Relationships with seriously damaged people

[ella58]

Can anyone give any input on this?

My partner of three years has some quite severe emotional damage and trauma from the past, particularly PTSD. I really had no idea for the first two years and then it came out over time.

Can anyone give me any feedback on relationships like this? I know they are hard (experienced that) but I am torn between leaving and staying as these parts of him are sometimes really hard to cope with and he doesn't want to get counselling to get over them. He's terrified of facing the trauma and then unravelling completely.

As a couple of examples of struggles:

• He was abused before, and if I shout or get angry with him he gets into a real state and it takes days to calm him down. I am not an angry or scary person, this is just regular couple arguments but he reacts to them in a very big way.

• He is paranoid that the world is an unsafe place and people are going to hurt him, including me. Despite years of evidence I am safe, he defaults to self-defence in a problem which is counter productive.

• He is almost frozen emotionally in his 16 year old state when his first trauma happened, and his views on me, the present are often polluted by things which happened nearly 30 years ago

Things like this - it makes the relationship hard sometimes, and if I get upset or angry or have needs he finds hard to meet (he can be, like anyone else, worth having a row with from time to time), I then feel guilty for upsetting him by being upset.

He can't stand me being upset, so he insists in supporting or looking after me, after which he more or less has a mini breakdown because me being upset has caused him to have an avalanche of fear that I am going to leave him.

We are two people who love each other deeply, but who are not in a healthy, stable relationship because one of us is not healthy and stable inside themselves.

For anyone who's experienced PTSD or long term trauma, is there anything you can recommend to help aside from counselling?

He had a bad relapse lately due to a situation in the present which he found very triggering so it's been a very difficult year.

I have used diet, vitamins, supplements, exercise, mindfulness, aromatherapy, massage and all this has helped a lot. Things he refuses are:

counselling
meditation
yoga

As he feels afraid these things will unlock the trauma in some way and then he won't be able to cope.

I really do love him, but it's very hard.

If he won’t have counselling or face up to he won’t get over it basically. And he has to take responsibility for that. Do you have children?

Hmm tricky.

I am someone who absolutely hates shouting. I can't be near football crowds, any kind of raised voices makes me feel really sick.

I haven't been abused but this is so triggering. I know it's not helpful but if you are naturally a 'loud/shouter' then it seems like he'd be constantly upset but this? I would.

I can only be around my mum in small doses as she raises her voice when Trying to get her point Across.

My DH has never raised his voice in ten years we've been together.

I was in a relationship with a man suffering from severe MH issues, mainly driven by PTSD.

He was in denial for a long time. When he did eventually begin to confront his issues, he still refused to seek help. He was emotionally abusive and it destroyed me. We had a messy and very damaging break up. I am over him as a person, but will never get over the way he treated me.

Rock and a hard place. I'm sorry you're going through this

I am clouded by my experience of being with someone who had a neglectful and dysfunctional up ring so my advice to you is walk away.

My mental health is shot to pieces and his previous partner was hospitalised with mental ill health during the relationship, she left him after coming out of hospital.

His behaviour is emotionally abusive. The only saving grace, if you can call it that, is I don't believe his behaviour is intended to hurt me. He is limited by what he knows and how he adapted to survive.

But he appears unable or maybe unwilling to change or seek help and I cannot continue in the relationship for much longer. We don't have children and I'm the far higher earner so I am not affected by practicalities only emotions.

EMDR is supposed to be good for trauma triggers.

I think you need to insist that he attempts some kind of therapy, if you're going to stay together.

Do you have children?
Or do you want to have children together?

How often are you shouting and rowing? I struggle with shouting after an abusive childhood - it’s as if I’m waiting for the violence that always used to follow my parents shouting. But in over 10 years together, DP has only ever shouted at me once (and vice verse). If you’re regularly fighting, it sounds like there could be more issues in the relationship than just his mental health.

There is medication for PTSD. Has he thought about seeing a psychiatrist?

Other than that you do have to respect his triggers where you can. Since shouting is one, don’t shout.

I mean I have a trigger of being pressed against a wall...takes me right back to one of my rapes and I turn into a frenzied lashing and thrashing madwoman. My DH respects this trigger so we never do the kiss up against a wall type thing.

I’m not saying walk on eggshells for fear of upsetting him, just that you should both take time to identify the triggers and do work arounds.

My OH suffered with anxiety and depression - he would neither acknowledge it nor seek treatment. It was very stressful for me - and I guess for him. I think it is very hard s women do tend to recognise that if there is something amiss they need to take steps to fix it; whereas men deny anything that smacks of weakness.

We did stay together until he died last year. His problems were a cross that we both had to bear.

Another option OP are support groups where he can talk to other PTSD sufferers and not feel so alone, get tips on coping strategies and so on.
www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd-and-complex-ptsd/useful-contacts/

hi OP I recommend you and him both ready this book, so eye opening:
www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tVP1zc0TC9OMi-zKM82YPQSTC4oKU5RKEgtSVUoT8zJTi0CALrkC2A&q=cptsd+pete+walker&rlz=1C5CHFA_enGB945GB945&oq=cptsd&aqs=chrome.1.69i59j46i39j69i59j0i10i433l2j69i60l3.2385j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

It is highly recommended among a lot of sufferers and will help him with coping strategies but maybe also open him up to the idea of therapy although it does not push this if people aren't comfortable with it.

Also on Reddit there are some CPTSD subreddit forums which are really helpful.

sorry OP this is the right link to the book

www.amazon.co.uk/Complex-PTSD-Surviving-RECOVERING-CHILDHOOD-ebook/dp/B00HJBMDXK?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I think you also have to be careful yourself, maybe ask him to read the book or at least go to one therapy session, but if he is not prepared to help himself it might be time to walk away after setting a deadline or something. It's hard being in a relationship with someone like this (speaking from experience and I had to walk away).

OP he refuses to get the help he needs. Until he does he - and you - will be locked into abusive cycles where he lashes out.

I would leave.

My ex and myself both come from difficult childhoods. It has shaped who we both are. The difference is I faced my demons through extensive counselling, constant research and self awareness. I will forever be a work in progress.

My ex on the other hand has done no counselling, no researching and has absolutely no self awareness. He genuinely nearly destroyed me
as a person. Someome who was healthy inside and out would not have even contemplated marrying him, never mind stay with him for over a decade and have children with him.

It’s not your job to “fix” him OP. You cannot save him. He has to want to get help and heal and it doesn’t sound like he wants to. While I knew about my exes trauma from childhood, by the end I felt he used it as an excuse to be who he is and play the victim throughout his life as it seemed to work for him. I’m not saying this is what your DP is up to but you need to protect yourself and look after yourself first and foremost.

You've listed all the things YOU'VE tried....what has HE tried? What is his plan? I'm really sorry, OP, this sounds really hard for you but unfortunately you can't do this for him. If he isn't going to take responsibility for his own recovery then it's not going to go anywhere. Please don't think I am being harsh, I have been in your husbands position and it can only come from him unfortunately.

My DH was very much the same. Significant trauma, very obviously affecting him. The difference is that he was willing to work on it because he knew he had to - a few years before we met he'd ruined a long term relationship because he was emotionally volatile and unable to be a good partner.

Six months into our relationship he stopped hiding all the trauma as much, but was terrified he would push me away too, and he really didn't want that - so I said he needed proper therapy or I'd walk away because while I liked him a lot, I couldn't be with someone who wasn't willing to try and get better.

He got EMDR and has been in talk therapy on and off ever since, and it has changed his life for the better (and he's an incredible, supportive, emotionally intelligent partner - date a man who's had a lot of therapy, it's a revelation!). He's had bad bouts of depression and he is not fully healed - times where he is really stressed or has let the work he does on himself slip for a few months, those triggers are more easily triggered - but he's much more aware of it now and he always knows what he needs to do to get back on track.

All that to say - it's possible for him to get much better. It's possible for that process to actually make your relationship very good - DH is so willing to think about his feelings, able to analyse why he reacts the way he does about normal relationship things, and we've got amazing communication as a result.

But he needs to want to do that.

Trauma therapy is terrifying and I completely understand his fear of being retraumatised by the work he needs to do. But he won't get any better without it. It's short term pain for long term improvement.

I went with DH to his first therapy session (at his request). We talked about the work he needed to do in day to day life (deescalation when he felt triggered, etc) and I made myself a part of that. Speak to him and tell him you want him to be better, that you're willing to be in his corner while he does the work (if you are). But that if he won't do it, you need to think about yourself too.

You are in a codependent relationship. It's not a relationship between equals - it's one where you are the adult and he is the child.

You can't fix him; only he can do that. If he refuses therapy, he isn't prepared to do the work he needs to heal.

We are two people who love each other deeply, but who are not in a healthy, stable relationship because one of us is not healthy and stable inside themselves.

He womt get the help he needs. You will be stuck in this cycle. Your life will be so much more difficult. You couldnt bring children into this. Really, leaving is the beat thing for your health.

“Things he refuses are:

counselling
meditation
yoga

As he feels afraid these things will unlock the trauma in some way and then he won't be able to cope.”

The thing is he’s not really coping now. All those things are just under the surface and are continuing to have serious control over him precisely because he’s refusing to confront them. Until he does, you’re both just papering over cracks. Facing them may initially be more intense but it’s like lancing a boil on a massive scale - the increased short-term discomfort is worth it for the long-term gain. If he works with someone skilled in handling people with PTSD, that is his best chance of getting beyond this.

@ella58 I feel for you and I feel you! I am in a relationship with a beautiful man who is also very damaged due to a traumatic childhood and subsequent abusive relationships. We are also deeply in love. He also has paranoid episodes when triggered. But this is something he has suffered from since his 20s. He’s now in his 40s and have self medicated his whole life with a partying lifestyle and drugs. When we had been together only six months, he suffered another bad episode. We also went through a really bad time relationship wise and we almost split but now we are in a good place. But boy it was hard work!

The first thing I would say to you is you cannot fix him with love. I made the mistake of trying to fix his mental illness with love. It is not your responsibility. And I got so angry when it did not work and we got into a bad cycle. You cannot fix mental illness, whatever you do. My boyfriend is now on ADs (the start of this was rough too!) and having regular therapy. The one reason I stuck with him through all this is because he knew this was all him, none of this was my fault despite my relationship having triggered his trust issues. He knew he had to fix this and tried seriously for the first time in like 30 years. He stopped using any drugs and took his medication and therapy really seriously and he’s completely turned it round. Not saying there’s an easy road ahead of us but we are enjoying our relationship again. He’s also does yoga and meditation and writes a journal. And I learned to let go. Of the idea that I can fix him. Only he can fix himself. That I am at peace with whatever happens with us as long as he gets better as I love him so much.

Please don’t think you can do all these things to make him better, you can’t. It’s all up to him. But I know how hard it is to stand on the side powerless to do anything to help. But you just can’t.

All responses really appreciated and helpful. It may be also helpful for me to give more detail.

He has never been abusive to me. He is very kind and gentle. We have our own kids who are both 18 from previous marriages but none together.

This is how things happened in a bit more detail.

He had major trauma occurred at age 16 within the family and was hospitalised for a year on and off for mental health support after it caused a breakdown for him. I am the only person on earth who knows that about him.

At his lowest ebb and only 17, he got into a toxic relationship and she was much older and also a bit abusive by the sound of it. Things like refusing to let him go out alone, trying to stab him on one occasion, using their child as leverage and blackmail.

He managed to get away from that and studied and worked hard and became a doctor, but then got involved in another relationship. This time it was seriously abusive. Hitting him, threats, coercion, emotional abuse, blackmail and he formed some kind of stockholm syndrome or cult-like sense of difficulty leaving this woman who had completely isolated him from everyone else. He finally left her the police had to get involved.

All all these people convinced him their abuse was his fault, which he still believes to be true. He came away feeling the world was extremely unsafe and very much permanently living in survival mode.

In the first two years I knew nothing about this. I am very tuned in emotionally with things and thought maybe he'd been hurt and was avoidant in his attachments, but definitely didn't see signs of major trauma as he was good at covering it and never told me. Like @scarpa he thought this would push me away and didn't want to risk it.

He was always loving, kind, reliable and we fell in love and got on great. We argued very, very rarely then and it was usually just a little tiff with no shouting or unkind words and it never lasted more than a few minutes.

Then 18 months ago the very abusive ex reared her head back into his life and began to threaten him. For example, she told him she would tell the medical board that he had assaulted her to get him to lose his job if he didn't meet her for a "closure" chat. Then she began more or less stalking and harassing me and it was pretty scary.

This went on for a few weeks and then he had a mini breakdown during which he told me the whole story. He was in his breakdown for about 6 months and it was pretty bad. Lost a lot of weight, was in a very bad way. It was a bit like the floodgates opened and he told me everything and said he was amazed I still loved him now I knew his past, which he thought was all his fault. I told him it wasn't his fault and asked him to go to counselling then, and he did for about 8 weeks, and then his counsellor got long covid and disappeared for a few months and by the time she came back he had clammed up and no longer wanted to talk.

I've not acted as his therapist (I don't think!) but I have done everything I can to help and support him. He's now functioning at about 60%, and we argue, which we never did before, because of the strain of it all and because, well, extremely depressed people can sometimes be snappy, mean, selfish and negative in a way that you can't comprehend unless you've lived with it.

I don't think I am a loud shouter, but me getting angry or upset in any way triggers him and he can start shaking. We have had to leave the cinema if the film gets violent. He has had night terrors. He flies into an absolutely massive panic over small things.

For example, I flippantly joked during a conversation about an awful day I was having that I was going to "shoot myself" and he raced home from work in terror that I was in danger, when it was obviously a flippant comment and I was completely fine.

He can also be paranoid, for example, now he has told me all his secrets, when we argue he is paranoid I am going to leave him and use the information I have to ruin his life - which is what his crazy ex threatens to do. No matter how many times I reassure him I would never harm him in any way, he just reacts to me as if I was her.

He is terrified of counselling, which he thinks might "unravel him" completely and then he will lose his job and end up alone because I will leave him and so on (?!) and he can't do anything like journaling or meditation for the same reason.

He is kind and loving to me and days or even weeks go by where we are normal and happy, but this is under the surface and I know he has to fix this in himself to be healthy and it's hard to watch such a beautiful person I love so much suffer like this.

EDMR sounds really interesting - can anyone tell me if you can have it without having counselling first?

He is also willing to read books, and he has read several on trauma, PTSD and also watched lots of YouTube videos on abuse and so on and he is slowly beginning to learn. He is so earnest and lovely and wants to be better but he's frightened.

It is also hard to live with, and as many people say, the refusal to go to counselling (at least for the time being) is very hard and frustrating. He gets overwhelmed and can't stand loud noises or crowds and he gets very tired.

From where we were six months ago is a vast improvement. He is loving to me, things are not awful. I just want to get a grip really of what I can do / need to do and the future. I sometimes feel lost a bit.

You can't fix him. Only he can fix him. There doesn't seem much space in this relationship for you.

You can’t fix him

You can consider whether he is robust to your style of joke and arguing style, or if it would be compassionate to change those. But only if you feel that is not a fundamental part of your personality.

Of course, I can change jokes, but it was never a problem before so I had no idea.

Arguing style, I don't know. I really don't shout loud, we are talking more "teacher in class" than Raging. He really is delicate and human being sometimes get angry.

I try very, very hard

@Clymene

You are in a codependent relationship. It's not a relationship between equals - it's one where you are the adult and he is the child.

You can't fix him; only he can do that. If he refuses therapy, he isn't prepared to do the work he needs to heal.

This OP.

Why have you so little value of your one life that you would sign up for this.

This is not a relationship between equals.

Do you wish to have children?

For goodness sake don't consider bringing innocent children into such a volatile situation where their lives will be destroyed by it.

You sound very young and naive that you would consider this as your future.

Long term love won't be long going out the wind as the grind and slog of you being mentally challenged by living with someone like this.

Should you stay I have no doubt you will bitterly regret it as you mature.

It takes a lot more than love for a long term relationship to be successful.