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Original poster

Can a narcissist really change?

52 replies

kilk5 · 22/11/2021 22:40

I left my H a while ago for many reasons. One being I realised after 6 years that he was a narcissist. He had also coercive controlled me.

Comes from a terrible childhood which I urged him to get help for which was always a flat NO.

Despite him treating me terribly, I still care for him a great deal although I never imagined myself going back to him.

Over the weekend, he sent me a long message and told me he had accepted he needed help to change and to deal with trauma from the past. He asked me to find him a good therapist. And I have. And he is booked in for weekly sessions. Over the weekend I saw him cry...and I mean really cry.

He hasn't asked me to return home but he has said he is willing to do whatever it takes to make our marriage work.

I am remaining strong, not giving anything away.

So my question is, with therapy, could he really change? Anyone experienced this?

I am still almost certain our marriage is over but I can't help thinking how it could of been if he were different. Though ultimately the damage is done and it would take such a lot for me to go back, I don't think I would ever feel comfortable.

I also feel it will be a long road for him, I would happily support him in his journey but from a distance.

Im just interested in other peoples experiences or thoughts?

I never imagined to ever get to the stage where he would do therapy. The therapist I found for him sounded absolutely great but said H must make the first move and gave me the email address or phone number.

I didn't expect H would do either, maybe email....but he rang and made the call, spoke to the therapist and had booked three weekly appointments.

This is something I've been trying to get him to do for 6 years. It's just a shame our marriage had to end to get to this point.

I'm very aware he may just be doing this to get me back but I'm trying to see the positive in that he may change.

Opinions welcome

OP posts:
DerbyshireMama · 22/11/2021 22:57

No, I don't believe they can. What you saw was a performance put on because it benefitted him at the time. And it seems to have worked.

Salayes · 22/11/2021 22:57

An person with actual narcissistic personality disorder? No, I don’t believe the thinking is they can. But those people are actually few and far between.

Someone toxic and abusive due to unresolved trauma? I believe yes it is possible and i’ve seen a couple of people make decent changes. But generally it takes a lot of work and willing and isn’t a quick fix at all. You’d be looking at years of deep work to improve this sort of thing and really get to grips with it all.

If he’s asking you, his ex, to search out and book him therapy that’s already a massive red flag. That’s because he would already be coopting you into his ‘healing’, before he’s even begun it. And that is NOT taking proper responsibility for himself and committing to start the changes he says he wants to make.

If he’s really serious he’d search out therapy for himself and also actively make improvements - with or without you. If you really want to know if he will change then do not make any noises that you may consider a reconciliation with him and see if he still goes ahead with it all.

Original poster
kilk5 · 22/11/2021 23:02

Thanks - I'm fully aware it's all just to get me back. Its the very last thing he can try. Im very much a realistic person and whilst the idea of him transforming into this amazing person is great, I know the chances are next to zero.

I've come a long way since I left him and I don't plan on wrecking my life even further.

That being said, I genuinely do want the best for him so I hope he goes through with it for him. But deep down I know it's for 'us' and to get me back.

OP posts:
RaisedByPangolins · 22/11/2021 23:06

Why did he get you to find him a therapist? Are you in that industry? Or was it because he wanted you to know that he’s going to therapy? If he’s doing it as a performance then it’s never going to work. If he was just getting on with it quietly it might come across more genuinely.

stealingbeauty · 22/11/2021 23:10

No. I recommend watching MentalHealness on YouTube. He’s a diagnosed narcissist who’s in therapy and his videos are very helpful.

I had to cut someone who is strongly narcissistic out of my life. It took me a couple of years to accept she’d never change. An abuser is an abuser and she enjoyed treating me terribly. I’m quite sure it made her feel powerful.

KIYW · 22/11/2021 23:10

If you say to him

“It’s great that you are doing this for you but it’s too late for us now and it’s not going to change the way I feel”

See how long he carries it on for…..

Doyoumind · 22/11/2021 23:17

No he won't change. Don't make that mistake. If he goes to therapy he'll turn it round and won't take any blame. He'll paint himself purely as the victim and won't address his issues. The tears suited him. If I sound heartless it's because I'm numb to it all following years of narcissistic manipulation.

Aquamarine1029 · 22/11/2021 23:19

He will never change, and if you don't have children, I strongly advise you to cut him completely out of your life. You can't help him, it's not your job to support him, and he will only continue to find ways to abuse you.

supremelybaffled · 22/11/2021 23:53

I was in a relationship with one, a long time ago. I met him again about five years after we'd split up, and he'd had a lot of counselling. He'd also, surprisingly, since he had been strongly atheist, done the Alpha course and become a Christian.

A quarter of a century later, and we are in very occasional contact. Do I think he's changed? Mostly yes. I think he's learned to control his anger, his moods, his egocentricity and his aggression. At least from what I see of him, and his relationship with his now wife and two dc. Do I think he's completely changed and is no longer a narcissist? No, not really.

PicsInRed · 23/11/2021 00:02

He asked me to find him a good therapist

He's still playing you.

He coerced you to find him a therapist.

Step away from the narcissist, OP. Step away from the narcissist.

ESGdance · 23/11/2021 00:16

@PicsInRed

He asked me to find him a good therapist

He's still playing you.

He coerced you to find him a therapist.

Step away from the narcissist, OP. Step away from the narcissist.

This.

V dangerous. Slippery slope.

He has now changed tack I suspect with the crocodile tears.

It will all be self serving.

Block.

Delete.

And invest in therapy for yourself because you have a blind spot….a vulnerability that he will exploit. He is back in your head with the self doubt. Do not expose yourself to his manipulation.

ArdeaCinerea · 23/11/2021 00:30

If he was serious about improving himself, he wouldn't still make you work for him and he wouldn't dump responsibility for starting his treatment on you. He would've found a therapist on his own and would've started working on himself already without you even knowing. But he isn't doing that is he?

I would add from my experience that therapy for a narcissist won't necessarily result in any improvement. The narc I was involved with was very keen on therapy, but the therapist was often just another supply for him to manipulate and lie to. He once told me triumphantly about how he convinced an attractive blonde therapist lady to hold his hand during a session.

ohwhattodowithmylife · 23/11/2021 00:39

Nope,
Been there with my ex. Didn't change- he was able to convince me for a few months then his behaviour went back.
Please don't go there

CheekyHobson · 23/11/2021 03:26

It's not impossible but it is unlikely and takes a very long time and a lot of hard, self-motivated work on his part, so I would actively move forward with your life as a single person (including looking for a new relationship if you want one) while he works on himself.

Narcissists can usually keep up quite a good performance for a year or so, so two years would probably be the minimum amount of time to allow to go by if you want to see if the remorse and changes have really stuck.

If you've been in a relationship with a narcissist before, you will be at high risk of falling for another one, so even if you meet someone interesting tomorrow, you should spend at least two years dating that person without serious commitment and assessing how good they are for you before you consider a serious, life-long commitment to them.

If your husband does really get better and continues to want a relationship with you in two years, then you will be able to weigh up your options between him and any potential new partner then. But do not limit your own options in the meantime.

CatonMat · 23/11/2021 03:31

I think it's telling that he asked you to find him a therapist.
Have his fingers stopped working so he can't Google stuff himself?

DebbieHarrysCheekbones · 23/11/2021 04:40

No I don’t believe they can change. Not a true narcissist. For many many reasons .

He is a predator and emotional vampire
Stop this now unless you actually want him to headfuck you all over again and break you.

This is all just a vehicle to exert control and domination. Including the crying.

Twiglets1 · 23/11/2021 05:30

My daughter was in a relationship with a narcissist and he agreed to go to counselling only at the point she was about to leave him. As with you, he asked her to find a counsellor for him. He was utterly charming to his female counsellor to the point where he proudly relayed that she had said that she couldn’t believe that he was someone who would have anger issues unless seriously provoked - in other words it wasn’t his fault. Thus he stopped the counselling after about 3 sessions ( complaining bitterly about the cost). How honest was he to his counsellor? Obviously not very - he just saw her as another person to charm and lie to in order to win her approval. He was right in one sense - it was a waste of money.

But if you want to be a friend to your ex, you could stick around for a few months ( only as a friend) to see if he is really getting anything from the counselling and gaining some personal insight through being honest with them. Please don’t fantasise about a new relationship with him though - the odds are highly stacked against him genuinely changing.

TheFoundations · 23/11/2021 06:40

It's a recognised abuse tactic. It's called hoovering. It's a revolting clear lesson in how easily they can pick up the mask when they need to.

If somebody has abused you, it doesn't matter if they have changed. Their ability to change like that means that they could easily change back, and, as you know they are comfortable abusing you, you would never be able to trust them not to.

www.medicinenet.com/what_does_being_hoovered_mean/article.htm

litterbird · 23/11/2021 06:48

No, and he already has you doing his bidding for him. You need to ask yourself why you said yes to getting him his therapist. You are now part of his plan to hoover you with all his stories of his journey through therapy just to keep you there and willing, which you are. They do not get better they just learn to hide it better. I would block and move on.

Endpress · 23/11/2021 06:58

Maybe. It will take years though.

Buildingthefuture · 23/11/2021 07:12

Yes, I believe, in general, people can change and they do all the time. Obviously don’t know your DH or your situation though. Is he actually diagnosed as a narcissist (much harder to change than someone who has narcissistic tendencies) You say he treated you terribly but don’t say how so it’s hard to judge his potential for change.
Agree with PP though..his asking you to find the therapist is a red flag…I would be wary here OP. Seeing a therapist is VERY different from actually engaging with a therapist and taking the advice on board. I would watch from a firmly boundaried distance. If this is just “hoovering” he won’t keep it up for long…..

MahMahMahMahCorona · 23/11/2021 07:37

@PicsInRed

He asked me to find him a good therapist

He's still playing you.

He coerced you to find him a therapist.

Step away from the narcissist, OP. Step away from the narcissist.

3 sessions won't cure him! The crocodile tears and wobbly bottom lip are all a show.

Please don't engage. Trauma bond (yours) is a real thing, as is co dependency. Stepping away is so hard and yet you absolutely need to do it to maintain your own MH.

Struggling1702 · 23/11/2021 08:16

I now realise that my exH has narcissistic traits. I left him after his third affair (that I know of) but he begged me to give him a chance to change. After first two affairs we had couples counseling and he had one session on his own. Apparently the therapist said there was nothing wrong with him and issues were mine... So yeah, I took him back.
This time round we went to individual counseling. He did two sessions and told me that the therapist said he had problems because of his mum and his childhood (plausible), that his cheating wasn't his fault (not plausible) and that he would always find it hard not to cheat as he's so good looking (I mean he's alright looking but certainly no Brad Pitt!). Anyway I kicked him out.. he begged again for me to give him a year before I filed... He was to have therapy and work on himself and prove himself. 2 months later I find he's on all the dating sites 😔. I file for divorce and tell him why... Again, he tells me his therapist (who he never saw again btw) told him he had to date lots to learn to control himself and learn to resist temptation.
So, the lesson here is, no, no I don't believe they change. He literally lost everything and yet he still lied and put himself first. I genuinely thought me ending things and him realising what he'd lost would make him change. But no 😔

2catsandhappy · 23/11/2021 10:14

The only thing that has changed is his method of control.
He is attacking you from a different angle.
Please do not allow him any more headspace.

layladomino · 23/11/2021 10:44

The very fact he got you to sort out the therapist means either a) he is used to controlling you to be at bis beck and call, and feels you are somehow responsible for his wellbeing (you are not) or b) he wants you to know he is seeking therapy - ie it is a show put on to show you he is doing all he can.

Why couldn't he sort out the therapy himself?

I'm sorry but he is very unlikely to change. This is just him controlling you again. Or trying to. See through him and accept that he is who he is. If he is serious about getting you back (for the right reasons, ie he loves you and wants a mutually respectful and supportive relationship) then he can seek you out when he's gone through lots of therapy and is ready to have a grown up, healthy relationship. It isn't your job to support him through that process.