"But we took you to stately homes"... a thread for adult children of abusive families

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This thread is a follow up to "My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry" because we reached the end of the thread life.

I originally posted on that thread to say that my mother had blamed me for something that was in fact her fault, called me a liar, got the rest of the family to gang up on me and then blamed me for splitting up the family.

It generated a huge amount of interest from a number of women who, like me, had grown up in an abusive, or "toxic" family environment where we had been the scapegoat or the dustbin for our parents to dump their own unresolved difficulties. My mother, like all our mothers, has refused to apologise for what she has done and many of us have cut ties with our families in order to recover our lost selves and self-esteem.

Ive now got to the stage that I am going through a bit of a crisis - I accidentally got pregnant and just over a week ago terminated the pregnancy. DH and I were in agreement, but the real reason I did it is that I felt so emotionally fragile and beaten up by the last 6 years.

My pain is very fresh, I got married to DH last year - a wedding that my parents paid for. I did try and cancel it, after a "hissy fit" by my mum but DH talked me into doing it. It was an unmitgated disaster, the lack of respect and warmth between me and my parents was palable. My fathers speech was pathetic, he even got heckled because it was so shit. I hasten to add that my father is a very successful businessman who has a reputation as a good speaker - so nerves was no execuse.

And now, even their presence is painful. I finally know that it isn't my fault, they do not know how to love. But the pretence makes me ill and I hate them taking the boys away but feel torn that it is not my place to deprive them of their grandparents. Made doubly difficult as DH has no family so mine is all that they have.

Notalone/MDC
(Answered notalone and I'm only going to repeat myself for you MDC! And god knows I've used up enough thread space today what I say applys to you both)

• It didn't feel like courage, courage is speaking to someone face to face. I'm assured that letters/emails are just as appropriate, but I don't think my parents saw them as that. But I do know I could not have told them face to face what they had done. I've tried it before and all I got was 'but we took you to stately homes' denial of your experiences is very painful to hear. At least with a letter they can't argue back, they have to read it (or not if they chose). I always thought that I had not explained/been clear enough about my abuse, but having sent a letter with it crystal clear and still get back a denial. Then I want to go and write another one to FORCE them to see it...I think I've packed that idea away now. If they wanted to be empathetic/could be they would have done by now

You could send a letter and ask for space. Its your health we're talking about. Sitting on all this abuse is not healthy. Your dc most important relationship is with you not with gp. I really feel for you, its so hard to deal with all this. But you need to take babysteps to get out of this situation. First get yourself a therapist. (Someone asked how to find a good one...think attila posted a link on other thread, will look) and start taking your abuse seriously. It did happen. It is affecting you now. It won't go away, ever. But you can improve things. We all have to start somewhere in the recovery process and the rest just follows as you become emotionally healthier and more emotionally balanced and start respecting yourself and what you deem as acceptable behaviour to yourself. And start setting boundries and that's where the parents get a shock and then...well things change. Inevitably if you are acting for yourself, for the better. You can do it, you just need the right tools for the job ie therapy.

Sorry to not separate that out MDC...got to go now. But when I reread it, it all applys to you too. Just think babysteps. Don't worry about dc and their relationship with gp yet, its early days. Just look after yourself (esp after termination {{{{hugs}}}} ), and get a therapist if you can.

And remember to keep coming back to this thread. Remember us when your parents are having a go...you can always report back here and get empathy and understanding!

ally, your summary was a great post, really insightful and you took us through the emotional process and now if you could hear how strong you sound . You're so funny too - not playing jolly hockey sticks with your mother haha!

notalone, see my parents would have ^loved to "rescue" me in a crisis, reinforcing their role as all powerful in my life. Reminding me that I need them and in no way could survive without them.
Seeing me able to cope alone, be happy and independant has driven them loopy.

It just goes to show that our pain is experienced in many forms and there are no black and white answers

MD, I think you are well within your rights to not let your kids go to see them. Just temporarily while you sort yourself out. You have had a termination and, lets be honest, its because of the way they are influencing your state of mind. You might not realise it now but it is terrible that they are inside your skin like this. You need to detox yourself of them in order to see straight (detox the toxic parents!) Then you can think about weekend visits.

You have to prepare yourself for the onslaught. Everyone here knows how utterly and miserably frightening it is to give our parents some boundaries and the repercussions that follow (stalking, angaer, threats- my mother threatened to go to court to get access to DD and excercise her "rights" towards my child. It just made me sure that I'd done the right thing by keeping DD away from her)
But I think its essential for our mental health. Who is more important to you- you or your parents? I think your boys need you more than they need their grandparents, personally. As they say, no one ever got fucked up by not having a grandmother in their life!

To be honest, they must have brought you really low if you have had a termination as a result of all the upset over the past few years. I feel its so sad and really hope you can see the light at the end of the tunnel soon.If you do decide to make changes, we'll be here with you every step of the way. Or would it be possible to find a therapist?

Can I quickly pick someone's brains?

Haven't spoke to my dad for 5 months, along with my mum. However, my dad has posted me a cheque, I recieved it today.

The money is greatley needed, but should I post it back again and tell him to go stuff it?

Advice appreciated x

MDC and all - re: the end Ally's excellent (as usual post):
...You'll find empathy and understanding here...
I would like to add that you will also find:

VALIDATION

This has been mentioned before-perhaps in the other thread, but it is so important. Perhaps others can elaborate and explain better than I can.

What you feel is valid.
That you need to do something about it is valid.
Not putting up with it anymore is valid.

The toxic ones know this is one of our key weaknesses because they've refused to validate us in our own right, or without some vital connection or reflection back to themselves, on their terms.

You are valid without any reference or connection to them.

I mentioned this before also- you are (or want to, or need to) making a new foundation for yourself and things are going to shake around a bit before it gets settled. As an adult, married partner, and/or parent, it is valid for you to have your own stable foundation. "Crap parents! Crap parents! Crap parents!" (who do I quote?-Pages?) do not make a good foundation.

Brains and backbone are hard to beat. But it is a "long row to hoe", so be patient and don't let your guard down just because 'x' amount of time has passed. Baby steps, exactly.

To all: Sincerest wishes for a lovely Christmas and Holiday season.

Nicely put TMSB thanks for compliment (working on taking it in) and when I don't acknowledge compliments made...I'm just reverting back to type! Cause some of you have said some really nice things and I don't mention it... kind of like water off a ducks back...probably down to my mother bitching about me, then making a compliment and my reaction is 'yeah right!'. But none of you are my mother...feel better that is out...

Purpleone - what reaction would you get back if you told him to stuff it? What outcome do you want? I'm just firing the questions at you that my therapist throws at me when I want to tell parents to get stuffed . Your looking for the best outcome for you and dd's and what YOU want. By all means tell him to get stuffed, but, you could get a verbal backlash from doing so therefore engaging with your parents again. So options:

a) Tell him to get stuffed, what do you think is the possible outcome?
b) say nothing and don't cash the cheque. What would the outcome possibly be?
c) send a polite letter thanking him but saying you will not be accepting it and asking him not to send any in future. What would the possible outcome be?
d) Cash it in. Outcome?

You have choices on how to respond to this, or not respond. And you have no time limit to do so. Having said that I always felt there was a time limit ie how impatient my parents felt. But this is about you. Not your dad. Respond, if you choose, when you are ready.

But if you really need the money...I feel for you. Still think of the ultimate outcome. How short of money are you (if that is too personal, ignore my question )?

What a brilliant post - toomany

It really is a big step to think that actually I am worth more than that. Its a tonne of put downs over the years:

• its a eight year old girl climbing a tree and proudly looking down at her father, who lying on the ground starts casually throwing sticks at her

• its as a twelve year old getting a hole in one at golf and my mum could hardly say the words "well done". The look on her face was one of pure distate that I had achieved something she had never done.

• its achieving something to be told, without a pause for well done to be asked to do the next thing. I see this with my own kids, my dad moves seamlessly to the next intellectual challenge without a pause for congrulations.

• its phoning your mum after having been away for a year travelling across Africa to tell her what flight you are returning on - to be told "I hope you're not expecting me to take a days holiday to pick you up"

• its getting married, your fathers speech said nothing about you other than - I think that she will achieve great things yet in her life

• its tackling father about said shit speech to be told "maybe it wasn't what you expected to hear". Dad it was my wedding day!

And of course over the years, you stop trying just because it winds them up and its a pretty easy, lazy type of protest.

The scary thing is my dad has mellowed as he has got older, what the hell was he like when he was younger. I just have this vague rememberance of being scared of him, though he wasn't a physically violent man.

So yes VALIDATION - that wasn't right, it was careless, selfish and at times just darn cruel.

Thank you for the compliments, too.
When I get one, it is my impulse to think-"ok, what do you want?" And usually -not here of course-, I'm spot on.

And re-reading my post, I mean that your brains and backbone are hard to beat; the toxic ones may think they are the smart ones, but we are on to them . They can be made to understand that they will simply have to use someone else (since we know they won't change) for their emotional neediness (or whatever).

Had a busy week and can see this thread has been busy too! Back later to catch up with about 100 posts...

I liked mostdefinitely's list of put downs by way of example of how the poison can seep through over time rather than necessairly one specific incident of major neglect or abuse.

I think getting it down on here helps get it out of your head where it initially stayed and caused damage to us. It reminded me how many hundreds of incidents/comments that occurred over time and slowly chipped away at my self-esteem.

Puple One - the chq question is a good one and it all depends on the consequences and whether he will use it against you in the future. God you will probably all strike me down with virtual bolts of lightening and this sounds horribly callous but my parents have a fair bit of money which will be an inheritance one day and I view this as compensation for what they put me through. If I had been injured by say an attack I may be entitled to compensation from criminal injuries, so why not for mental torture.

MDC - does your DH know exactly what your parents put you through? It may be better to have just your own family unit rather than having a cold extended one.

Hi Pages, glad you're back, was wondering where you had disappeared to! I have come to terms with my toxic parents, but now have to contend with my toxic mother in law next week on christmas day and boxing day. I have been pondering for ages whether she is in fact toxic as she comes across all lovely, but I am good at spotting toxic people these days and she is definately one of them.

I've never really liked her and she has always somehow reminded me of my dad who is highly toxic. Oh well, only have to put up with her for 2 days, guess i can manage it after 37 years of my parents.

I'd like to ask a question about grandparent access with this kind of abusive family.

Like many of you I'm struggling with issues left over from my abusive family. They are now totally obsessed and 'in love' with my two boys however.

I find myself angry and usually depressed whenever we spend time with them, for reasons that will be familiar to most of you.

But I find I also get 'extra angry' at the way my father in particular now ignores me totally and focuses on the boys.

wWhen I had PND I told him I didn't feel he had ever acknowledged any of my feelings and he actually said 'well I help you with ds1'- that's all he thinks he has to do now.

I end up feeling, 'how dare you treat me like sh** and then carry on ignoring me when someone cuter comes along'. I get these really punitive feelings welling up and want to take the boys away from them.

The depth of bitterness I feel is quite scary sometimes especially as I have accepted (on one level) that my parents cannot love properly and that I will never have any form of apology or acknowledgment from them...
can't decide whether I should start 'restricting access' as it were because this situation makes me feel ill.

Notalone - Reserving the bolt of lightening...for myself...both dh's family and my family have money. Don't think I've been cut out of mine, yet. But never thought of it as compensation...interesting thought

Are you still reading Pages? You posted at 8.30 am don't tell me...most of them are mine...I kept posting and thinking 'wonder how long it will take Pages to read all this?' luckily the mahoosive one is just recycled past history.

Hi Everyone,

Wanted to wish all of you a merry xmas

Not had much time to post but have been keeping up with the thread.

Oneplusone- I was so happy to read your post re-your breakthrough with feelings for dd. I thought the letter was a beautiful idea. As I was reading I just thought what a lovely mother you are. I wish my mother could have had half the insight you have, your dd is one lucky little girl.
Would like to know more about your toxic MIL, as I definately struggle with this myself. I never know whether its me being mistrusting because of my background or not IYKWIM.

DomesticgodlessyMG's- Do you feel like sharing your story-Would help you as I think you woulf find it quite cathartic- Apologies if you have done this and I missed it!

Purpleone-re cheque- have there been strings attached in the past. What is your 'gut' feeling on this?

TMSB's- How is the PG going, sorry didnt realise you are only 2 weeks behind me!
Also wanted/have been meaning to say to you that I can relate to the social side of things. My nan (mums mum) was I believe avoidant personality disorder.

'In Avoidant Personality Disorder, the person maintains a systematic avoidance of social contacts and any situation which might result in embarrassment or anxiety. Even with people who are close, he or she avoids a more intimate involvement.'

My nan would not allow my mum to bring anyone into the house, she would not allow my grandad to bring anyone to the house either. Interestingly as a kid and well into my 20s I was crippled by shyness. As a kid I would rather be in pain than ask for the loo. I think in the last six years I have overcome this, but it marred most of my younger years.

I keep coming back to this thread and reading it thinking, oh yes, I identify with that, but then think there is no need to write it down. Weird huh.

notalone - thats exactly how I feel about the money my parents have, though my parents have thought of that one. They are setting up shareholder pension schemes for the boys. Actually I might well have written myself out of the will

domesticgodless - you have described my dad to a tee, totally in love with the boys and desperate to take them away for holidays without us. He won't come and see them at our house, or pop in for a coffee or pick them up for school. But wants to take them away for a week. Its tough in our house, as Dh has no family that he speaks to (seriously poor dysfunctional family) and my dad was really good to him before the boys came along. But that relationship has disintegrated since as well. It eats me up inside, as my father literally steps over me to get to the boys

Vs-would like to hear your story if you are willing to share it?

Interesting thread. My childhood was fine - no really! but being a teenager/early 20s was very hard work since my sister seemed to resent me becoming an adult (getting a better job/passing test in less attempts than she had all got bitchy comments ). My ex bf couldn't stand her since she can be quite domineering but I tend to let her get on with it now. One of us has to be the adult!

HI Smithfield et al

I would like to share but weirdly I find I can't do it yet!!

I think I feel ashamed in some way. That I haven't 'got over it yet'.

Been told by family members to do just that so many times and to 'stop moaning'.

My history not is at all 'interesting', just a dull everyday tale of suburban emotional abuse by two very damaged parents.

It's been really helpful to read others' posts on this thread, I will be back.

Domesticgoddess - my DH has a much more racy childhood with his mum walking out and being beaten up. I can't compete with his obviously abusive/dysfunctional childhood.

But it doesn't make my pain any less valid, just more subtle and hidden. It has taken me to my mid 30's to admit that it was f**d up.

We would love to hear from you when you are ready.

am coming here tonight for advice and hopefully support too

ally90 directed me here after some wonderful sympathy and advice on my thread the other day about me dreading having to see my mother (and aunt, and stepdad ) all in one day......tis a shitty feeling dreading things like that!

I haven't read the thread in full as yet, so sorry for now.....will hoefully do that a bit later. am on a 10min break from pressie wrapping for my five monsters children.

All i am hoping for is advice and support. I have had councelling (for whatever that was worth), and it really hasn't helped in the way I needed/wanted. it is very hard for me as no-one in my real-life group of friends has had anything LIKE the childhood I had, so it is hard for them to understand how it affects me.

I soooooo need someone out there to just say "I know. I know how you feel, and how it gets at you and eats you up, and how it makes all those moments when you are finding being a mum hard, as the only role model you had was the worst ever thing in the world!"

sorry....am gonna go for now and come again later. need so much to tell, yet have absolutely no need to sob on my laptop, especially when I am trying to make my kiddies xmas everything they want for this year!

and