Argument with bf - am I catastrophising?

[hothead323]

I've been with my bf for 7 months, he is 32 and I am 31. We have different personalities - I am more outgoing and sociable whereas he is more reserved and quiet. This has worked well for us so far as we balance each other out.

I am quite opinionated and we don't necessarily agree on everything, and that's ok - we are all entitled to our opinion and it's ok to agree to disagree.

The thing is, where I am quite opinionated and passionate about certain topics and he is sensitive, he can perceive me as being angry when I'm not. This happened during a phone call this evening - we disagreed on an issue, I stated why I think differently to him etc, he thought my tone was angry and took offence. I wasn't angry, but him thinking that I was angry MADE me angry because i didn't feel I had given him any reason to feel this way and I feel like we should be able to have a grown up debate without it becoming such a big thing. We sort of resolved the issue via whatsapp (with me instigating this - he just said 'forget about it') by agreeing that it's six of one and half a dozen of the other - I need to calm down and chill out a bit and he needs to not take everything so personally - but I'm now awake and questioning everything. I am hoping this is only a slight incompatibility that we can overcome as everything else in the relationship is good, but I am a big worrier and hate conflict and now I'm worried it could be the end of the relationship.

I am due to see him on Saturday night but this whole exchange has left me feeling very uncomfortable (as I said, I hate conflict) and I am considering suggesting to him that I pop over this evening (Friday) just for 30 mins for a quick chat and to clear the air.

What do you think?

You’re seeing him on Saturday, 24 hours really isn’t going to make a difference and he might feel crowded if you go over tonight. I suggest you sit with your discomfort and honestly think about your communication style, is there anything you need to change.

I was challenged about something recently and really wanted to talk it through, the other person said we could talk about it when we saw each other next and I felt put out, to say the least. Actually taking the time away to think about it properly I saw there was some truth in what they were saying and I need to do some work on myself. Until that point I was unaware how I was coming across.

Take it as feedback, give it some thought and consider what, if anything, is valid. That will be much more helpful to you than rushing to try abs fix things.

[quote hothead323]@Aquamarine1029 no not everything is a debate with me but I will state if I fundamentally disagree with someone on issues such as gay people, finding programmes/films that poke fun at disabled people funny, racism etc.[/quote]
These fundamental disagreements are pretty important - are any of these the sorts of things you disagree on?

I think debating can be healthy but only when both parties want to have that sort of discussion. Also, some issues I think are disagreements you can agree to disagree on but others are a real clash of core values. The things you describe here are really unpleasant - racism, homophobia (?) etc. These are core values issues and disagreeing on those really does point towards some fundamental incompatibilities.

For what it's worth there are topics myself and dh don't even discuss because we both know it will get heated and we won't agree. Politics for a start. Maybe just don't discuss things you know you won't agree on.

Hi op, some of the comments here are quite mean to you, there's nothing wrong with being outgoing, having opinions, enjoying a healthy debate etc. What I would say though is that I think you and your bf are not well suited, it's only a few months in and already he's struggling with your tone etc. This will not be a long term success story, quit now and find someone who loves you as you are.

Op you sound like me when I was in my 20s. I was permanently "passionate" aka angry.

Being with a partner whose values didn't match mine made that anger massively worse.

Your partner sounds homophobic and ableist, do you really want to carry on with him?

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation

Op you sound like me when I was in my 20s. I was permanently "passionate" aka angry.

Being with a partner whose values didn't match mine made that anger massively worse.

Your partner sounds homophobic and ableist, do you really want to carry on with him?

You have presumed that the OPs opinions on sexuality and disability are saintly. And, that these issues are black and white and not very complex.

As it is MN indulges itself with opinionated and heated debates on these topics on a regular basis. And less than half the posts get deleted.

But your point is well made. Explaining opinions or trying to change minds only works with people who want to listen. When they tell you they don’t save your heartache.

I'm a bit the same, OP. It took me a long time to realise that most people are pretty simple and basic. I can't conceive of having a relationship where we just 'have a laugh' and don't talk about anything deeper than Strictly or gossip in our friend group, but look at the replies here. That's what most people seem to do.

It sounds like you just need to find someone who actually enjoys having their opinion challenged and seeing new perspectives. I've had relationships with men like that - they are just hard to find.

Does he ask for your opinions or do you just spout them off in a diatribe? I have a friend who likes to talk about anti vax propaganda. I don't. She will go on and on and I have to shut her down. We could 'debate' but she won't listen to my side and I sure as hell don't want to listen to hers.

OP you are my DP and I am your partner in this situation. We have been together happily for over 7 years now. We have very different views on the world and very different ways of expressing ourselves. It's been a massive learning curve for both of us! But it does work - we have had to work at it together and there's been bumps in the road. The fact you are acknowledging both of your parts in this is good and looking to find a way forward.
With my DP he gets passionate (I take this as angry) about seemingly small things (normally a build up of other things and this is his snap) and also when he feels I'm not understanding his point/he isn't understanding mine. He is not purposely getting aggressive/angry towards me, it's just a frustration coming out and he doesn't always have the words, he starts to panic.
The most important thing here was for him to understand (as you have stated in your post) that whilst you don't feel angry or intend the way that you are communicating to be angry, the other person is feeling anger from you and wants to retreat.
It's taken a while for DP to understand that, and I must admit at times I have just walked away to let him simmer down. He then realised he's reached the hard limit for me. He is much more self aware of how others perceive his reactions now and doesn't portray himself that way nearly as much/rarely. He also listens to me when I tell him he's reaching that point and stops.
I also have had to accept that he has a less calm demeanour than me and I do allow him to have an outburst when needed, so long as it's not personal to me.
From the point of view of differing opinions, we have agreed to disagree on many topics and rarely discuss controversial topics. When we do we always acknowledge at the start that we will stop if it starts to get tricky.
We do however communicate really well outside of politics, social issues and regularly discuss differences of opinions when they arise (money/kids) as it means nothing builds up and helps DP to get his point across before he becomes too frustrated.
I think you are right in not pushing this with your DP, as someone who doesn't react well to anger/raised voices I often need time to process and then file away the experience, so that I can move forward. Your DP may need this too and if that's the case you will need to recognise that and not push him immediately afterwards. Allow him time to process.
Good luck OP it's not an easy ride to overcome significant differences in world view or debating style, but I can be dove if you both remain self aware and open to discuss it.

I mean this in the nicest way, from reading the above you come across as very insecure and not sure of your thoughts at all. Your looking for reassurance is typically an anxious behaviour. I have a friend who is similar, perpetually single because of 'conflict' as you detail above - but its not - she just has to overegg every argument to the point that most guys leave for an easy life.
Maybe you never learned to respectfully disagree or explore other viewpoints? You both sound incompatible as he sounds very grounded and you not so much.

@hothead323

No, just providing evidence that supports my opinion and why I disagree with his. As I said, it's ok for us to disagree.

In any case, what do you think I should do going forward? Message to ask if I can pop over tonight or leave it? I hate this uncomfortable feeling that is lingering now and would like to clear the air asap.

It doesn't sound like it's ok to disagree if you're going to the lengths of providing evidence.

I agree with people saying you’re incompatible.

The “we balance each other out” is usually thought/said at the beginning of or early on in relationships because you don’t want to admit the glaring differences that are there.

You’re more outgoing, he’s not so basically:
You want to do more social things, he wants to stay home,
He wants to do quiet things, you find them dull.

Find someone you’re compatible with. Everything is much easier when you do.

@Bagelsandbrie

What sort of things are you arguing about? Because if it’s stuff that will potentially affect parenting decisions / decisions if you live together I’d just walk away to be honest as you aren’t compatible.

I was going to say similar.

To be having heated 'debates' this early on, on top of the obvious differences between you that you have pointed out, I would say it's just probably not going to work.

It's ok to not agree on some things but if it's important things that are getting you so heated then I would argue that's not ok in a relationship.

There are things me and y dp might not see eye to eye on but actually, I can't think of many because finding someone who shared the same values, etc as me was important. Other things I can see past but not the fundamentals.

[quote hothead323]@Aquamarine1029 no not everything is a debate with me but I will state if I fundamentally disagree with someone on issues such as gay people, finding programmes/films that poke fun at disabled people funny, racism etc.[/quote]
Sorry, are you saying your boyfriend has horrible opinions on those topics? If so why on earth are you with him?!

Maybe he’s not as interested in having grown up debates as you are? Maybe he would prefer to talk about other things.

It takes a while to get to know someone and it’s possibly too soon to know if you are ultimately compatible. You’re just feeling your way together at the moment (I’m also 6 months in to a new relationship).

I wouldn’t phone him or go over to see him before your next arranged date because it doesn’t sound as though anything has been left unresolved.

If a regular passionate debate is more important to you than it is to him you just might need to find another outlet for it.

All the best.

[quote hothead323]@fallfallfall er how is me expressing my opinion bullying? And surely if I was a bully I wouldn't want to make things right now? As I stated in mu OP 'we don't necessarily agree on everything, and that's ok - we are all entitled to our opinion and it's ok to agree to disagree' - do those sound like the words of a bully?[/quote]
Actions speak louder than words though. If he can't have or voice an opinion without you turning it into a passionate debate (aka extremely draining headfuck, to someone who doesn't enjoy debating) then yes you're being a bit of a bully.

[quote hothead323]@CatonMat he phones every night anyway and when we ended the conversation he said he would call me tonight. I always think that talking things over face-to-face is best?

@laurenGame It wouldn't be to convince him of my opinion - that conversation is over. It would just be to clear the air. I don't think there's any awkwardness - the text conversation ended with him saying 'it is likely there is a bit of both of us in this', me agreeing and asking to disagree and move on, him saying 'i think that is best' and us both saying goodnight. I suppose I would just like to see him to make sure everything really is resolved - communicating via message isn't ideal.

@sykadelic yes, I think you are right - we need to learn to leave these topics alone. It's still reasonably early in the relationship and we are still getting to know each other and how to deal with these things...if he doesn't want to dump me after tonight![/quote]
But the situation is sorted and you've agreed with him to drop it/accept equal responsibility for the argument happening. So what is there to clear the air about? Its already been done.

This smacks of you feeling insecure about being dumped, because you know you've pushed the boundaries (although you don't see it like that, you've just noted his reaction), so what you actually want is reassurance in person that he's not going to dump you.

How about instead you accept responsibility for your actions and the feelings you're having, which resulted from those actions and their affect on someone else? It's not for your boyfriend to fix your emotional state for you. That's for you to do.

Wanting yet another "clear the air" session (your already had two, during the original phone call and over WhatsApp) is suffocating, overbearing behaviour on your part.

[quote hothead323]@Aquamarine1029 no not everything is a debate with me but I will state if I fundamentally disagree with someone on issues such as gay people, finding programmes/films that poke fun at disabled people funny, racism etc.[/quote]
Relationships only work when people share the same fundamental values. You're incompatible.

How many heated discussions are you having exactly? I can count on one hand how many me and my partner of 2 years have had

Some people like debates. It doesn't make them headfucks ffs.

@supercali77

Some people like debates. It doesn't make them headfucks ffs.

No but debates are not healthy ways to address differences of opinions in relationships because they have a win/lose outcome which is not focussed on mutual understanding.

This sounds similar to my wife and I. We do agree on most fundamentals, and rarely argue or debate, she does tend to get very worked up at times. While she does not direct it at me, she gets loud, her face gets very animated, by every indicator she appears and behaves as if she is very angry, without even realizing it herself.

It has taken some work on our part as I still, and likely always will, have a visceral uncomfortable reaction to her apparent anger, but am able to consciously reframe myself to not react to it. It is difficult and exhausting. On her part, she is aware enough that she can slow her roll enough to at least state that she is not angry with me, or if I ask her if she is angry, she can usually refocus.

There are things that we will avoid, not because we disagree or anything, rather that I just really do not enjoy having to deal with her angry energy.

@supercali77

Some people like debates. It doesn't make them headfucks ffs.

I wasn't taking about the people who enjoy debating, which you'd see if you read my post properly.

I was talking about how it feels to be on the receiving end of someones "passion" who insists on debating everything you disagree on, when you're a person who doesn't enjoy debating.

You say you weren't angry. You say you weren't acting angrily. But you might come across as angry. Its really worth thinking about what "animated", "opinionated" etc comes across to others have and just developing more awareness.

Also you repeatedly say two things which can't both be true. You repeatedly say you hate conflict. You repeatedly say things along the lines of you're entitled to your opinion and its ok to disagree.

So something to think about is whether actually you like to voice your opinions but don't like being disagreed with or asked to moderate your tone....which is different.

If you are opinionated but hate conflict you are going to come across these feelings mixing forevermore.

From his point of view, you had a heated debate that sounds like he has had enough of on the phone, then you wanted to resolve it there and then over WhatsApp, then you thought it might be best to pop over for more reassurance the next day whilst then seeing him on Saturday. Honestly that is a lot of work over a supposed grown up debate.

He might not be as sensitive as you think he might just listen to arguments and think things through before responding or forming an opinion. Still waters run deep.

People have all different opinions. And if you want to express a point in a debate it tends to be better received if you can do it in a calm manner.

Me and Mr Frozen met in our early 30s and oh god we are chalk and cheese, or were most definitely on many matters. On the big stuff, you know basic human decency, we were very similar but all the rest was up for grabs.....sport, books, films, art, food, places to visit leisure time. We love a debate and over time we have clashed horns but, and here is the thing, we have both grown, both learnt from each other and both of us have changed our opinions after listening and realising that our black and white view on a particular subject was not informed enough and the other brought it up to (50) shades of grey.

It's boring debating with someone who never stops to listen, accept they may be mistaken and thinks their opinion god's gift above all others. And we have all been guilty of this.

Try and chill a bit.
If you do upset him from time to time so what? If he upsets you do you automatically think "ya dumped". Why would he automatically think that?