Relationships with seriously damaged people

[ella58]

Can anyone give any input on this?

My partner of three years has some quite severe emotional damage and trauma from the past, particularly PTSD. I really had no idea for the first two years and then it came out over time.

Can anyone give me any feedback on relationships like this? I know they are hard (experienced that) but I am torn between leaving and staying as these parts of him are sometimes really hard to cope with and he doesn't want to get counselling to get over them. He's terrified of facing the trauma and then unravelling completely.

As a couple of examples of struggles:

• He was abused before, and if I shout or get angry with him he gets into a real state and it takes days to calm him down. I am not an angry or scary person, this is just regular couple arguments but he reacts to them in a very big way.

• He is paranoid that the world is an unsafe place and people are going to hurt him, including me. Despite years of evidence I am safe, he defaults to self-defence in a problem which is counter productive.

• He is almost frozen emotionally in his 16 year old state when his first trauma happened, and his views on me, the present are often polluted by things which happened nearly 30 years ago

Things like this - it makes the relationship hard sometimes, and if I get upset or angry or have needs he finds hard to meet (he can be, like anyone else, worth having a row with from time to time), I then feel guilty for upsetting him by being upset.

He can't stand me being upset, so he insists in supporting or looking after me, after which he more or less has a mini breakdown because me being upset has caused him to have an avalanche of fear that I am going to leave him.

We are two people who love each other deeply, but who are not in a healthy, stable relationship because one of us is not healthy and stable inside themselves.

For anyone who's experienced PTSD or long term trauma, is there anything you can recommend to help aside from counselling?

He had a bad relapse lately due to a situation in the present which he found very triggering so it's been a very difficult year.

I have used diet, vitamins, supplements, exercise, mindfulness, aromatherapy, massage and all this has helped a lot. Things he refuses are:

counselling
meditation
yoga

As he feels afraid these things will unlock the trauma in some way and then he won't be able to cope.

I really do love him, but it's very hard.

@ella58 This all sounds heartbreaking for him but also for you.

He needs help and I can totally understand the fear around unlocking all that pain but he doesn't realise how freeing that could be for him in the long term.

You said he's worried about his job but not addressing this could be more damaging for his work.

I really would recommend looking into EMDR. It's incredible the way it works and I do know people whose lives have been completely turned around by it.

I don't think there's a requirement for him to have had therapy or counselling first. Tbh I don't think counselling is right here anyway, he needs specialist trauma therapy.

Ultimately though, this does have to come from him and if he won't do it then for your own sake I would think about walking away.

You asked earlier about how to make him see this without him feeling abandoned and I don't think you can, he will always see it that way because of his trauma and the messages his brain is telling him about him being unworthy of love etc

That shouldn't stop you though, you can't stay with someone for that reason.

I really do hope he gets the help he needs but please don't be afraid to protect yourself and walk away. You both deserve peace, happiness and love.

I was thinking about his reaction after you feeling so sad and upset about the anniversary. I have no doubt he wanted to be there for you, to offer you the understanding and care that you give to him and he was able to for a while.

I wonder if what happened the next day was a fear reaction to you being upset and distressed.
He's looking to you to be his safe person and his stable foundation as he doesn't have that in himself. So when you show that you are not always the strong, resilient one who holds everything together, it probably scared the shit out of him.

But you can't live that way.
This might all be bollocks but that was my thought.

Do you have any independent corroboration of what he's said?

I would take his 'story' with a pinch of salt before believing it all.

He's a doctor? I hope he doesn't behave like this with patients!!!!

For me it’s alcohol. Alcoholic parent. Oddly I can drink alcohol and I’m fine but if DH has a heavy night out/has a drink and leaves a can out I lose my shit - I’ve not had any treatment it’s just DH won’t do that often maybe once or twice a year and I just am learning to cope with it.

Op, in the nicest way have you ever had therapy? His behaviour is abusive and he is very manipulating.
You need to leave, this will never end well for you.

@Switch82

For me it’s alcohol. Alcoholic parent. Oddly I can drink alcohol and I’m fine but if DH has a heavy night out/has a drink and leaves a can out I lose my shit - I’ve not had any treatment it’s just DH won’t do that often maybe once or twice a year and I just am learning to cope with it.

Maybe you should consider treatment? It's not OK to act on your triggers, it's not fair on your partner. While you might be doing your best to control it, maybe seeking help with it would be useful.

None of this is your fault or your responsibility and I’d be wary of anyone suggesting you make changes because there is a risk that you reinforce the suggestion that you are doing something wrong, and I don’t think you are.

This is his issue and it’s for him to decide whether he is more scared of the (initial) unravelling and subsequent rebuilding-both in a supportive environment, OR whether change feels impossible and risky. Once you know that, you have a choice to make. But as others have said, you can’t change this, only he can. And you deserve better than to live on eggshells.

This relationship is doomed to fail if he doesn’t want to go to therapy. He will use his mental illness (intentionally or not) to emotionally manipulate you into always getting his way. He will drain all your energy. You can’t be lover and therapist.

It sounds like he doesn’t want help. You need to leave him now and he needs to realise that he needs professional help. He won’t change until he does.

I think you just need to tell him straight, using examples like the door handles, that you cannot live your life dealing with situations like that even if he is sorry afterwards. When he gets in a rage why doesn't he just go for a long walk/jog to calm down instead of continuing to rant at you? I realise this is simplistic but he cannot go on expecting you to bear the burden of his trauma.

What's the alternative though OP? That you feel unhappy forever in order for him not to feel abandoned?

And you're not allowed boundaries or to say you disagree because it'll lead to shaking, crying & emotional distress?

I think you need to stop squashing your feelings.
He's very aware & ready to share his, and if I may be frank, the door handle convo makes him sound self absorbed and manipulative because it's not all about him & his trauma.

The glaring issue IMO is that he has zero plans to do anything to improve the situation, so this is it, the man you see is what you get from here on out.

If you chose to end it, I suspect he will reframe it as you left due to his trauma, not his manipulative behaviour & unwillingness to get help. Thus absolving himself of any responsibility.

I think you can spend the rest of your life wondering what his motivations are and why he behaves the way he does, but at the end of the day, he treats you appallingly, has little insight into it and no plans to change. You cannot change him (I was tempted to capitalise that!). Your feelings are important. You owe him nothing, just leave.

Morning OP. Hope you managed to get some sleep.

Think long and hard about staying in this relationship. He sounds abusive to me and my ex was too but I forgave it because of his trauma. This man nearly destroyed me. By the end I didn’t know left from right, I was a ball of anger and resentment and I’m only starting to get back on my feet nearly 4 years later.

Please don’t let this be you xx

Walk away. If he wants you he will fix himself.

I don't want to get sucked into too much analysis, but I have never had a relationship with anyone "damaged" before, it's not really my type as I prefer a drama-free life after having a very drama-fuelled childhood, but I was a fixer in my family when I was little and a lot about this feels a bit familiar at times.

I did have extensive therapy off the back of my childhood, for several years, and came away a strong and resilient person, which is why I want this for him. Maybe I could get counselling now for some support for myself, but I feel a bit like I'd be paying £70 an hour for someone to tell me things I already know and shine a mirror on me to make me question why I am staying in a situation I know is toxic for me.

Things got quite horrible today and I think I probably need a bit of tough love from someone to handle this better. We don't live together Monday through Wednesday (we have a little flat we rent to save commuting on days I don't WFH) and after our fight he'd gone to stay there for the night. That's the first time ever that we have slept apart out of anger, which felt terrible. Usually he won't even let me sleep on the sofa if I am cross, we don't go to bed angry and that's always been our rule.

I decided I would just pack a bag and go off somewhere for a few weeks, so I booked a train to go up North to stay with friends. I messaged him that I was going to do that and would not be home when he returned. He messaged me back to say he loved me and he was not going anywhere, that we used to make each other so happy and he hadn't let go of hope we could get back there, he said he was sorry he was such a mess and for his anger, and he would wait for me for as long as I needed space for etc. He asked if I wanted him to come and meet me at the train but I said, "no".

I should have just gotten up and got on the train and then maybe we would have made progress, but I was expecting him to say "okay, I'll go to counselling then", but he didn't. He just seemed to be willing to let me pack a bag and go, which just made me feel like crap. I know this makes me weak and pathetic, not like those of you who have strength and resolve and make it sound easy, but I just fell back into bed and cried all morning and missed the train.

Then he called to say he was at the station trying to find me by the train and I explained I wasn't there as I was too upset to go. I feel, strangely, like him not wanting to get counselling means he doesn't love me enough to want to fix all this. I know that sounds mad, but he'd be willing to let me leave (even if he does travel 45 minutes to Kings Cross to try and see me before I go) rather than go and sit for 50 minutes with a nice lady and talk about stuff.

I know objectively this is mad, like there are alcoholics and crack addicts and depressed folk who need to want to help themselves and refusal to do so probably doesn't mean they don't love their partner but it makes me feel bad that he won't do this even if it means losing me. I have left relationships before, but the difference was I wanted to leave. And right now, I really don't.

He is a pain in the backside, he is dysfunctional, he is selfish and self-destructive and he's draining me with all this but he is also the best person I know, and being around him makes me happy. I love him. I really flipping to, and even the idea of being away from him for a week feels just horrible.

I really need help with that because maybe if I did leave it's the best chance to shock him into realising what he needs to do, but I worry, what if it's not? What if I'd rather live with this dysfunctional version than live without him completely? Maybe that life is better than one without him?

We talked more on the phone and he said that he feels like he is hanging on by his fingertips, and "healing" sounds a lot like me asking him to loosen his grip. So really, he is just lost in fear and he doesn't understand how counselling is going to help. He is a doctor, yes, but he's in clinical research, He has absolutely no clue about counselling or what it might do for him. He pictures that it will unravel things he can't face or that it might strip him of his defences which he feels he needs to survive.

He said he is taking steps to stabilise himself after his breakdown with efforts at self care, like eating right and going for massages and he is trying his best and once he felt better he could heal himself and then heal me from all this too, but he feels guilty and inadequate around me for not being strong enough to protect me from all of it. This indicates maybe when he's calmer he might get counselling?

Anyway, the arguments of the weekend sent him off on an anxiety spiral and now he's in a very triggered state. Nothing feels safe. Me saying I was leaving has left him shaken really badly. So now I am not safe and he cannot find sanctuary anywhere.

@shiningjustforyou thank you for this insightful post. Maybe when he feels a little calmer I will broach EDMR as a good alternative. He also told me today his reaction to me being upset was exactly that. Not that I wasn't being strong, but that he felt inadequate and guilty and like a bad person because he was letting me down and adding to my pain. He also said seeing me in tears or unstable scares him.

Oh @ella58 you are so miserable.

I'm sorry you're having such a terrible time.

I know you say you have done a lot of counselling but from the outside looking in it seems so clear you need independent counsel.

Your relationship sounds so draining, as if so much time is invested in trying to navigate the relationship rather than teaming up to get on with life.

It shouldn't be this hard.

I think you've lost yourself and slipped back into the familiarity of drama that you grew up with. I think you need some support to get back on track.

Were you in a better place before the relationship?

You are on here looking at things to fix him. You have been resourceful and offering different suggestions and modalities.
What is he doing?
What has he been trying for the last however many years to sort himself out?
Have you seen evidence of the things he has tried?
What has changed/what improvements have there been in the last year?
Two years?

It sounds vamphyric. If you continue, there will be nothing of you left. And he will drift into a relationship with the next "helper" when you are too exhausted /broken to supply his bottomless pit of need.

I have experienced this and seen this type of situation before.

OP,

You poor woman.

Unfortunately you are choosing chaos instead of a calm life.

You are drawn to your childhood go to role of fixer.

I mean this kindly but you are choosing a really miserable future.

You will have endless drama until you are completely submerged into a carer role.

But you do realise this and appear to be making a conscious decision to settle for a future of drama.

Bravery is required and wanting something more than you grew up with.

Stress of this type IMO inevitably shortens lives.

You are not helpless without any agency over your life.

You have a choice in this.

You will bitterly regret settling for a life of a carer and constant drama.

@ella58 I know there are people who have recommended different therapies to you but I would be very careful about pushing certain therapies on him. My boyfriend also suffers from paranoia and his friends and I felt strongly he needed to choose his own therapist so he doesn’t feel it was part of the ‘plot’ when he has another episode. I helped him shortlist the therapist (make sure they are part of an official association, believe it or not, anyone can call themselves a therapist or counsellor). A good therapist will be able to recommend the type of therapy your boyfriend. It’s not something you can push on someone or decide for someone else as it has worked wonders for other people.

And also therapy is not talking to a nice lady for 50 minutes! It’s a lot more than that. Accepting he needs therapy is recognising he is the problem or he has the problem and trying to fix yourself after 20 or so years of trauma is hard, don’t underestimate that. It’s a lot easier to blame your childhood, your abusive ex-partners than accepting you having to do the work yourself.

Also, in your post you said how can he not love you enough to do this? This is not about you, it’s never about you. It’s his mental health and you cannot fix it with love and that includes him loving you enough to do this. You are conflating the issues…

Sending hugs… it’s not easy…

How very hard indeed OP
Part of growth is change , and maybe he does need to evolve in how handles his trauma
But , good luck trying to get a man to attend therapy when they don’t want to

I’d gently persist in trying to get him to help himself
And I wish you well in the process
It’s not an easy path , and love isn’t always enough

@JollyJoon

Walk away. If he wants you he will fix himself.

That just isn't true. As others have said, it's nothing to do with whether he wants to be with the OP, he can't get better for her.

It's not about her but she is being damaged in the process which absolutely isn't fair and only the OP can decide whether to stay.

You poor thing, that sounds unbelievably hard. I would say though that I don't think it's helpful to take trips away in the hope that it will spur him on into getting help, although I understand the thinking. If you need a break then take a trip, but it doesn't work as a tool to make him do something - it'll only end up in disappointment for you, confusion on his part, and further muddied waters.

For your own sanity and to prevent this limping on indefinitely and helping neither of you, i think you need to decide what you are prepared to stay for. For example, you're prepared to stay only if he gets counselling and makes some progress, and you will definitely leave if he isn't going to try. Then you need a timescale which you will stick to (e.g. some sort of steps taken in the next week, counselling started in the next 2 months). Your plan can't be a threat to get him to comply, this is a plan that works for YOU regardless of what he chooses, because what you do is the only thing you have any control over.

All the best, I really feel for both of you

I think counselling is fantastic. However, I also think that he won't do it as he doesn't have the insight into himself to see what may help him and even if he does, it's not a quick fix. He could be in counselling for ten years and still be a crappy partner to OP.

100% agree with @Booboobadoo

Counselling isn’t for everyone and from what you’ve said he doesn’t want to face what he’s been through and deal with it. Even if he did go to counselling it does not mean it will “fix” him. He may not want to be fixed or maybe never will be. You need self awareness and determination to make a better life for yourself and I’m not sure he has that from what you’ve said.

You seem to have the impression that anyone who walks away from situations like this does it easily OP. That simply isn't the case. These are very hard decisions that we just have to make because the relationship has become codependent and enabling. You seem really in tune with how his trauma has informed his current behavior but your language really worries me as you seem to 'let him off' repeatedly by signalling his past. We all have 'shit' from our past, every single one of us can be any number of our childhood selves at any given point in time, your partner does not have the monopoly on this. The difference is whether or not we want to address our childlike behavior and continue to manipulate, rage, pass responsibility, or whether we want to grow up and take the reins of our own life. He is in no way unusual in asking you to manage him. Please don't be disillusioned here. I obviously don't know your past but I can see myself in some of what you have written and I just want to say, emphatically, he will not change in the way you want him to. No one can. You need to decide if this is the life you want to choose AS IT IS or you need to leave. No one can see what therapy, medication, or anyone other life choice he will make will do for him, but I certainly know that therapy will not 'cure' him in the way you seem to be suggesting. It simply doesn't work like that and he alone must choose whether if wants to address this stuff in himself. Currently you are doing it all for him

OP, you say "what if I'd rather live with this dysfunctional version than without him completely" but remember how unhappy you have been for the last few days. You spent a whole morning crying in bed. Is that really better than being single?