his behaviour and how it affects those around him. My mum has accepted he is this way and she is aware that she has lost her own sparkle, which makes me sad. Interestingly, he was great at his job, very charming and never raised his voice etc at work. However, he is like this with extended family and many relatives won't speak to him as a result.

I don’t understand why you need to ASK to put things in your nearly empty shed ????

Please stop trying to understand him and all the people suggesting dementia etc are bing helpful but missing the point entirely

If he is frightening you snd you can speak to him then you need to re-evaluate the relationship

He has narcissistic rage because you dared to criticise his behaviour. And he is kicking you while you're down (grieving).