The silent treatment runs in my family. They are like haughty toddlers.

[AnFiadhRua]

So sick of it, and dreading Christmas. It's weird how rife it is, clicked on two threads and two people are being given the silent treatment by their partners.

My mother used to give me the silent treatment the moment I failed to endorse her rosy perception of herself. My father holds her coat in this quite happily, her willing foot soldier. My brother threw me under a bus for trying to be heard. They all talk about me but not to me.

The narrative in my family of origin is that I am sensitive, emotional, that I ....shout

And yet, my mother, having orchestrated a smear campaign that has reached cousins via my aunts, now wants ''a happy Christmas''.

She wants me to play the part of Daughter. Summonsed back to play the part of daughter but still, just to be clear, STILL denied any voice, any communication. She told me that my father and her decided not to throw accusations around. What I call a conversation, she calls '''throwing accusations around''.

If you try to connect with my mother, she literally gets angry.

But if I'm to go back to heel for Christmas, not sure what I'll be invited to under sufferance yet, but the narrative will be that they're saints overlooking my ''behaviour'' (ie, me raising my voice trying to make my point after they'd decided between them that there would be NO conversation with me about the hurt I told them they caused me, but not telling me that this was decided, and yet, when I said that they were stonewalling me, I was told ''no we're not''.)

I'm single and that's a problem only in that they don't respect me on my own. If I had a partner in my corner they would have acknowledged that they hurt me. But they have no respect for me. They own me.

I must respect their right to hurt me and stone wall me. But.............. I'm summonsed at Christmas. Even though, whatever distorted martyred accounts of our falling out my mother has given to my aunts, they didn't respond to a simple text I sent to thank them for something they sent to my daughter.

Anybody else feel like their family has the emotional intelligence of a bunch of toddlers? But worse, haughty toddlers who have zero self-awareness but act appalled by my ''behaviour''.

If I cut them off, I'll be the worst in the world and it'll be half way around Ireland what an ingrate I am after all they did for me. The 8 aunts will tell the 32 cousins who'll tell their spouses and they all believe it.

Fiadh - are you me?! Also 50ish, Irish and with two dysfunctional parents (and flying monkey sibling). They've flounced off five years ago so we are now no contact. Life is so much easier but I am sad that we could not be a happier family.

As for Christmas - avoid if you don't feel up to it. Covid, rescuing orphaned hedgehogs whatever...

OP, I understand and feel for your situation. I come from a very similar family where the silent treatment was alternated with verbal/physical abuse. Another favorite of my toxic family was putting each other down and talking behind each other's back.

But now that you're an adult, you don't have to accept this anymore. You can cut them off and be free. You don't have to allow anyone to mistreat you, even if they're your parents or siblings. Just because you're related to people doesn't mean you have to subject yourself to this treatment. Family shouldn't treat family like that.

If you cut them all off and they tell everyone else, so what? What will really happen to you? Change your number, block their emails and be free from abuse and mistreatment. When you come from such a toxic family, it's really hard to find the strength to break away. But it can be done and who cares what they say or think? You don't have to answer the phone for them or engage in any conversation. Also look into therapy so that you feel comfortable setting strong boundaries/cutting them off.

The best thing I did was cut my family off. My parents are deceased but all the aunts, uncles, cousins, everyone are cut out my life and I feel great. I have my husband, my kids, and my friends/their family so I have all I need.

Christmas is worse because you see all these adverts, and hear friends and work colleagues describe their lovely extended family christmases. And I would love that to be my life.

Livelovebehappy - I feel this too. In fact the Christmas we all mostly had in 2020 was the usual Christmas for me - no extended family at all.

@HalfHope

Fiadh - are you me?! Also 50ish, Irish and with two dysfunctional parents (and flying monkey sibling). They've flounced off five years ago so we are now no contact. Life is so much easier but I am sad that we could not be a happier family.

As for Christmas - avoid if you don't feel up to it. Covid, rescuing orphaned hedgehogs whatever...

@HalfHope it's so common, for everybody who has two healthy happy self-aware emotionally intelligent parents, there's another person who has an abusive parent and or their co-dependent foot soldier. Happy Family of Origin - free Christmas !

I'm learning to live with that sadness. It's a tough one. The therapy has helped a lot though. I was a basket case this time last year and now I am doing ok.

As somebody upthread said, it's not a brilliant feeling to know that your extended family has distorted misinformation about you that paints you in a really bad light from your own mother but I can live with it. I can. I do.

@Crumblinginside

Op have these Also in Ireland and in a very difficult situation with my family who have always blamed me for their dysfunctional life. I know I am a good person.

Thank you! have some back, and wine

Defensive people who cannot sit with an uncomfortable thought for a moment project all their low self-esteem crap on to good people who know they're not perfect but who're working on it. That's my observation.

I feel for you. Please bear in mind the idyllic images promoted everywhere for Christmas are there to make people spend, spend, spend and that most families have their own toxicity, to some extent!
You can pour orange juice on a LFT to get a false positive!
Why not love bomb them from a distance, send gifts and cards, do all the “right things”, on paper, that might please a narcissist who cares about the outward stuff? but avow to never let any of them in to any extent again? Tick all the boxes, say all the right things, but don’t be able to make most family do’s, always having a legitimate excuse. No more of being the punchbag. focus on protecting yourself, glad you have had therapy and we all sympathise massively.

Google “grey rock”.
If I was you, I’d move. Move to Norfolk? Live a lovely life. Too far to be dragged into everything.

I know how it feels to nearly have that family, yet to be isolated, ignored, shoved to the side and expected to be all smiles when they DO decide to grace you with their attention. Years ago, my DS stated that "...our friends are more like our family than our family is!" . He was only 4 at the time but he was right. Out of the mouths of babes, eh?
I'm married now, been with DH for years before marrying and his family are also sort of ignorers, but very quick to hammer him when they want him to do something for them. I said to him that they treat him like an unpaid servant. His parents ignore his birthdays but when they click their fingers, he's supposed to jump immeadiately! As for DS and myself, we may as well just be aquaintances...we ARE just aquaintances! That suits me as I'm so disgusted with the way they have treated DH over the years!
For me anyway, the legend of the close Irish family may as well be a myth! Other people have it but not my DH, DS nor myself. Luckily DH and myself have each other and DS has loads of friends, with a core group of solid mates who he's known since he was small and that's a comfort to me!
I myself have only one close friend and she lives in England, so I miss the friendship of women; the cups of tea and long talks about everything from the deepest, most personal stuff to the trivial! We talk over the net but I miss her physical presence if you get what I mean! If you have at least one close, genuine friend, it can go a long way to fill the gap left by an uncaring or toxic family!

@IncompleteSenten

"If I cut them off, I'll be the worst in the world and it'll be half way around Ireland what an ingrate I am after all they did for me. The 8 aunts will tell the 32 cousins who'll tell their spouses and they all believe it"

And?
What happens to you because of that that's so scary ?

That’s my parents

I’m the scapegoat and one day I just snapped

Not spoken to any of them since

Let them think what they like-the people who love me don’t believe it and the ones that do believe it don’t bloody matter-I often say ‘they don’t pay my rent and bills-so they don’t matter’

I’ve had people chase me down the street before now,screaming me that I’m the selfish one

The people who love me have never chased me anywhere-that’s the difference

It does take a lot of acceptance to not care what they think

Really working on it!. I'm getting there. I cared so much 18 months ago that it did control my decisions. Now, it wouldn't shape any of my decisions but there'd be a bit of residual sadness about it.

Rationally I know that these aunts who were so willingly and so quickly drafted in to also give me the silent treatment (when my FOO are all already giving me the silent treatment), rationally, I know that that is so emotionally immature and so lacking in any wisdom that if they'd do that, then they're not people I should work hard to keep in my life, even in the peripheral way they're in my life.

But there's still that inner child crying ''why me, why am I the one excluded when all I did was tell my mother she hurt me''

@Stinkyslippers I do think there must be some peace in making that decision. Even if there's sadness. To decide, right, I've made the effort to be heard one last time and that is it.

Did you find that you were experiencing a lot of anxiety before you made the decision, and then it eased?

And yet, my mother, having orchestrated a smear campaign that has reached cousins via my aunts, now wants ''a happy Christmas''.

Wish them well with their Happy Christmas, & leave them to get on with it while you enjoy yours. Without them.

If I cut them off, I'll be the worst in the world and it'll be half way around Ireland what an ingrate I am after all they did for me. The 8 aunts will tell the 32 cousins who'll tell their spouses and they all believe it.

Hey come on now. They're already calling you the worst in the world & telling 32 cousins. I saw it on the 6pm news last night, you desperate ingrate

There is nothing you can do, nothing you can say, to change your haughty toddlers (LOVE this & nicking it btw, ta).
So your best bet is to stop trying, do what you want & let them crack on with being dysfunctional arseholes.

I've picked up on a few things about your mother elsethread my dear OP. The only sensible course of action is to drop the rope. I've been NC with 2 family members for 4 years now, & my mental health has never been more robust.

Seriously - fuck 'em.
And feel free to pm me if you want to swap outrageous stories & commiserations

[quote AnFiadhRua]@Stinkyslippers I do think there must be some peace in making that decision. Even if there's sadness. To decide, right, I've made the effort to be heard one last time and that is it.

Did you find that you were experiencing a lot of anxiety before you made the decision, and then it eased?[/quote]
Yes-I never wanted to wake up in the morning and would cry myself to sleep on a night
It’s hell-I’ve had to grieve for a woman who never existed (and again grieve for family)
I’d have panic attacks at least once a week when I was in contact with them
I just snapped one day-she was giving me shit over a £30 phone bill while kissing my (drug addict) brothers arse (I did owe her the £30-she’s had thousands out of me-but my money was paying for my brothers habit)
The relief when I put the phone down on her was just out of this world-a dark cloud just lifted
I was very lucky-I have amazing friends and now a good partner who lift me up every single day-I’ve never had therapy
It hurts like hell-everything is set up in life around family-mothers day,Christmas,Father’s Day,birthdays etc but I’d rather be alone than put up with family dragging me down
I have my family in the form of slightly bonkers,much loving friends,my partner,my children and my partners mum (we lost his dad in march)
We’re not a perfect ‘family’ but we all love and respect each other-that’s enough

I was at work the other day and we got talking about families-I pointed out that mine will tell you I’m a drug addict,an unpaid sex worker,my partner is my pimp (bit pointless if I’m unpaid) and that I have mental issues-oh and I abuse children
I was met by laughter-not one person believed it-others do,but to be honest I really don’t care-they don’t matter

@2Gen

I know how it feels to nearly have that family, yet to be isolated, ignored, shoved to the side and expected to be all smiles when they DO decide to grace you with their attention. Years ago, my DS stated that "...our friends are more like our family than our family is!" . He was only 4 at the time but he was right. Out of the mouths of babes, eh? I'm married now, been with DH for years before marrying and his family are also sort of ignorers, but very quick to hammer him when they want him to do something for them. I said to him that they treat him like an unpaid servant. His parents ignore his birthdays but when they click their fingers, he's supposed to jump immeadiately! As for DS and myself, we may as well just be aquaintances...we ARE just aquaintances! That suits me as I'm so disgusted with the way they have treated DH over the years! For me anyway, the legend of the close Irish family may as well be a myth! Other people have it but not my DH, DS nor myself. Luckily DH and myself have each other and DS has loads of friends, with a core group of solid mates who he's known since he was small and that's a comfort to me! I myself have only one close friend and she lives in England, so I miss the friendship of women; the cups of tea and long talks about everything from the deepest, most personal stuff to the trivial! We talk over the net but I miss her physical presence if you get what I mean! If you have at least one close, genuine friend, it can go a long way to fill the gap left by an uncaring or toxic family!

Interesting that your husband's family also treat him like a second class citizen.

The only emotionally supportive relationship I ever had really was with a man who was an outcast in his own family too so we got each other. He never said ''ah you only have one mother!''

His mother had him before she met his ''dad'' and then there were three more kids. He never asked to go to university because he knew his step father would be funding it. He felt grateful for just food and shelter! so he didn't feel entitled to go to university. whereas his younger siblings all grew up with the knowledge that the money would be found for whatever they decided to do. He was very conscious of that dynamic but his younger three siblings poo pooed his experience. I believed him though. I know that you can grow up in the same house but have a different childhood.

One of my best friends is English. We met in England though and she managed to do what I never managed to do, date a daycent shtickk of an irish man and end up getting married

i need to work on figuring out my tribe.

Oddly-my whole adult life I had depression
Tablets every fucking day since I was 14
I cut contact aged 34-weaned myself off them by the time I was almost 36 and I have had bad days (who doesn’t?)
But I’ve not had full blown depression since-coincidence?
I think not-20 years of tablets-and not one since I cut toxic out

@AnFiadhRua

If I'm invited for Christmas I will have to give a response that is 'nice' enough not to give her martyred account of our falling out fuel. But that's really impossible come to think of it. No matter how nicely I put it, her narrative is going to be all about my grudge, my accusations... nothing about how they ganged up on me and stonewalled me for most of 2020 and it's still going on.

My dear, I hope you won't take this amiss, or feel that I'm trying to dictate to you (enough controllers in your life already) but I'd love to see you find a way to make a form of peace with the FACT that they will never see your point of view.

If you has 1000 years & the skills of Shakespeare, you would still never find a set of words that will convince them that you have any validity other than the Scapegoat role they have assigned to you.

They will never admit wrongdoing.
They are incapable of being wrong - yes? Because that's your job.
That's what you are for.

They are also incapable of being reasonable.
But because you are reasonable, you find this almost impossible to believe, & make yourself responsible for being the person who finally gets through to them.
You won't get through.
Villains are always heroes in their own narratives. Hitler thought he was doing the world a service. Wife-beaters think that their wife "made them do it".

Some of the worst damage from this kind of family dysfunction is how it locks the reasonable party - usually the scapegoat - into a pattern of trying to prove their own worth, have their point seen, be validated, acknowledged ... but sadly, no matter how honourable & rational the intent, all it does is tie the scapegoat further & further into the dynamic.

Your family want drama for Christmas. Don't give it to them. It's a price you don't want to pay, for a bill you didn't rack up.

Have you ever been able to access therapy, to help deal with the aftermath of your horrible relatives?

Ye Dogs OP. Sorry, now read your update.

She doesnt know ive been seeing a therapist as she wouldnt think "oh that's responsible, working on your wounds" , she would see it as PROOF I am the crazy one that she put up with

Yup. Been there, got the stinking T shirt.

Although funnily enough, despite 2 episodes of psychosis following the appalling emotional & sexual abuse perpetrated by my own mother, no psychologist has been able to diagnose anything "wrong" with me, bar C-PTSD.

There's nothing wrong with you either @AnFiadhRua, & your own mental health, anxiety, stress, (& I bet you have the old "intrusive & unwelcome thoughts" too, no?), whatever ... will improve no end when you decide to cut these miserable relatives out of your life.

@Iguessyourestuckwithme

AnFiadhRua.

I went to therapy as I wanted to learn how to behave better as it was ruining my relationship with my mother. She explained that she couldn't teach me to behave better for someone as that was unethical and also as my mother scapegoated me, whatever I did would be wrong and all she could teach me was to create a healthy balance/distance
In fact she told me to not let my walls down with my mother.

I can't tell you how much I needed to hear a professional person tell me it wasn't my fault and that I was being gaslit and scapegoated . Still bloody hurt though!

Oh, HURRAH for a wise & decent therapist @Iguessyourestuckwithme.

Yes, it hurts to finally accept that there is nothing anybody, even our much-burdened selves, can do about individuals with Cluster-B personality disorders. But oh wow, it hurts less than constantly appeasing them & debasing ourselves. Well done for breaking free & keeping those walls up

To be blunt, they already think badly of you. If you go, they'll still think badly of you and you'll be miserable. I would politely decline, make a new email address for essential contact and change your phone number.

They have no power over you. You owe them nothing.

Someone recently said to me it was time to lower my expectations of my family. For years I’ve been wanting the happy accepting family, but only keep getting the same as you.

I chose to step away from my father and haven’t seen him in 5 years and life is much happier for it. I speak to my mum and siblings when I have to. I’m going home for Christmas, and choosing to let it wash over me until I can come back to my life.

Long term, does it matter what happens if you leave them behind? Their opinion of you is already bad, so how can it possibly be worse for you? You’ll be walking away into your own life where you can make better and more meaningful connections that are right for you.

@Unsureschool

To be blunt, they already think badly of you. If you go, they'll still think badly of you and you'll be miserable. I would politely decline, make a new email address for essential contact and change your phone number.

They have no power over you. You owe them nothing.

This is true. They already think badly of me and i still feel / know I did nothing but tell them they hurt me. I have clear sightedness. They cannot gaslight me now, but that old dynamic where I play the part of daughter, whats in that for me?

I need to keep asking myself that.

I need to keep asking myself that.

Do, OP.
These trauma bonds in a dysfunctional family run deep. Keep reminding yourself. Another useful one is "these are just some unpleasant people who I used to know".

And! - rememeber how far you have come in - what did you say, 18 months? How different, more stable more content you feel. That's a massive achievement, as is your clear sight.

Your clear sight is part of why they need to demonise you btw.
My fuckers advertise me as a "twisted fantasist" for having the temerity to make mention of the Family Skeleton a few years back. It's so much easier for them, & your lot, to chuck accusations around than deal with the unpleasant emotional state of knowing they have behaved terribly.

You are doing great, & you have no obligation, no reason, & no desire to attend the clusterfuck that will be your relatives' xmas day :)

I had parents like yours. Best advice I had was "step out of the ring". I still occasionally feel guilty, but mostly I just feel relieved. They've had 50 years of you - you don't owe them any more.

@AnFiadhRua, you are at the beginning of the process to disengage and become unemeshed with your 'family'. You still have a way to go. It's taken me over ten years to feel completely free of mine. You are grieving which is terribly painful in itself. You don't just wake up one day and feel done. There's lots of ups and downs, feelings of abandonment and rejection to deal with. Also the realisation that as the scapegoat you have always been alone and an orphan, the outsider.

There was also the lingering hope and desire that I could fix it, fix my DM. I tried to reorganise the boundaries by going LC to protect myself but she wasn't having any of it. Do as you're told or leave was the bottom line. I chose to leave.

And I have to say I am in the best place ever. I don't hate my family anymore, I am mostly indifferent, sometimes sorry for them but free as a bird. With therapeutic support I have become the person I was meant to be. That can be you. Keep going, you will get there

I understand the pull of Christmas at this time of year and it still feels weird not seeing 'family' but the further away I get, the more I see their malicious and callous ways. No thank you to that.

Stonking post, @Dacquoise