"But we took you to stately homes"... a thread for adult children of abusive families

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This thread is a follow up to "My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry" because we reached the end of the thread life.

I originally posted on that thread to say that my mother had blamed me for something that was in fact her fault, called me a liar, got the rest of the family to gang up on me and then blamed me for splitting up the family.

It generated a huge amount of interest from a number of women who, like me, had grown up in an abusive, or "toxic" family environment where we had been the scapegoat or the dustbin for our parents to dump their own unresolved difficulties. My mother, like all our mothers, has refused to apologise for what she has done and many of us have cut ties with our families in order to recover our lost selves and self-esteem.

Been sent over here: here

Do I need to read all 32 pages to understand what is going on and fit in? May take me a while.

No NAb- Welcome, you have toxic parents so do we, I dont think it matters if you were brought up with them or not.

The impact they will have had and continue to have on your life I would imagine will be the same.

So, you may feel guilt a lot, anger alot, have problems setting boundaries, self esteem, confidence.

May help also if you could tell us a bit more about your life and how they are interfering now? Its quite cathartic to write this stuff down so dont worry how long the posts are, just go for it!

Earlybird and Sabaidii, I'll have to do a different post for my thoughts on parents passing on. It is difficult and my insights are new to me and so composing my thoughts is proving to be a challenge-I'm not that great at communications anyway. I know you are hurting more than perhaps you have ever hurt before (unless you've lost one of your own children) so it may be best to wait a bit for in-depth analysis -or rather -opinions.

Sakura- I hope your travels go safely and smoothly. Have you thought about having other 'goals' or things you'd like to do while there that are not tied up with family? I'm suggesting something simple like photographing the landscape or buying regional treats that can't be had where you live now. That way you can have a little task to distract yourself if need be and you can come away feeling that you did do something that you wanted to do.

Smithfield-are you looking forward to not being pg anymore? I know I am. Even though I don't have anything to complain about in my pg, it is not my favorite state to be in.

Danae- that is soooo good! I am happy for you- that is a real milestone. I think the rest of the healing journey will feel right-though be prepared that it won't necessarily be painless. I have experienced a tendency or pressure (from within myself) to fall back into the brainwashed training simply from relaxing a bit-just be aware of it and you can easily catch yourself. It is more verification/ validation of everything that has gone on. But realize that from here on out the healing is FOR YOU, not being bound up in battling the oppressors any more. The significant battles are over-there may be the trash distractions from them-they will test you- but you know (in your heart and mind) that you are now beyond that.
Is there a Championship Blue Ribbon Trophy for Danae? Absolutely!

Pages- Effectively, Middle Sister isn't speaking to me. A true win-win situation, lol: a power play for her and relief for me!

Re-cap briefly- on my birthday she called, told me she hadn't sent my gift yet and asked me what I wanted-I said I'm 46 and don't need a gift anymore, 'just send a card'. She insisted 'But of course you need a gift'-no I don't: I am 46 years old {ah-hmm, not 12 }.

So a few (10?) days later she calls again. And gives me a 'quiz' - that is what it felt like.

1. She wasn't sure, but thought she'd ask to make sure, Did I want her to throw me a Baby Shower? No, thanks. (And we'd been over that ages ago. )

2. What else did I want her to buy for the baby? Nothing, you already bought a stroller (another story) and a couple of outfits (she gave me at Xmas); that's enough.

3. She has not shopped for my birthday gift yet, what did I want her to get me? (I thought I was rather clear on my birthday....; so I stick with my response) Nothing-I am 46 and don't need a birthday gift.

So she says-{after all the work she has done to set this up }- she delivers my punishment: "Well, I'm not shopping for you until you tell me what you want." (((( Ah, the power play )))) I casually respond with, 'well, I really don't need anything and just can't think of anything that I want'.

It is laughable, because I know she wouldn't get me what I asked for anyway-a la Christmas gift transference from a specific DVD to a DVD rental contract gift.

I change the subject to her dear dog and get to hear about his bowel movements for 20 min.

So there it is. I am not going to call her, until the birth-then DH can tell her. Thought about it-superficial brief 'check in' call, but no. I'm busy getting ready for my baby (which she has referred to as 'a new project'-I did respond in the moment: No, MS, this is my third-nothing new- and the baby is a person- not a "project".)
And she is waiting for me to tell her what I want from her, which is nothing, so she'll have a wait then.

Sorry this is so long, but with DH out of town ...

Hi NAB3
I am sorry for you for all the pain you have been through.
I have found important help here -in the light of a 'support group'= validation and verification for feelings that I couldn't quite put into words.

Although not really necessary, reading the thread will help, to have a more firm foundation that 'you are not alone', which is comforting. You may come across someone whose story mirrors yours and you can benefit from how that person dealt with it.

Also try your best to read the books mentioned-that will offer an education of what is going on-the circumstances created, manipulations, micro-managing, what has happened was actually abuse (I didn't realize I had suffered abuse, but I did) etc. Just knowing about it helps to not feel overwhelmed by frustration or the sensation of being in the dark-even though it is, or can be, a very dark subject.

Deep self reflection can be very painful, so I suggest take your time, think, and give yourself credit for wanting to face the truth-which includes the truth of what you feel, without regard to what others think you should feel.

I will read through properly once I have peace and quiet to do so but I am probably better at answering questions as otherwise I might end up writing my life story from childhood to 18!

I don't feel guilty about anything to do with my parents. Should I feel guilty about that?

My mum got pregnant having told my dad she was on the pill. Someone told her if I had been a boy my dad might have bothered and stuck around so she has never forgiven me for being a girl. Clearly my fault for being the wrong gender.

I was meant to be adopted at 6 weeks but she changed her mind the day before it was meant to be finalised.

If I was happy in foster/children's home she caused trouble so I had to be moved. If I was miserable there she didn't come near.

More of the same for years and years.

She found out 2-3 years ago that I had 2 children and was pregnant with another. My Nan told her on her death bed and then my MIL filled her in with the name and sex of the new baby. She is now writing bitchy letters saying she has rights to her Grand children.

I will never forgive my MIL for telling her about the new baby (and then keeping it from us that she knew and we found out once we had a solicitor involved and MIL finally confessed as the evidence was in front of her.) Mother to mother she excused it by.

That enough to be going on with? but a wry one.

BTW Everything she did was for me and I have spent ages thinking about what she could possibly mean!

Nab- God sorry I am what a horrible woman.

Did your MIL know what kind of woman your mother was when she gave her the information? Im guessing sshe did hence your .

This must be incredibly stressful for you. Given her track record I doubt she would have any entitlement to her grandchildren though?
Please tell me this has not been progressing with any success legally?

'Everything she did was for me '

Spoken like a true narcissist. Yes that's My mums favourite catchphrase too.

Yep, my MIL knew I didn't want anything to do with my BM and she did it as it was one mother to another.

We had a solicitor who was meant to be helping us and said we could have her arrested if she contacted me (it is via inlaws as she has their address/phone number, not mine) but then the solicitor left.

Nab - Its funny but many of us on here seem to have run from our own toxic mothers straight into the arms of a toxic MIL!

Dont think its mere coincidence either.

Would you consider cutting contact with your MIL over this? Fact is if you did cut contact with MIL, your own mother would not be able to get to you, as currently she is doing so through her.

BUT, how does you dh deal with all of this? Is he supportive, totally 100% on your side with it?

My husband is truly truly amazing and is 100% with me. He is seriously pissed off with his mother about this but what can he do? I want my kids to have grand parents as they will only have that one set but if MIL does anything else that is it. She won't lie at all - not even for the good of me and the kids but to me she lied by inadmission about not telling us she had told my mother about the kids when we said do not tell her the names.

I had been with my DH for 6 months before I met his mum.

Nab- I guess then the only other route, If you cant face cutting off MIL, would be to bin the letters (or better still aske MIL to bin them) So you are not affected by what she writes.

You could employ another solicitor, but I cant help thinking this just draws you back into her world. But I do think a restraining order would perhaps be an option?

It would be interesting to see how your MIL would react to your requesting she bins the letters unopened . Dont you think?

The letters are sent to MIL's address but addressed to me. They usually give them secretly to my DH as they did on my son's birthday. Spoilt the whole party as I went looking for DH and saw him reading it. We have kept the letters for evidence should we ever need them.

Sorry if it seems that I might be hijacking this thread for a moment but I didn't want to start another thread about 'Mothers' as there seems to be quite a few at the moment.

Something rang true that Smithfield has said about running from a toxic mother to a toxic MIL. I have done just this, my MIL hates me with a passion. As for my mother,well, I'm 28 years old and am just trying to come to terms with the fact that yes I had a pretty crap childhood and no I'm never going to have a good relationship with my mother.

Growing up I honestly thought that my friends relationships with their mum's were wierd, as they got on with and seemed to have friendly, affectionate relationships with their mums. Obviously now I realise that I was the wierd one. I never had any affection from my mother,she never told me she loved me, however she used to tell my younger brother all the time (he's 11 years younger than me and has a different father). I would never get any praise unless I was the best at something.

If she does me a favour I have to be eternally grateful to her. After my 1st dh ran off with another woman my mum and step dad kindly paid for me and dc's (then 4 and 18m) to go on holiday with them to Cornwall. This ended in disaster because one night (she was very drunk, which is a regular occurance) me and step dad were talking about a book we'd both read,she didn't like this and kicked off. We each took our turn to be verbally abused by my mother and when it was my turn I was called a bitch, a cow, I didn't deserve anything I had (my ex husband had left me with nothing and I was living on benefits and no money to spare), that I was an awful mother and the list goes on. Me and dc's returned home early from that holiday. No apology was made.

She makes things up about me. She once told my ex mil that I was gone in the head and when mil said "she seem's alright to me", my mother proceeded to try and convince mil that I was just putting on an act for her.

We fell out this Christmas and when I do see her now sometimes she may grunt a hello yet when she's pissed she'll quite happily phone me as if everythings fine and go on about the same old crap over and over again.

Everything is always about my mother and how she feels. She can't bear anyone else to be happy and puts a negative on everything I do.
She's like a Jekyll and Hyde character, I have people always saying to me "isn't your mum lovely", I just smile and say "hmmm" but inside I'm screaming "yes she's nice to you, why can't she be nice to me?". I find it so hurtful to watch how nice and lovely and affectionate she is with other people, just not with me.

TBH I am starting to wonder if in some small way I am actually quite lucky to have never lived with my mother. The sad thing is I wanted my/any mum the other day when I had the worst headache.

My mother is a fucking bitch and I would love 5 minutes in a room with her. (sorry for foul language. This is quite cathartic as never said some of this stuff before - apart from to DH)

I once told her I would never forgive her for giving me up and my social worker really told me off for it.

NAB there is nothing at all wrong with disliking your mother. As the saying goes you can choose your friends but not your family, but I think you can choose your family. Your mother chose to give you up and you are perfectly entitled to choose to have nothing to do with her.

Mampam- For many of us we have found the only way to deal with this kind of mother is to cut them out of our lives. Even if on a temporary basis.

This may seem extreme and I need to point out this isnt a form of punishment for them, but more a breather for us to begin to heal from what they have put us through.

Would this be an option you would consider?

Nab- 'The sad thing is I wanted my/any mum the other day when I had the worst headache'

We have all talked on here about the sadness of not having a proper mother/ daughter relationship. I read once that we only get one shot at unconditional love. If we didnt get it from our mothers then as babies, that's it.
So some of us go through life trying to get it elsewhere. Then you reach a point, that's it game over. Never had it never will have it, end of. And that is so sad, we have to mourn that loss. Because that's what it is a loss.

Glad you are finding it cathartic.

That's what this thread is for. Its a safe place to voice how you are feeling.

I think your anger is perfectly normal, and trust me it is far better and healthier to be in touch with that anger and direct it to the correct source.

Otherwise it just ends up being projected on to Dh's, or worse onto our dc or even onto ourselves....depression.

I do have depression. I think I have had it for years but only was dx when I had my first son and it was picked up as PND.

I have real difficulties being a mum and have posted many times

For example, when my son was upstairs while we all had dinner I hated it as I know what it is like to have the whole family going to eat and me not. My foster family weren't great at letting me eat and I have food issues now. I kind of put my feelings on to my children as in I imagine they are feeling what I felt as a child in certain situations but I am sure they can't be as they are not me and aren't having my kind of childhood. It is hard at times.

Yes- I know where you are coming from with this. I have had depression, I think from my teens.

AND like 'you' only had it picked up after ds.
And yes I relate to what you are saying about difficulties being a mum. Many of us write on here about our fears about being good mothers.

But you musn't be hard on yourself because 'you' have one thing that our mothers never 'had' and probably never 'will' have and that is the gift of insight.

I also wanted to say to you NAB that regardless of the fact she didnt bring you up physically, she still has played a major role in your life. She has continued to manipulate you (albeit from a distance). She has never let you rest or given you reprieve. So dont think for one minute your feelings are in any way less valid because she wasnt physically by your side.

She has always been there with you emotionally and mentally and by her own devices. And not in a positive way.

Smithfield I have come to the conclusion that I certainly need a breather from my mother but I haven't decided whether it's just for a certain amount of time or forever. Is it ok for me to decide at a later date? I have got my own life and my own problems and I do not need her to be burdening me with her problems all the time. Its just an extra thing to have to cope with and right now and I do not need it.

I cannot cut her totally out of my life for various reasons but I have already taken steps to cut down the contact I do have with her to a minimum. I do not answer the phone in the evenings, which is when the drunken phone calls occur and as she usually looks after dc's during school holidays (which I have to be eternally grateful for and she takes great pleasure in letting the whole world know how wonderful she is for having the kids for me whilst I'm at work), I have made alternative childcare arrangements.

NAB I know what you mean about putting your feelings on to your children as I try and give them as much affection as I can, tell them I love them continually but so much so that sometimes I feel I am in danger of smothering them with too much love. I go out of my way to give them everything I never had from my mother.

Welcome Nab and Mampam - you had toxic mothers. I have since christmas been reading all the recommended books and have found them incredibly helpful in giving me an insight to my toxic parents. The tricky bit is actually facing the emotions that it brings up, fine when they are out of my hair but any contact occurs.

Mampam - your story about the book in Cornwall reminded me that a couple of years ago we were playing scrabble with my parents. My husband won, I came second and my mum came last. My mum had a barely disguised paddy and we all pretended (incredibly my dad) that this was acceptable behaviour from a woman in her 60's How could her own daughter let alone her uneducated son in law beat her at "her game".

mampam- A breather is more than ok.

It is what i am labelling my own contact with 'my' mother atm.
It is currently what I need (whilst pg) to protect myself. But whilst having this 'break' from her (only about 3 months now) I have had so much clarity about my relationship with her.

You said in your post;

I have people always saying to me "isn't your mum lovely", I just smile and say "hmmm" but inside I'm screaming "yes she's nice to you, why can't she be nice to me?"

This is classic narcisstic behaviour, and I know where you are coming from because I got this a lot too.

Like... 'Oh but she's so much fun!'.

Really? is getting pissed and ruining your dd's party by outragiously flirting with her ex (uhm in front of my father) fun?

But you see it 'is' all about them. Never about you. Like they are only capable of seeing us in 2d, and certainly not as seperate people with seperate identities.

Also, dont be suprised if...whilst you are in avoiding mother mode.....she begins to step up her intensity and wanting to be with you.

My mother even stooped to feigning illness recently in order to bring me back into line!
You may well need to keep writing on here for support with that.

Mampam, welcome!

Jekyll and Hyde, try this website she sounds as if she may have Borderline Personality disorder.

Hi Nab, seen you around of course you can come on here, as Smithfield said, she still had an impact and still has. She does sound a narcarssist/borderline?

Re personality disorders

Low functioning - you need to be cared for as you cannot operate in society
High functioning - can function in society.

Unfortuately/fortunately most of our parents fall into the high functioning so you do get people saying how lovely they are...because they don't live with them and see the mood swings! Personality disorders are very common, chances are we all have PD traits but we do also have insight to balance it out...I think that is the difference ie we can acknowledge and apologise. People can also have a mix of disorders, my mother is borderline/narcissist and my sister a true narcissist. I suspect my father is borderline.

You in no way have to do anything you don't want to do on this thread (bar abuse people!) if you don't want to break contact, don't its your choice. And we all know how hard it is to take that step. Just the fact you are on this thread though is a huge step for you both/and anyone else to take

And btw, grandparents in the UK have no rights of access to grandchildren. But its good to keep the letters, maybe just don't open them Nab.

TMSB, I love the way you talk to ms now!! Sat here laughing at your 'cheek' not to take the bait!

Smithfield, glad your doing so well a real success story of just 'having a breather'! You seem so chilled...so lovely to hear!

Danae, I cannot believe your the same person as even late last year...you haven't half moved on! Something twigged with you? What made you just switch off from your mother? Was it anything in particular? I ask because I keep having those 'moments' where suddenly a light switches on.

Sakura, they both sound bpd, just by the mood swings and I think there is bound to be some npd too. What a catch 22 to put a child in, be abusive and violent if they want to express their feelings? But then cry on your shoulder...I'm sat here feeling deeply disturbed by that, let alone what you felt. My mother and sister put my dad into the dark too, I saw him as an ally until I separated him from them and saw he was just the same. Except for me the pain was greater as I saw him as my protector. Whereas defending myself against my mother and sisters abuse was second nature. Anyway, hope your trip back here goes okay. Will you be offline the whole time?

Pages, how about you and brother not opening things from her? Works for me . After your last confrontation there is nothing more to be said. If she comes round, she does, but I don't think more input from you and your brother will change her mind. Flogging a dead horse springs to mind. What does opening her mail achieve? Does it change anything? She knows you want an apology, over a year later, still waiting! Perhaps just tell your brother what you intend to do and why, then leave him to make up his mind. He sounds like he still wants just 'one more time' to get that apology, or is he wanting it on your behalf?

take care allxx