"But we took you to stately homes"... a thread for adult children of abusive families

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This thread is a follow up to "My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry" because we reached the end of the thread life.

I originally posted on that thread to say that my mother had blamed me for something that was in fact her fault, called me a liar, got the rest of the family to gang up on me and then blamed me for splitting up the family.

It generated a huge amount of interest from a number of women who, like me, had grown up in an abusive, or "toxic" family environment where we had been the scapegoat or the dustbin for our parents to dump their own unresolved difficulties. My mother, like all our mothers, has refused to apologise for what she has done and many of us have cut ties with our families in order to recover our lost selves and self-esteem.

Hello to all the recent new posters. I have only had time for a really quick read of all your posts and your childhood experiences. I would strongly urge you to read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. It will help you make sense of your childhood, validate your feelings and give you guidance on how to 'manage' your relationship with your parents in the future.

Sorry don't have much time right now, but well done to all of you for posting your stories on here, you're in the right place. x

bearsmom- And I bet she thought picking him up when he cried was spoiling him too! Mine did. I wouldn't mind if she hadnt harrassed me about it. feel a bit of an idiot for not being able to deal with it but i guess thats the bottom line they have so much power over us. This is all abbout trying to break that power isnt it.
Anyway just wanted to say have a lovely day tommorrow. Stress free!

Sue- my goodness what a terrible time you had of it! My mum was physical on occassion but most of the lashings were from her tongue. I think it was more the physical stuff that I thought was wrong as I got older, but maybe that was because it wasnt continual.The criticism, the controlling and her inability to show any affection were a constant so Yes I would say I had no realisation that that was also abusive behaviour.

I felt like I was just being a bit churlish and self-indulgent.

I think you can not accept your parents could do anything to really harm you so you think you either deserve it or there was something in you that made her behave that way. So for me I developed the belief that I was innately unloveable, and basically crap at everything hence the low self esteem today. Think meeting dh and having ds has started to dispel that. But even with dh I take a lot of convincing!
A good book to read is Toxic Parents by susan forward. Explains it all really well.
I daresay such abuse will have had a profound impact on you and with the gradual realisation that it was in fact abuse you will begin to re-connect with some emotions you have buried.

Oh yes, she thought picking him up when he cried was spoiling him too! And I felt so insecure as a new mother that I took on board all that she said for a while. I look back on ds's first year or so and wish desperately that I'd felt then the way I do now (i.e. much more aware of how warped she is and so much stronger in myself). It would have made the "baby phase" so much easier and more enjoyable for both me and ds. But at least things are good now. He sometimes wakes at night these days having had a bad dream and comes to get me for a hug, and I often think of how I was never allowed to "bother" my parents if I had a bad dream (and I had some really terrifying ones). I used to sit in the corridor outside their firmly closed bedroom door in the middle of the night, completely terrified, but knowing I'd get screamed at if I went in and asked for my mum. Such a lonely feeling . DS will never have to feel like that.

And on a more positive note, I agree, here's to a lovely stress-free day tomorrow .

Merry Christmas all!

Special mention to Purpleone, hope your having a good day with your dc

I hope you are all getting what you need from the day...therapist talk that

Got to go again...christmas dinner calls...my first nut roast, yum

Yes, Happy Christmas to you Ally and to everyone. I have had a crazy couple of weeks, but am definitely going to spend the next week relaxing and also catching up with this thread.

To anyone missing their mother (or a mother) here's a big maternal hug from me to you. I have got a big bosom btw . I hope no-one would describe it as "bustly" but I am very good at hugs - even cyber ones.

I hope you are all enjoying your day.

Hi Pages! Merry Christmas!

Yours good so far?

I'm not missing my mum but thanks for the hug, have one back, I also have a big bosom so we may have problems

Happy Christmas all! Another one here not missing her mother at all (though having a small attack of the guilts, but I'll get over it), but I never say no to a hug, thanks .

How did everyone's day go yesterday?

DD2 wanted to ring nanny.....so she did.
All she heard at the other end was laughter, tv blaring out and as soon as dd2 said hello, the line went dead.

Having a really hard time of the season right now, but dd2's face yesterday was not nice. So much for their xmas spirit...miserable bastards.

Have to get out of the house today, before I scream! x x

Happy Christmas all

Don't miss my parents at all, second christmas since i 'divorced' them so perhaps that's why. But we spent christmas at DH's parents and they are so so so utterly lovely. Kind, caring, loving, just the sort of parents I wish i had. I was very tearful on the way home at the thought of just what I've missed out on all my life and how life could have been sooo different if my parents had been like DH's. All they wanted to do on christmas day was to make it wonderful for everyone and went to so much effort and with not a single expectation of anything in return. If my parents ever made the slightest effort for me (not that they ever did) they would want the earth in return, absolutely everything came with strings attached.

Sorry, didn't mean to ramble, will go now.

PS. I know I mentioned a while ago that i thought my MIL was toxic, and i do think she has slight toxic tendencies, but overall she was lovely on christmas day and i'd rather have had her as my mother than my own mother any day.

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the {{hugs}} Ally & Pages.
Bearsmom & Smithfield-You know my Mom passed on well before my dc came along. Every time I caught myself wishing she were there, I had enough sense to realize she may have made my situation more miserable than better. ...I didn't put ds down for the first 5 months of his life (not quite 100% literal but close-he was a fussy one!). But anyway, 'your baby-you rock it' works both ways . And it is a brief period seen from a wider perspective; I know it is hard to see that when you are in the middle of the fatigue. I could go on and on...

Some women are mean, whether they are your mom or not, and enjoy destroying the joy of others just for their own sport. New babies and tired parent(s) make easy targets. The goal of
Do not care what they say!
may be useful here as well. Like a piece of verbal litter blowing across your yard-let it go-don't try to chase it down.
I know it is hard, easier said than done.

Try to manage your circumstances, don't let someone else presume to be boss.

Hello all, I'm on here because i feel like i have 'writer's block' . I know that sounds weird...I'll try and explain. Over the last few weeks, as I've mentioned on here in my posts I feel like I've discovered a few major pieces of my jigsaw the main one being my feelings about and my relationship with my mum. I had almost completely overlooked her role in our dysfunctional family as she appeared so benign and was usually pleasant. But I have gradually been realising that she in fact has been the one who has hurt me the most and who has affected the way i am as an adult the most, including the sort of parent i was to my own DD.

Anyway, since having this realisation I have been wanting to get my thoughts and feelings about her onto paper and out of my head as that has helped me so much in the past in relation to my dad and our family in general. But i'm finding that when i finally have the opportunity (like now when DH and the kids are at MIL's so I have peace and quiet) I can't seem to sit down and write, whereas all last week i was dying to get my thoughts out but i had no time.

I feel like I am almost avoiding doing what i thought i wanted to and i don't really know why. Was wonderig if anyone has any ideas?

oneplusone-could you try writing random thoughts down, nothing to do with your mum and specific feelings about her, then just see what comes up. It may help you relax and once you get into a writing flow you might be surprised.

Hi, smithfield, that's a good idea, will do that. How are you btw? x

Interesting letter from Mother

Dear Ally
While sorting through the Christmas things I found these which belong to you. Hope you all had a happy Chirstmas Day. I now appreciate that you and dh intend to follow your own path in life, and respect this. Sometime in the future would you consider allowing me to see dd once perhaps every month. I would understand if dh was with dd rather than yourself. I wish you all a very Happy New Year.

Love Mum

enclosed were four santa sacks that were used in my childhood/adulthood.

Well...10 out of 10 for originality, mum. 1 out of 10 for effort. You still need to acknowledge you made me suicidal at just 9 years old. Please go to room and think about what you've done wrong.

Is this the dawning of her civilisation realisation??

Oneplusone - you could also try writing down your memories. Use 'I feel' statements. I feel angry you did not love me...or whatever. I often get writers block too...I can't just 'turn it on' as in, emotion, when everyone is out...feel rather blank and emotionless instead.

Suebaroom, it takes as long as it takes to realise it. Majority of time it seems to be having children/getting married that triggers memories and a mother becoming a bit irrational and trying to get adult child under control again. The problem is no one wants to believe their own mother does not love them. So you believe the things you hear about mothers. Ever have problems picking out a mothers day card? Scanning the shelves for one that was blank inside?

I'm glad you found us :}

Hi Steadyneddy - wish I had had this as a child...! Your childhood reminds me of a book of a childs abuse I read a while back. I can relate to being the black sheep of the family, but not the locking in rooms... How do you feel about staying in contact with your mother? Do you still want an apology/acknowledgement?

Sakura - meant to say (but thread got ahead of me again!) I like how you dealt with your christmas box from your dad. V impressed and proud you did things on your terms. I would say you did just the right thing. Acknowledged his 'gift' and kept yourself safe. Good balance.

Pages - going back to 16th dec post! Yes you can have the blue ribbon trophy thingy I've just had your name engraved...

I too feel that as long as my mother has family around ie me father sister she stays 'okay'. But once you upset that dynamic and is rejected, its like it was me keeping her sane (and making me insane/or emotional rollercoastering). And my dd. Its like we are her medicine and if I went back, all would be normal again...

Anyway...hope you get a few days to catch up on the posts...it gets a bit intimidating trying to catch up now...

Bearsmom - thanks for the trophy I would like to call it the Ally90 Memorial (in ref to my mothers memorial of me) cup. Or a shorter name will do. And thought you outside your mothers room after a nightmare. ((((hugs))))

Hi Ally

In answer to your last question I would have to say no. She's still as mad as a bag of cut snakes/box of frogs and your Dad still enables this behaviour of hers to continue.

Are you going to reply to this letter - if this had been sent to me I would not reply. From what I have read about her as well she will never acknowledge your pain because she is toxic. As for asking for once a month contact with your DD I think that's pushing it.

Would suggest you throw out the sacks if you haven't already done so.

Yours with the hot and fluffy pink towels

Attila xx

Thank you ally90, i have just managed to write a letter to my DD as i mentioned I would do a while ago. My feelings towards her are so completely intertwined with my feelings about my mum, although the actual feelings themselves are completely different IYKWIM.

At least your mum is making an effort of sorts and like you say this may possibly be the dawning of her realisation.

Since i have cut off my parents i haven't heard a thing from my mum, apart from very early on after the divorce when she tried to call on DD's birthday. As soon as i saw her number on my phone i just switched it off. Her making no contact proves to me that i am completely right about her, as i know that a mother who really loves her child wouldn't be able to help herself from getting in touch if only to say 'I love you and I'm sorry' no matter how many times I've told her not to contact me. I feel so reassured that i am not at all like her by the fact that I have written a letter to my DD saying I'm sorry and that I love her even though DD is only 4. I am going to keep the letter and show it to my daughter one day when she is older and try to explain to her why i wrote it.

Maybe i can't write anything in relation to my mum yet because the feelings are still too raw and deep. I feel very hurt that she hasn't contacted me to say she loves me... i know on an intellectual level that she can't actually do that because she doesn't love me....i guess i still haven't come to terms with the fact that she doesn't love me especially when i can see that she does love my sisters so she is capable of loving, just not me. I also know again on an intellectual level that she must have had PND when she had me which prevented her bonding with me and therefore loving me and perhaps her mother had the same when she had her, but knowing all of that doesn't stop me feeling hurt that she didn't love me. And yet I felt the same way about my daughter until recently so i of all people should understand how a mother can feel unable to love one child and yet feel overwhelming love for another child.

What I don't understand though is how she could have thought it was ok to not love one of your children and to just carry on regardless. I knew that the way i felt about my DD was not right and it always bothered me inside although i never really spoke about it to anyone til now, not even DH. Like i've mentioned before i just pretended and acted how i knew i should act as a mother, but inside i knew something wasn't right. I suppose what really drove it home was when i had DS and i felt such a bond and connection with him it made my feelings about my DD feel even more wrong.

It was after I had my DS that I cut myself off from my parents and slowly began realising that they were toxic. What i don't understand about my mum is that she clearly bonded with my 2 younger sisters so why didn't she realise there was something not right in her relationship with me and seek to do something about it? The trouble is I know my mum and I think I know the answer to my own question, she is quite lazy and also a coward and i think she was just too scared and lazy to address teh issues in her relationship with me as it would have undoubtedly meant that she would have had to face her own childhood issues which as we all know on this thread is an extremely hard, painful and courageous thing to do and my mum like i've said is a lazy coward so i guess that's why she just didn't bother. Instead she was quite content to emotionally 'abandon' me and busy herself with my 2 younger sisters who did't raise such difficult issues with her. What a pathetic sad excuse for a mother, in fact she doesn't even deserve to be called a mother.

I have already written her a letter but that was before i had realised all the things i have now realised and i want to write her another letter telling her how i feel and what i think of her. But i am slightly worried that if i do this it will jeopardise the relationship i am slowly rebuilding with my sisters with whom i fell out after i 'divorced' my parents. But then a part of me says i shouldn't worry about my sisters, and i should be true to myself and my feelings and go ahead and write her another letter.

Unlike your mum ally90, i don't think my mum will ever even come close to any sort of realisation, she is too firmly cast in her role of victim and will never ever see herself in any other light. She is also too ignorant and arrogant and stupid to even see that there was something fundamentally wrong in her relationship with me. I know she thinks she was a wonderful mother and is bewildered by what i've done and how i feel about her and my dad. She is so far away from any kind of awareness that i know she will never even come close to any sort of realisation. This is reinforced by my sisters to whom she was much more of a proper mother and so I know i am definately the one they all think is mad and ungrateful a bit like Pages' older brother who was on his own outside the family until he was joined by Pages. I doubt if either of my sisters will ever join me, even once they have their own DC's, they are just too unaware and sadly I think they will live their whole lives in the dark.

oneplusone-I am very well by the way, had a good Christmas with ds and dh. I am getting there with idea of spending xmas without fanily.
I think you did really well with that post. You seemed to have got in touch with some of the anger and hurt there (((hug))). I know what you mean about the inability to form any kind of awareness. My mother has recently been cut out by youngest DB, went through a period (2years) of being cut out from middle DB, and her with sis is limited by sis herself. Looks like Im next to cut her out, (for now at least)
You'd think it might occur to her that she may have gone wrong somewhere along the line...but no...her children are the one's with the issues, if not their partners, or my dad has brainwashed us all!

Ally- have to say at first reading the letter I thought, maybe this is the beginning of some form of awareness, or remorse. On reading it a second time, I changed my mind.

I now appreciate that you and dh intend to follow your own path in life, and respect this.

Hey? what does that mean exactly? Doesn't sound very insightful to me. Yes following your own path beacause you were forced to due to the pain and hurt 'she' caused you. But never mind 'all that' could she at least see dd once a month.

*family (extended)
*time with sis...

Hi, smithfield am glad you're well, i remember you mentioned a chest infection a while ago. Sorry to be nosy, but under what circumstances did your DB's cut off your mother?

I think the only time my sisters' may gain some awareness is when they have their own children, but then they (at least I don't think so) didn't have the kind of relationship i had with my mum so they may have no axe to grind with her so to speak. I honestly don't know how bothered i am if I don't have a relationship with my sisters. Sometimes it bothers me a lot, others not at all...very confusing....I think fundamentally it can only ever be superficial unless and until they become aware about our parents. What sort of relationship do you have with your siblings?

Ally90, I am the same as smithfield, when i first read your post i thought gosh your mum may be gaining a little bit of insight, but now reading it again i think no, i would steer well clear of her.

oneplusone- Gosh where to start??... and apologies if this is long but it is complex (isnt it always!)
Middle db cut my mum out for 2years. It was interesting in retrospect cos I had gone o/seas and eventually she gave middle DB some of what I had had for years. I.e triggered by something trivial (think he'd borrowed my sis's tv without asking her) She just began abusing him, first on the phone then in person. She then endevoured to involve other members of the family as per usual. Kind of ganging up mentality.

I guess it may have worked had it been me but for DB having 'never' had to deal with this (at least on this level before) and I guess bolstered by a strong relationship with his then DF, he refused to talk to her.
Lasted two years. Eventually sil badgered DB into talking to mum again due to arrival of their ds.

Soon after the above argument my dad and mum divorced. It was a very bitter, long winded divorce. They would each call and say what the other had done with the intention of getting us to take sides.
I am not entirely sure but younger ds I think cut my mother off out of loyalty to my dad. Although I know he did feel she was not much of a mother. I do not have a relationship with younger db so its difficult to say.

sis, was also part of the argument above. She did not speak to middle db either and was living with mum. I was still o/seas at the time. My Dbs had moved out. So now my sis who also always got along with mother and seemed to escape much of mothers wrath, started to get it. So in fact 'she' began to get treatment I had always got. It did get really bad for her. We did become very close beacuse of this at the time. I felt better as well beacuse I felt validated for the first time in my life. Then again, not just cos of sis, but dad (yes Im afraid I bought in to his manipulations for a while) and DBs. I had just came back form o/s.
My sis has distanced herself from me again now and Im not sure why.

In a long winded way...that is/was the story but the moral is, in toxic family's it runs deep. The damage spreads further than the main victim or scapegoat (whichever child takes that role- in our cases you and I).

You may find that with yourself out of the picture your sisters at some stage may get some of what you experienced? Then again they may not.
But as hard as it is, you have to leave them to follow their own path.
By being toxic our parents have dragged the whole family into that arena. After all your siblings will have been taught exactly what your role in the family was to be. For us we were the outsiders, the scapegoats, or emotional dumping grounds.
Difficult for us to unlearn those roles 'with insight' let alone our siblings without any insight at all.
So perhaps having closely bonded relationships with our siblings may just not be possible. If it is to be we have to teach them the new terms and they will have to except them. It's the conclusion Im coming to and not without much sadness . We have to do what's right for us now!

sorry should read younger DB* I think cut my mother off out of loyalty to my dad

would be grateful for more insights on siblings from you guys. Its such tricky ground isnt it??

Ally- the letter is tricky because it sounds civil.
IMHO,the bait she is using is the "...intend to follow your own path in life and respect this" line.
The manipulation is the 'little bit strategy-who could object to this very small request?' Especially so humbly worded: sometime, consider, perhaps...even accepting that dh would chaperon dd - how could you possibly say no?

If you respond, I hope it is negative because this will be a toe in the door for more and more time, then the gifts will start-small at first, then bigger, more expensive and manipulative. I am just guessing...but you know in your heart what it will lead to, so listen to your gut instinct.