"But we took you to stately homes"... a thread for adult children of abusive families

[Pages]

This thread is a follow up to "My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry" because we reached the end of the thread life.

I originally posted on that thread to say that my mother had blamed me for something that was in fact her fault, called me a liar, got the rest of the family to gang up on me and then blamed me for splitting up the family.

It generated a huge amount of interest from a number of women who, like me, had grown up in an abusive, or "toxic" family environment where we had been the scapegoat or the dustbin for our parents to dump their own unresolved difficulties. My mother, like all our mothers, has refused to apologise for what she has done and many of us have cut ties with our families in order to recover our lost selves and self-esteem.

My mother had a terrible time when small. My Nana (father's mum) once told me her (my mother) father trapped her fingers in the car door but she idolised her dad.

My mother's father left me on my other nana's door step once as they said they didn't want me.

I understand that my mother had a crap childhood so didn't know how to be a mother, perhaps but mine was much worse and I have kept my kids and are trying even if I am making tonnes of mistakes. Choices maybe? Just like she chose her boyfriend over me.

His ex wanted maintanance from him for their child together once she heard I was going to live with them. they didn't want to pay her money so they left me in care!

And all those things you say Nab are the reason I think we should all be sterilsed until we are considered fit to be parents and had training on the phyiscal and emotional development of them. sadly I don't think the raving loony party will get in this next election...

OMG! you've just reminded me about my mothers mid-life crisis. In a drunken stupor last summer when she was supposed to be helping us move house, she announces to me that she's in love with a family friend(he's 12 years younger than her) and started to tell me details of her and my dads (stepdad) sex life (or lack of it).

This mid-life crisis took a turn for the worse when I was at work one evening (I work behind the bar in a pub 1 evening a week in the village where she lives) and the 'family friend' was there and she was stood at the end of the bar with him quite blatantly touching him up. He was just as embarrassed as I was. Why would any mother think that it's ok to do that in front of their daughter? I've also heard stories of my mother at a birthday party where she disappeared outside with a guy for ages and then reappeared holding hands with him.

This woman is just a bloody embarrassment. The thing is because I was so humiliated/shocked/embarrassed by her actions I just did not want to talk to her about this so she turned to my older brother who obviously did listen. Butter wouldn't melt in his mouth now. Him and his children are being invited around to her house for Sunday roasts (we've never once been invited). They are going out together at weekends(she's never wanted to do that with me). Am I wrong to be hurting over this?

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Danae- you do sound a lot better!-very calm and strong and everything in perspective. I know what you mean about the thought that the sky might fall in- its as though by rejecting your mother you are doing something unnatural- against nature, and we can't shake the feeling that there will be bad consequences apart from the obvious escalating abuse. Its a shame these people didn't feel there would be bad consequences for rejecting the children that they created. They had a choice, we didn't!

Welcome to the others who have joined. IT is very theraputic to just write down all your thoughts. Often something you have written will trigger something in another person on here, and they can help you through it.

I was very interested to read about the people who fell into a relationship with a toxic MIL. This happened to me.

Nab, OMG your mother!! And MIL!! WHat the hell are they playing at! Please try to take steps to keep away from them. I'm really angry at your MIL- what a snidy woman!

Smithfield- thanks for the lovely advice regarding travelling. Yes I will do that. I feel this is the first time I am going back as "adult".

Pages, yes, I do think that there are lots of similarities between my feelings towards my father and your feelings towards your mother. You know the american lawyers website about NPD- well one thing that was interesting was about all the ways they let you experience pain without inflicting it directly. I feel in some ways my father used my mother by proxy to inflict pain on me (perhaps like your mother did with your step father) Letting someone inflict pain on your child is the same as inflicting it yourself isn't it, or even worse, because you can act all innocent whereas at least the "pain-inflictor" has to face their actions to a certain extent?
I feel that my father's role is much bigger in all of this than I first imagined. He was a terrible husband. Now he is trying to turn my brothers and me against my mother (of course I don't need any help with that- but it seems that he feels that highlighting her bad points makes him as white as snow.) He has also "taken over" my mother's place in her family. He "gets along" with her brothers and even her mother and was invited to a family function on my mother's side that my mother didn't go to. Its like the talented Mr RIpley or something!!
Now the smoke has cleared, I am uncovering a lot of anger towards him. I honestly feel as though he gagged me throughout my childhood years. Once when I was 10, he took me to move furniture for his mother, and I dislocated my collar bone- this was a manageable pain, not excruciating, and I never told him. Not at the time nor ever. Because I knew he was stressed about getting the furniture moved for his mother and that he would get angry and vicious if I slowed him down. I have pain in my shoulder to this day, my collar bone is at a slant and it has affected my spine. And I was too scared to tell him!! For this, I hate him. Hate him. Hate him for gagging me like this and then forcing me to turn the anger towards myself because I was not allowed to direct it at him as a little girl.

I am staying with my brothers in the UK and I haven't told my dad I'm coming yet. I don't know why, but I feel that I am on the verge of another 'realisation' regarding my father I'm not sure whether to visit him or not. Why should I visit him when I'm not seeing my mother. Actually with my mother its a kind of primal fear, I just feel scared at the thought of her because she has the ability to frighten me so much, but I don't feel as scared of my father. SO I may visit him after all...but I wonder if I am just desperately trying to find good points in him so I don't have to go through with the realisation
Any advice would be welcome- should I visit my father?

Hi. My dad's been a smoking alcoholic since before I was born (I'm 30), my mum's spent time in a mental institution, does this qualify me to join this thread?

, yes you qualify!!
ANYone who has a dodgy relationship with their mother qualifies!

She's not like my mum, my mum changed when she went a bit nuts when I was 10. She was quite nice before this, then she turned into a shouting, bossy thing that looked like my mum. She can get quite needy now, always some sort of drama going on. My life was crap. Crap school, crap council estate, crap damp bedroom, crap, crap. Then I earned one a level and I escaped! Now I have a lew degree and am doing a masters and I'M NEVER GOING BACK. I feel much better now.

Good for you. Why did she change when you were 10? I read about another woman whose mother had another baby when she was 8, then a long-lasting kind of PND that turned her into NPD or something? I'm sure my mother was always bad, but I wonder why some mothers just suddenly change? I'm terrified that it might happen to me?! I know I'm doing okay now regarding DD but what if I lose it? Finding out why women do and if there is a trigger would put my mind at ease.

ally, by the way how's it going with you these days? How's you daughter
Thanks for the kind words regarding my father.

She had a nervous breakdown. They gave her ECT in the hospital and it frazzled part of her brain. She was never the same after this. She's been taken drugs for years. She's quite stable now, can get a bit needy sometimes. Had a major event a few years ago before her mum died. Some tw*t doctor told her she'd probably got bowel cancer aswell, a couple of months before her sister died on the living room floor. She doesn't handle stress very well. She phoned me at 6am because she thought she'd killed me.
You know there's a problem. You're half way there. Take each day as it comes, some will be crap, some will be good. Just remember that tomorrow will be better.

GOd thats awful-whats ECT, its not electric shock treatment is is? Thats barbaric for them to do that without properly knowing the side effects, or acting as though the side effects were justified - so sad.

Hi, just when I thought I had nearly caught up... just wanted to say welcome to Nab and Mampam. I haven't had time to catch up properly, am a bit obsessed with work issues atm and also the guilt/shame issues that they are throwing up for me, so am (selfishly) spending time on Smithfield's reparenting link to try and establish why it is that I feel such incredible shame when I have not done/am not perceived as having done something well. Does anyone else suffer extreme reactions to "public humiliation" (ie when you have said or done the wrong thing at work or in front of others) that keeps them awake at night wondering if everyone you know professionally thinks you are a complete twat? It seems to be happeneing more and mroe lately and I am sure it is "the universe" bringing this particular problem of mine into my awareness. I am certain it has everything to do with the humiliation of me by my stepfather but I haven't yet worked out how to get it to stop.

Ally, thanks, I had already decided along the lines of what you said - I have nothing left to say to my mother and already told her that. As you say she knows what I want - a proper apology, and I also know she doesn't and won't aver see herself as reponsible for anything thats happened, so it is never going to happen.
Tbh she is the last thing on my mind atm.

Sakura, again can really relate to the suffering in silence. I think you need to decide what sort of break you want to have and whether you are ready for a confrontation with your father because it is inevitable that will happen if you see him feeling the way you are now. I would try and think a few steps ahead and decide how you want to be feeling on the plane home - do you want to be feeling relaxed and happy that you had a good break this time (unlike last time when your mother spoiled it) or do you think you will feel annoyed that you didn't have things out with your father face to face while you had the opportunity? Or do you think that you can cope with the stress of dealing with it in the hope of feeling liberated when you come away (which of course is how I felt when I saw my mother last, stressful though it was at the time) - do you feel you can stay "adult" with him and tell him how badly he let you down, that he was a passive abuser (which he was) and walk away without him turning it back on you and making you feel bad with his "that's so sad Sakura" s**t?

Twas elctric shock treatment. It was seen as the hip thing to do 20 years ago. They only realised it had toasted some of her brain after they had done an MRI and CT. She was not the same person when she came home. It took a long time to get to know her again. She wnet through the menepause a couple of years later, god talk about walking around on egg shells. She was evil until the gp put her on HRT. My dad would just sit there smoking. He would get his beer out at 7:30, used to spend the hours before watching the clock. I couldn't stay up after 10, he'd give lectures about why I should leave school and deliver betterware booklets. I was not allowed to watch movies from other countries or with subtitles because he used to moan. He used to fall up the stairs. A bit sad really. Now I can't date men that like to drink. School was crap. I was always really miserable because I was bored. I wanted to learn so much but I was in a class of hooligans. I wish someone would have told me about scholarships and boarding schools. I wish I could have told someone how bad I was feeling. Parents were otherwise occupied, teachers didn't care. Can't do anything about it now, except to make sure my son has these chances.

Every day will bring something beautiful to your life. ou just have to learn to see it through the rubbish.

I can't tell you how great it is to hear I am not completely alone.

I would like to hear of other people who were in care, too, as that has a different affect on one as from those that lived with their parents but had a terrible time.

sakura- I relate to what you are going through with your dad. I haven't even attempted to scratch the surface with this yet. I just can't face it all just now.

I know I must have done as you did as a child and split my mum and dad into good cop and bad cop, so to speak.

He is also doing similar things since he and mum split, deviding the family. LOL at Mr Ripley BTW!

But I think the key thing for you here is you say part of you still 'wants' him to be the good parent. At least that way you will have the 1 parent right?

I know because I am struggling with this too.

I think you have confronted him in the past and nothing changed as a result, so I guess now your left with a decision as to how much contact you want with him as a result of that.

I think you are also in reaching the point that your fathers image (or at least the one you held of him as a child) Is currently changing. Hence the repressed memories of him returning.
The truth is coming into focus and his mask has begun to slip.
I think you realise at this point there is no turning him back into good cop? But part of you may wish could?

I think until 'you' are clear what you do and dont want you need to avoid him perhaps (just my view of course).
Also sakura, this 'is' your holiday, your break, well deserved, if you want it to be a restful one as Pages said????

Pages- So sorry you are having such a bad time at work atm. Yes I can relate to what you are saying. I will dwell on something I say at a meeting if I dont get a positive response. Thing is I may have also said several other things that were met positively and yet I will dwell on the one thing that wasnt??
I definately think that yes your stepdads constant jibes and putting you down are to blame here. He has created this hypersensitivity in you. Not sure how to get past it really. But I am looking into doing some NLP atm. Im thinking if I can find a way of re-programming some of those negative messages embedded by my past It would be useful?
Also could you keep a journal of what specific things trigger your responses. By writing the incident and your response you may gain some greater clarity? Try and tune into what messages your subconcious is giving you at the time.

Sorry- I will write some more personals but have to have a quick rant first and then I will be back!

GRrrrrrrrr- My mother rang this am and caught me out again. Now this is also an interesting one as her mask is now slipping. Heard the mother of old on the phone today.

She says; 'Smithfield? Right! you said you would call me back. I've been trying to find out how you are!'

Me; 'It's not a good time now! (god Im crap aren't I) But actually it really wasnt.

Mum ' But I want to know how your are?'

me 'not a good time now mum'

Now the interesting thing is she now begins to launch into why I am an unpleasant person for not telling her there and then how I am...well actually she didnt get very far cos I put the phone down. How very adult of me...but....I was soo It would have been far worse had the conversation continued. Im just not at the 'sorry you feel that way yet!'

So no more mrs nice mum bearing...mobile phone gifts...no more mrs suffering...on her death bed...the mrs I'm gonna tell you what a horrible daughter you are 'is' back in town.

Good to see her actually cos now I feel vindicated! But yes my heart is going like the clappers and no doubt a duvet day may occur tommorrow?

Sorry rant over

You're not alone. We learn from the mistakes of our parents. We learn not to do the same thing. I think in 15 years time my son will be on this site moaning about me, "oh, we were always broke, she sent me off to a private school and I had to do loads of work, she wouldn't buy me loads of LEGO, she made me eat vegetables..."

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Danae- yes you are right (re calm), and thanks. Doesnt help that Im a tad sleep deprived today.

But I think its definately a step in the right direction that firstly I refused to engage with her and secondly I can honestly say I feel no guilt at all in cutting her off mid flow. I feel more angry at her persistance in trying to invade my boundaries, and of course stepping it all up 5 days before I am due.
It seems I have begun to believe I have a right to say no to her after all!

I am going to buy a new phone on monday...with caller ID. And Im off for a nap too if ds will oblige. Be back later to finish off those personals.

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Five days Smithfield - how exciting. Do you know what you are getting other than a baby??

Yes, Smithfield and Danae, it is exactly the things you describe - feeling like what I said at a meeting was stupid when it doesn't get a positive reponse, getting something a bit wrong in front of authority figures and other professionals - I imagine them all sniggering and telling peolpe how stupid I sounded after I have left the room. It's hard to explain without telling you what I do, but lets just say I do a lot of public speaking - some days I am eloquent and knowledgeable, other days less prepared and what I say comes out all garbled - I want to die of shame.

I have ordered some books on shame from Amazon. I know that I am hypersensitive and my profession tends to attract a lot of cocky and self-assured people, so I am sure they don't analsye (and kick) themselves for days afterwards when they get something wrong the way I do.

Anyway, liked what you said about it being a ripple from my past and I think, like some of you have said, it is the next challenge to overcome (so pleased that's how you now think of your mother Danae) so lets keep each other posted.

Kaz- No idea what Im getting, which Im really pleased about actually because it makes it all the more exciting (although have to admit been a bit anxious about having a girl)
How are you doing by the way

Pages- The hypersensitivity is all part of what you experienced as a child from your stepdad Im sure. Not your fault, and I think it shows your strength of character that you have gone on to do the kind of work you do regardless of his influence.

As as child and teen, and some way into my twenties, I could barely open my mouth in front of anyone. Yet like you for some reason I pushed myself toward what I feared the most.

It sounds like your confidence has taken some knocks and now its hard for you to get back on track maybe?
A book I read a while back I found quite useful, is 'feel the fear and do it anyway', also found this quite good in tape/cd format so I could let it sink into my subconcious.
Im really sorry your having such a hard time pages. (((hugs)))

Danae- love your names for your mum they always make me lol, but I'm likeing 'em even better when you use them on my mother.

Toomany- I am indeed looking forward to getting my body back to myself now. And meeting the new bub as well. Its hard though isnt it at this stage. Lack of sleep too, cruel mother nature.
Glad to see you have stood up to ms. Sounds like you have finally thrown the bucket of water and are currently watching her melt

Nab- you are certainly not alone. keep posting. I cant think of anyone with the exact same circumstances as you but I know we will all have felt like we were abandoned emotionally.
Also if you keep posting you never know who is reading and eventually by sharing your story you may well encourage someone with similar circumstances as you to post too.

Ally- Ahhh thankyou for thinking of me as a success story. I re-read a bit of toxic parents last night and I think it said three months is a bit of a watershed. Not quite there yet but definately feeling more confident and will assess everything as time wears on.
Yes, I had accessed some real zen like calm there for sometime there But I will regain it, with the help of caller ID
I think.

Smithfield, thanks so much, you seem to get exactly what's happening, probably because you have been through it. "Feel the Fear.." is a brilliant book, I read it about 15 years ago when I was coming to exactly the same impasse in my previous career, and yes, as you say I have always been someone who has pushed myself out of my comfort zone. With my previous career I really had stopped enjoying what I was doing, so had a change and retrained. But now I really do love what I do, I think I just need to address this crisis of confidence.

I think perfectionism (because of my past) also comes into it. I was reading through the "shame and guilt" bit on the parenting link you gave us and it is funny how many traits I have on the guilt thread (ie perfectionism) rather than the shame one, and I wondered how much of my shame is actually masked guilt at not performing to top notch as my mother always wanted me to do. Also, there is no doubt that the humiliation I suffered from my stepdad is a running theme that still needs to be addressed. Anyway, I've ordered the books and am going to do some work on that.

I think we have also said we are all a bit prone to seeing things in black and white because of our NPD parents, and for me the inconsistences in my care as a child. I think because as a child I was either "brilliant" if doing something well (reflecting well on my mother), or stupid and worthless or ignored, never just allowed to be human and make mistakes, that's something that is still making it hard for me to accept my failings in the present day.

Now, at last some time to catch up on rest of thread...

Quick post...sneaking on!

Smithfield, yes it is a annoying when they piss all over your boundries, but perhaps accept the fact it WILL happen, then keep them strong and feel good that she is clearly not happy about it all re illness/you a bad dd (my god at what time is that a good time to tell your dd, 5 days due?!?!) and feel GOOD that you DO have boundries, she can try to pretend they are not there but fact is, they are, and the only way she can get to you is by phone...and when you get caller ID

Duvet days happen, its delayed shock I think from the contact, but when that is by hopefully your determination will flood back and your zen calm...soothing thoughts to baby

And remember, you are NOT a bad daughter...she is the not okay mother (too much therapy now... can't say evil or bad...) shows how far she has to go by calling you bad...black and white thinking is helpful for no one (esp 9 mth pg daughter!!)

allyxx