"But we took you to stately homes"... a thread for adult children of abusive families

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This thread is a follow up to "My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry" because we reached the end of the thread life.

I originally posted on that thread to say that my mother had blamed me for something that was in fact her fault, called me a liar, got the rest of the family to gang up on me and then blamed me for splitting up the family.

It generated a huge amount of interest from a number of women who, like me, had grown up in an abusive, or "toxic" family environment where we had been the scapegoat or the dustbin for our parents to dump their own unresolved difficulties. My mother, like all our mothers, has refused to apologise for what she has done and many of us have cut ties with our families in order to recover our lost selves and self-esteem.

hugs sakura

The aiming is 'not to care'

I often revert to child email owing to this crap...my dd's don't even fall for this...

I have sent an email, he canot ignore this...

what else? I am sat here with my dd;s and having a great movie night, snuggled up and dd asleep...

Please sakura and anyone else..merry xmas x x x muchly lovely xx

May I join in?? I have been fuming about my mother since yesterday night! (ok since most of my life but last night she went out of her way!)

I supose Christmas make things even worse... I feel like cutting them out of my life but at the same time I think I am not sending the dreaded letter because I know they will blame me on that and that would bring even more pain.

ping...

You are very welcome.

purpleone-Am having a bit of a wobble myself at the moment so I held back to write anything hoping someone would come along and say things much better than I can at the moment.
Think sakura said it all. I said a short while ago in a post that I felt sakura sounded healthy and although she refuses to accept this I think the example she gave is a good example of what being healthy is. It's putting yourself (and with yourself, your family) first and not caring about the consequences or the impact on 'them' (them being mum or dad or in many cases both). We spent most of our formative years being trained to care about what impact any of out actions would have on them, and so put them first for fear of what that impact would bring.

MemysonandI- hello to you! Tell us what your mum had gone and done- would love to know more.

TMSB- -I dont know what we are having. Decided to keep it as a surprise
Just wanted to say I hope you didnt think I was implying you were APD I was just linking my family history in with my own experience of social awkwardness. This is what I now trace it back to. I spent my birth-4 years mainly in my nans care. I never felt comfortable being so painfully shy and awkward, and pushed myself into social situations because I deep down craved that. I think Id adopted this phobia from my mum and nan IYSWIM, rather than it be an inherant part of me.

MysonandI

50% of the relationship is their responsibility.
50% is your responsibility.

Yes they can blame you. But they are then denying they have any responsibility in your relationship.

So long as you know the above and keep it in mind...well it helps a bit for me!

And you are more than welcome.

Please vent childhood details too or summary if you wish...

And if its a long post...I'm the queen of those...doubt you'll beat me but you can try! Mean that in friendly way btw...!! lots of people apologise for the long post...but its often needed to get it all out of your head...!

Notalone, sorry, have kept meaning to come on line and answer the question you asked on Wednesday, but haven?t had the time until now. Yes, I was. I still find it very hard to admit and I couldn?t say or write it until a few months ago. Now I can, so that must be progress. I think I?ve put in a previous post roughly what happened to me, though there are still shady memories (accompanied by very strong feelings of fear, shame and distress) that I?m piecing together. I didn?t suffer nearly as much as many did. I?ve spent my adult life trying to ignore/forget/dismiss it but now I?m ?out? of my birth family my brain is letting everything out and I?m starting to make connections between what happened (both with what my father did to me and how my mother has always treated me) and much of my negative behaviour throughout adulthood, low self-esteem, depression, self-hatred etc. It?s exhausting and often traumatic but worth it I think. And this thread is helping me to make so many of those "connections", it's just invaluable. I know I should really have therapy. I tried a few months ago but the therapist wasn?t for me. I?ll try again in the new year (once the chiropractor has fixed my back and I have money to spare again!).

Oneplusone, have you had a chance to start reading Divorcing a parent yet? Hope it is good and proving useful. I've just finished a novel (bit of light relief) but must go back to my Beverley Engel book I think.

Hi Ally -

Sakura, I think what you?ve done over the Christmas box is absolutely right. You've emailed to say thank you, so you shouldn't feel you have to answer any of the phone calls. Remember it's about what you want to do, your standards, your boundaries, how you want to live your life, and they have to accept and live with how you choose to behave. You're behaving with integrity and you're living your life your way. Exactly how it should be .

I got past the hurdle of seeing my brother and sil and new baby yesterday. Handed over presents, and received some from them and, to no surprise at all from me, one for ds from my parents. It was a bit uncomfortable at times, and my brother is moving further into "mother can do no wrong" mode, but for 2008 I've decided that all I can do is be there for my brother and sister if they need me, but other than that I'm giving up on hopes of a normal relationship, not actively seeking out their company, and working on not caring what they think of me and my "betrayal".

And did I mention my parents sent me and DH a book token through the post? DH's response on opening the envelope was "well, that'll be useful if we need any more self-help books" .

Happy Christmas and New Year to everyone xxxx

This is what I posted in my other thread:

"Recently separated from H and my mother's support has been extremely negative...

-... if you tried harder he won't leave you (he didn't leave me, we both decided -at the same time- that we were past "repair")

Many friends have been there for me, and today she told me, yet another time, that friends won't be there for me in the future. And that I shouldn't trust them, she even went as far as to insist in me not dicussing this topic with my best friend who has been a real friend to me since almost 15 years ago). When I said that this friend was so near to me she was "family" to me, she went ballistic, I said that she and her husband had planned to spend Christmas with us (they, as my mother, live at the other side of the Atlantic) and she became so painfully sarcastic, she ended up the discussion by sayings "Oh that would make you a complete person for the rest of your life??? wouldn't it?

I really don't know why she enjoys putting me down like this, what is her problem with friends showing some support to me? why has she always felt so destructively jealous of persons who are there for me? She doesn't even has a point, whereas friends continue to be suportive year after year, my family has been rather lacking in that department.

She is planning to visit us next Easter and some way I think I would rather not. I'm coping so well on my own, trying hard to keep my thoughts positive at my new "singledom" but someway I know het attitude of talking to me as if I were an idiot is not going to help me at all.

Some other pearls of wisdom are:
-marriage is for intelligent women only.
-do not ever discuss money issues with soon to be Ex. (as if??? isn't that my money too???)
-Your marriage was obviously a failure but maybe in the future you will be OK (I don't consider it a failure for a minute, yeah things didn;t worked out at the end, but when it was good, it was so damn good!)
-Obviously you have ruined your life and will be on your own until the end, or maybe just maybe you will get a second chance.

Argh..... should I tell her not to come? honestly, she is my mother but what on Earth??"

It has been quite good to talk about this, but I still need some ideas about how to ask her not to come, without making feel bad about it. She may be very mean but she is also old and I don't want to break her heart.

memysonandi- Think you have answered your own question regarding wether she should visit you! That often happens when putting things down in black and white. You feel she is a negative and a destructive influence. At this time in your life that is the last thing you need.

I'm coping so well on my own, trying hard to keep my thoughts positive at my new "singledom" but someway I know het attitude of talking to me as if I were an idiot is not going to help me at all.<

As to why your mother acts like this? There is something in her which makes her so insecure and threatened by your independence that her reflex is to attack you and bring you back in to line. I have to say your story is so reminsiscent of my own mother! She travelled overseas to see me at a vulnerable time in my life and left me a gibbering wreck. I couldnt simply ask her to leave cos leaving involved a longhaul flight, and she ended up extending her trip by another 3 weeks!

Now for the tricky part. You probably (like myself and many of us) have been 'trained' to wear the guilt especially when trying to draw some boundaries. I have to admit standing up to them is probably not my forte (always cave in) YET (working on it). So its probably best that I leave it to someone who has had more practice and will give you better advice than I can.

Just wanted to acknowledge your post really and say your feelings are very valid despite the fact I know you are probably wearing the guilt right now for having these feelings at all.

(they, as my mother, live at the other side of the Atlantic)BTW have to ask if it was 'you' who relocated overseas?

I really need a bit of support guys. Im on to my 3rd text now from mum.
She is currently on holiday; first said 'hope all is well' I didnt respond. second 'how are things with you' no response. This one now reads;

This is mumn this no 4, please hun send me some news on how u all r. Miss u loads. Hope all is well n u lookin after urself. Love u big kiss to (smithfields DS). There is then some missing text.

She has sent this on someone elses mobile.
She never, ever rights such gush. In recent times her texts have become interspersed with 'hun'. It makes me sick actually because she could never ever bring herself to say I love you, or call me hun when I was little.
In fact the only sense of feeling I ever got from her was frostbite. Along with feelings of hurt, confusion and anger at every put down.
I feel like she sends this kind of thing when she is with her 'cronies' as she likes to have a front of being highly loving, highly supportive mother. WHICH SHE IS NOT! In fact she is so loving and supportive that despite having been asked up here for xmas a year ago, she booked herself a trip instead and never even discussed it with me or actually told me herself she was going (found out through db).
It seems she can ask to send a hug for ds via text, yet has never ever hugged him in person? Poor ds always looks a tad bewildered as she flies past him plonks herself on sofa and barely interacts with him! (sorry guess there's still plenty of anger in there after all .

In person she continues to attempt to humiliate me and put me down. Calling me fatty (whilst pg) and shorty. and then saying 'oh come on Im joking'.

SO why oh why do I now have the FOG nonetheless.???

I have to point out that at this point in time she has no idea how I feel, there has been no definitive cutting off. I think this kind of communication is going to heighten from now on and when she returns(and is alone) will probably take a more aggressive tone.
Not sure how I will handle that either when so close to giving birth.

So I guess my question is what do I do? To I respond to head her off at the pass so to speak or just not, knowing the consequences of that only too well?

Hi memysonandi. I agree with Smithfield that your mother sounds deeply insecure and very threatened by your independence and by your obviously strong and positive relationships with your friends. As it's always been your friends rather than your family who have given you support it doesn't sound like your mother will change and it also sounds like the last thing you need at the moment is a visit from her at Easter. As far as ideas for how to tell her not to come go, you must put yourself first and if you don't want her to come you should tell her, hard though it may be. Don't let (misplaced, given how badly she's treated you) guilt make you agree to anything that is not in your best interests. It sounds like whatever you do she will lay a guilt trip of some sort on you and I guess if she comes to visit she gets to do it in person rather than you being able to keep her at arms' length. How about suggesting delaying the visit to later in the year, if you feel comfortable doing that? That would give you more time to deal with what I guess, however amicable your split it, may be a difficult time in your life? Sorry, this isn't sounding very useful. My mother is 30 minutes' drive away and has asked to see me and ds on several occasions. I've just emailed back to say I don't have time and will contact her when I do. I'm waiting until I'm strong enough to see her without the precious self-esteem I'm rebuilding crumbling. Who knows how long that will take, but I've mostly managed to lose the guilt and the feeling of responsibility for keeping her happy the whole time, and no longer care about how she feels about this. She's caused me so much suffering over the years, this is my time for me.

Hi Smithfield, sorry she's stalking you like this. It's so hard to know what you should do. Would a simple "We're fine but too busy to text. from Smithfield" text get her off your back? Keeps it short and simple, doesn't give her any information about how you're feeling or what you're up to that she can then use as an excuse for further contact. I've found starving my mother of any information at all coming directly from me about what me and ds and dh are up to has removed most of her reasons for contacting me (so now my sister feeds her information and she uses that as an excuse to contact me so I'm going to have to stop telling my sister anything). But I have cut off from her, albeit not permanently yet, so my situation is a bit different to yours.

She sounds totally demented and like someone you don't need to be around at the best of times, let alone in the late stages of pregnancy. Is there any merit in telling her you need a break from her for a while? Would this work? Sorry if I'm missing stuff about your situation and my advice is thus irrelevant. I found your first post on the previous thread so am writing based on that.

Thank you for replying to my post. I accept that 50% of the responsability is them and the other 50% mine.

I blame myself on setting un realistic expectations on what a family or a mother should be. Now I have my own child I have become a bit more defensive at her negativeness maybe because I can now say: this is not normal, I wouldn't do that to my child!

At the end of the day, she has good intentions and has had a more abusive relationship with her mother than with me (She was sent for holidays to my grandfather's family and her mother never collected her, so she was raised by 3 very harsh spinsters). So no wonder she can't express love or act normal as other mums would do. She didn't have an example to follow.

However, as much as I understand where she is comming from, and I have the slight suspiction that she is embarrassed of my new "situation" so she doesn't want anyone to know its details(if she only knew I am posting this in a site that has more than 10000 hits a day! ). She really think divorce is a disgrace and I have disgraced myself and my son by separating from exH. Anyways, I think that regardless of her behaviour, which has been abismal at some points in my life, she loves me, even a little bit, and thinks she is doing the right thing for me. I just wish she was not so stubborn at putting her points forward by cruelly smashing mine. And to finally accept I'm a grown up woman rather than a 2 year old to be bossed over as if she couldn't be trusted to take her own decissions.

I am very convinced that she is also jealous of me not having a strong relationship to her as I have with some of my friends. But then, how could you be friends with someone that doesn't accept you have a brain of your own, or is so humilliating towards you? Problem is, I can't talk about this reasonably with her because she starts to cry and tells me she will go and hide in her shoebox, even when she may have said an incredibly hurtful thing a couple of seconds before.

But gosh, can she be mean? yes, but it is always my fault apparently.

Like so many others I was drawn in by the thread title. I wish I'd 'known' you all 20+ years ago.

I too have a mother who conveniently forgets everything that ever happened to us as children. I was always the black sheep of the family so usually got the worst of it.

I'll try to keep this short but my mother's dp moved in when I was 6yrs old. I didn't like him at all but my mother thought the sun shone out of his backside. It didn't take too long for him to show his true colours though. He resented us for being there and did his best to make our lives a misery. The only time we were allowed out of our bedrooms was if we went outside or if we were doing housework or waiting on the dp. If he wanted a window closed when he was watching television he would call one of us downstairs to close it for him and then send us back upstairs. We had huge amounts of housework to do and would be shouted at, hit, or punched if it wasn't done to his satisfaction. Nothing we ever did was good enough. Once or twice a year my mother would stand up to him but nothing ever changed. He used to threaten to have us put in a childrens home and each time I prayed that he would follow through with this threat.

I didn't tell anyone about it but I think the parents of some of my friends suspected that something wasn't right. A couple of the mothers kind of took me under their wing. I've never forgotten their kindness.

I moved away when I was old enough and later married and had my first child. I hated the idea of my baby being anywhere near my mother's dp. Fortunately it didn't have to happen. Things came to a head when my ds was a few months old. I caught my mother saying horrible things about dh and it was the final straw. I confronted her and she cut me out of her life. It was an incredible relief. The stress and the pressure just lifted and I felt as though a huge weight had been taken off my shoulders.

A couple of years passed by and we had another child. This was when my mother seemed to realise just what she had been missing out on with our ds. She asked if she could see the new baby. It has been a slow process but things are gradually improving. We're not close by any means. Whereas dh will often call his mum "just for a chat and to see how she is" it doesn't occur to me to do the same.

Until about a year ago (around 2 years after she got in touch again) I was still excluded from all family stuff. I've heard that the dp would say something like "If Neddy goes then I'm not going." Then something changed and she stopped giving in to him. So now I get the invitations while he stays at home.

I'm still the only one of my siblings who doesn't get invited round for Christmas but that suits me just fine. The post on here about people having certain roles that they are expected to fall into at Christmas is so true and it's something that I don't want to go back to.

I've never been given an apology and somehow I doubt I ever will. I'm just relieved that my children are having a happy childhood and that life is better for them than it ever was for me.

Smithfield, if the texts are annoying you that much, wouldn't it be easier to send a text back saying "we are just fine". I believe you have strong reasons not to answer but then, she doesn't seem to understand why you are annoyed, so it is quite unlikely for her to stop. So... she will continue texting/annoying you until she comes back. Tell her you are fine and get her off your back, at least you will get a bit of peace for youself until she comes back. would that help?

Bearsmum, delaying is a good suggestion, if she comes with my dad at a later time, at least she won't be so focused on me.

Steadyneddy, it seems to me you are managing very well and have managed to keep your mum at bay and are slowly sorting the issues.

"I didn't tell anyone about it but I think the parents of some of my friends suspected that something wasn't right. A couple of the mothers kind of took me under their wing. I've never forgotten their kindness."

I don't know if you will agree with me but I don't think that I missed a lot on not having my mother to be nice to me. The mums of friends and older friends made a lovely work by providing the support, acceptance and love I was lacking at home. I have not not only not forgoten their kindness, I'm totally convinced that I am who I am thanks to those persons who stepped in. I'm forever grateful to them.

... and then she steps in as if she had been doing that work and I feel totally afronted!

bearsmon-thankyou. Your advice is not irrelevant. Far from it! My situation is similar to yours in some ways. Currently I am not sure if I want a permanant break from her or not, but like yourself want the opportunity to build my self confidence and tackle my self esteem. I've Obviously not been able to achieve this 'with' her in my life, so I would like to see if I can do it without IYSWIM.
I think another big issue for me is the fact that she came out to see me (when we were still o/seas) when I gave birth to ds. It was dreadful and marred what should have been a wonderful experience. I wont go into details as I would be on here all day, but I swear she sent me into labour over her tantrum about being allowed in the room whilst I gave birth (something I didnt want as I wanted it to be just me and DH). After the birth she started bullying me over breast feeding. Dictating when I should feed him, but mostly why I shouldnt: I.e you should only be feeding every four hours!! She followed me round the house and burst into my bedroom and if caught breastfeeding she would throw her hand on her hips and say are you feeding him again!. I could go on, it was a nightmare. So needless to say I want her no where near me this time.

memysonandI- I see where you are coming from re sending her a text saying all is fine, but I think the whole reason for contact is because she 'does' know something's wrong as opposed to not realising anything is wrong and simply thinking why is she not replying.
She stayed here the weekend before she left and it was 'not' good. Also she has been to this holiday destination many times and I have been told by her she would not be able to get in touch as mobiles, emails etc do not work at this destination.
I promise you I never usually get this kind of attention form her!

Wow, I missed this! I'm having a bit of a mare right now, conflicted between missing mum and coming to terms with what she did.

Is it normal to only realize years after the fact that your parent was abusive? I mean, she beat the crap out of me on ocassion, regularly humiliated me in front of friends among other things.

But I'd always told myself that she had looked after me and always let me come back home if I was in trouble, and after all, she had it hard and so on.

She spent all her affection and emotional energy on my SN brother, and I was pretty much her punchbag, physically and emotionally.

It's only this year, as I was telling Dh something from childhood, and he pointed out that, no, it's not normal to have had your mother break furniture on you, that reality has dawned. Am I odd for that?

Not odd at all Sue. My experiences were not as bad as yours (I'm sorry for them ), e.g. no or rather very very rare physical violence, but my mother had a great line in emotional blackmail and, yes, abuse. I didn't wake up to it until I had to, because I was being cut out of my parents' lves for rwefusing to leave then dp, now dh.

And I know about the missing her thing my parents are alive but we didn't have contact for 6 years, a slow rapprochement going on now. During that time I missed them badly but was also very indignant on my own behalf. I would dream about them and wake up very disturbed.

OK, good to know I'm not just being silly.

Hi Smithfield, my mother was just the same about breastfeeding, and appeared to think that feeding ds more than once every 4 hours was "spoiling" him, despite the fact he was obviously just a very very hungry baby. She had a problem with bf in general I think, and wanted me to fail (I've always suspected that because she managed to bf me and my sister for 4 weeks she didn't want me to bf ds for longer than that, as if motherhood is some sort of competition). I guess many of our mothers believe they're perfect and what better validation for them than to have us do with our children exactly as they did with us. I hope you'll be able to keep her away from you this time round.

Sue, it's not odd at all. Lots of us (me included) are in the same position, like we've suddenly woken up and can't believe how incredibly blind we've been to what's been going on. There's been lots of discussion about it on this thread and the previous one, and one of the issues is that a child's survival mechanism means they have to believe that their reality is normal, because it's all they have/their parents are all they have (I haven't explained this nearly as eloquently as some on this thread could, sorry ).

Crikey, I do feel better for getting other opinions. I felt like I was just being a bit churlish and self-indulgent. I recall watching Dh's face while I told him about the time she held my face under the hot tap and afterwards pulled a book case down on me, banging it on me until it broke, which I write down and think "Yes, you idiot, of course that's abuse" but it just hadn't even crossed my mind beforehand.