So, apparently I am the manipulative ex wife....

[abyssiniam8]

I don't know if I am being silly at being this upset about this.

Divorced from ex for 4 years. He had multiple affairs and is now with ow. 20 years of marriage being gaslit, emotional abuse etc. I even ended up hospitalized as he really made me think I was going insane.

Have two older dc, age 22 and 18. They are both in full time education and live with me. The eldest does not have much contact with his dad for a few years now, due to disliking his new family. 18 year old has recently gone nc for similar issues, I don't blame her at all as she is completely excluded if she went there, if she says no thanks to a smoke or a drink they take the piss out of her for being a 'nerd'. (they drink far too much and I have long suspected he is a functional alcoholic). Dd has had a lot of health issues and absolutely cannot drink alcohol with the medication she takes, but just goes along with it for the peace otherwise they (he and the ow 3 children) tease her for being a goody two shoes..... I know, its just unbelievable. Hence me having to deal with the aftermath when she comes back home again, as alcohol knocks out the effects of the meds, so she sort of has to build up again.

Her last visit was a clusterfuck as he just picked on her choices of study, told her she needs to work, told my ds the same as he says he can't afford maintenance anymore so they must now work. (he is a director so not short of a bob or two). Ok so that is the back story.

I am self employed and its been a tough slog, woman in a very male dominated industry. The clients I have are long term clients, and with this have built up a nice relationship with some of them. As in friendship. nothing more. (I really am not interested in meeting someone else).

My ex is in a related industry and we have a couple of mutual clients. One of them is one that I have become quite friendly with.

I saw this client yesterday and he said that he had been to a get together over the weekend and my ex was there. So he and my ex got into a conversation and ex asked the client about me. Client played it cool and did not say that we speak from time to time, just let on it is purely business relationship. Then ex tells him what a manipulative bitch I am, I am stopping his dc from seeing him by putting stuff in their head about him, I have made life hell for him, I am a money sponge and says I blow all maintenance money on clothing for dd and I and ds is left to wear clothing with holes in.... (this came about as he bought underwear for himself but they were too small, so he sent them for ds to wear as they couldn't be returned. Ds messaged him and said thanks for the pants, just what I needed...(being sarcastic).

I just sat there with my jaw dropped to the floor. The dc don't want to see him, that is their choice, because of how he treats them when/if they went to his house. For eg, dd sleeps there and has to use a blow up mattress as they don't even have a bed for her, never mind a room. I am the one who reminds them of his birthday, buys the gifts for birthday, Christmas, fathers day. I often ask them have they been in touch. I have never ever come between their relationship, it is their choice now to not see him, so I don't even discuss him with the dc anymore.

I said to the client that people must believe what they want, as I know the truth. But I am so upset and angry about this. I have grey rocked him so he can't get a reaction out of me, so now is this his next tactic, so stoop so low to say these things to a client!

My dc don't know about it and I won't mention is as dd isn't in a good place health wise (he never even asks how she is) and ds will go off his rocker. And then I can't contact him about it as he will know this client has told me, and he said he was telling me this in confidence, so I don't want to drop him in it. In fact I don't even want him involved at all as it's nothing to do with him.

I just needed to get this off my chest and ask wwyd. I am thinking to just ignore and move on as I know he is a narcissistic piece of shit, and he is just looking for some sort of response or reaction from me. The right thing to do is ignore, right? But I feel so hurt/upset/angry about it.

I can't think of anything that stoops lower than this.

If it gets brought up in conversation with the client again, is it worth having some phrases to shut down the topic? I’m thinking…

I prefer to not draw professional contacts into personal matters, now how is the project/campaign/whatever going?

My favourite go to phrase when I am facing gossip/fishing/generally flummoxed by what’s been said is either a really flat “oh” followed by either changing the subject or staying silent and looking away, or “ there’s usually at least two sides to a story depending on who is telling it”, and then changing the subject, or asking them a question about themselves.

Sorry your ex is living up to low expectations, try to rise above, and use here as a safe place to vent.

Why do you share a client with your ex? What service do you and ex provide? This mutual client could either feel awkward about being stuck between feuding exes, or he could relish the fact he’s involved and find it exciting. Either way, you can’t trust this client now.

Your ex sounds like a very self destructive man who is acting very stupidly - agree that hearing that sort of stuff from a professional would be quite weird, although i also find it odd that the client said anything to you, maybe testing you out a bit to see if you are drawn into being unprofessional as well. Incredibly distressing for you

I suspect your client knows the score. Surprisingly in my experience you'll find men usually know the score and can tell the difference between someone dong the ''my ex is a bitch' scenario as a poor me as opposed to someone who's ex is genuinely unreasonable.

We don't know the context of the conversation but you client may have wanted to let you know what's being said. For something to be 'true' doesn't mean it actually happened just that it's believed.

..
My x cut from same cloth.
Some fathers just cannot take responsibility for their own bad parenting and you will always be to blame, even as in my case, 14 years later

He was clearly drunk when he had the conversation - may not even remember it. Perhaps you can speak to a colleague of his if there is one you can trust? You have the power to damage his business and his reputation not just with the bad mouthing but with the drinking issue.

I’d find it hard to resist emailing the client as a previous poster suggested. But you are probably better off not getting into a denial or engagement at all. I am shocked on your behalf, but I’d advise you don’t react in haste.

Don't rise to it. It's what he wants. It's just another way to get to you. I wouldn't go down the legal route. Imagine the cost and stress that will involve. In reality anyone who knows you and matters will know it's not true.

I read your post as your client giving you a heads up. I like the idea of stock responses just in case it happens again. Stand tall and a big smile. Don't let this little unhappy man grind you down. He's really not worth any of your time or energy.

I would laugh it off and say oh you know you can't believe anything x says. He is such a fantasist. Certainly don't let him see he has got to you. Because thats what he wants.

I don’t think you have to worry about the client if the client told you in a ‘heads up, this is what is being said’ kind of way. If it was said in a gossipy way and wanting a rise from you then be wary. If you have a good relationship with your client then it’s most probably been said with good intent.

It’s very common, and I’m sure most people know that. I don’t think the client would even have mentioned to you if he actually believed it. He was telling you to give you heads up and is clearly on your side. Your DC also know who is really looking out for them.

I’m also self-employed and I would never regale a client with stuff like that! It’s unprofessional and makes him look like a twat.

One of the many reasons I left my ex was his lying and gaslighting. I dread to think what shit he has told his friends and old mutual friends about me, about why we split etc. (i don’t see a lot of mutual friends any more because with work and being primary carer I barely get out and only really see my own friends, so he gets to control the narrative). I know he tell the kids I’m not a good parent - they don’t agree. I know the truth and I know if anyone is bothered they could find it out too.

So yes I think you do have to ignore and rise above. But vent away. He sounds like a total arsehole.

Laugh, ignore, move on. Standard bitter XDH practice.

XDH’s new wife won’t talk to me at all - I do wonder what the sexually abusive, financially controlling twat of a bad father has said to her about me sometimes.

@ByeByeMissAmericanPie

That’s dreadful, OP.

How about

Dear Mr Client

I’m so sorry you appear to have been caught up in the post marital relationship issues between my ex and me. It’s unprofessional to say the least, and I apologise if you’ve been given the wrong end of the stick.

I’m glad that we have a good working relationship and I look forward to continuing with you as a client going forward.

Yours sincerely…

I’d question the professionalism of that client . They’re in a professional relationship with both the op and her ex. What the hell is he doing listening to personal rants by the ex about the OP when he is contracting her, and then what’s he doing passing on that bilge to the OP. Sounds to me that the client is at very least blurring boundaries and at worst is shit stirring. I’d send a letter that isn’t a apology at all, with words to effect that understand he has working relationship with both OP and ex but feel that for the client relationship it is important not to raise or discuss conversations of a personal matter . Really, it is not for the Op to write a grovelling letter. Just to ensure she closes down any future conversations like this immediately

I said he, of course could be she?

So your ex has basically lived up to being true to form, still being an abusive dickhead. He's not ever going to change and suddenly say nice things about you.
Rant and rave to friends and mumsnet and distant yourself completey. You kids are old enough you don't need any contact really, unless it's emergency.

It's clear you have a positive and friendly relationship with the client - not least because you felt it was necessary to highlight that he's just a client, nothing more. Which is great. I think it's entirely unlikely that he believed a word of it, and I suspect if he met your exh in a social situation where he was ranting, he was probably also inappropriately drunk. It sounds to me like the client is trying to give you a heads up that your ex is saying this stuff in work settings in an attempt to bad mouth you.

I would consider a call with a solicitor to ask whether it's worth sending a cease and desist letter saying not to discuss your personal lives with clients, but I suspect the lawyer would say it's not worth it and you're just giving him more ammunition.

The bit that I would find most irritating is that this client clearly doesn't believe it, but it's so frustrating not knowing who else he is spouting this shit to. And you can't defend yourself. All I can say is that normal sensible people should be able to work it out pretty quickly based on what they know of you and the sheer reality of the fact that you have older children who are perfectly capable of making their own decisions.

I have a very old male friend who I've never quite been able to look at the same since he gave me the whole, "my mate Dan is being taken to the cleaners by his ex-wife after he made millions and now she wants a divorce...." His mate Dan moved his wife and children all over the world for this job, she had a successful career before (lawyer) which she agreed to give up, and then Dan had an affair...Sadly, my point is that there WILL be people who will believe your DH but the good news is that I think it's clear THIS client doesn't.

I suspect the client and any others will have him measured up based on what he said (and your reply in this case) but I'd have struggled not to muse aloud how worried I was about the viability of his business as he was encouraging his DC to leave education when they are successful and happy and have professional aspirations to take entry level employment to save on the child maintenance. I'd have also gently asked if he'd had more than a few drinks when he said this as his DC had noticed he was being convivial even earlier in the day than usual.

In reality, it sounds like you and your DC have the measure of your ex and grey rock will infuriate him the most, as will his DC wanting nothing to do with him.

FWIW, the words a NRP use to describe their ex bears no relation to any sensible person's judgement of them.

At least he said you were giving the maintenance to the DC instead of using it in frivolities yourself.

Good luck.

Your kids are 18 and 22? They're adults, so whatever contact they want/have with their dad is totally down to them, can't be your fault or problem any more. If your daughter can't drink for medical reasons, then she needs to stand up for herself and not drink, the coercion there is a bit concerning. Does she drink when she goes out with her friends?
I can see his point about paying maintenance, certainly for a 22 year old. And you definitely shouldnt be buying presents on their behalf.

I don't think there's much you can do about him bad mouthing you, but most people he tells will see straight through that, like your client seems to have. There's nothing more pathetic than a vocal bitter ex.

Smearing is a standard technique of toxic narcs when they can’t get to you directly.

Well done to you for having watertight boundaries already.

However it is a futile wild goose chase to try to rectify the information beyond closing down any conversation with a “Oh dear, he sounds vexatious, there’s two sides to every story but I won’t be getting into that here”

I would also trust that lots of people divorce and others know it’s messy and don’t want and are very uncomfortable with the details.

I would suggest that your client was wasn’t taking sides but more disturbed by your XH behaviour rather than the content. It’s v undignified and puts the listener in a very unpleasant and unwelcomed position. The client would be questioning your xDH integrity and dignity on a personal level and wondering how reliable and trustworthy this character is in a business context. This will ultimately back fire on your XH.

The only thing that you need to do is ensure that it doesn’t linger under your skin and unsettle your confidence - personally and in business - because that is exactly what he wants to achieve - to punish and annihilate you.

Look at him with pity - he’s got his “prize” - the OW but that can’t be making him blissfully happy if he is fixated on destroying you.

Well done for getting out. Well done for building your career and supporting your DCs. You have done some v hard yards over the years.

But you do sound quite exhausted and depleted and easily knocked of balance by this incident. Maybe look to shift a gear in your own self care - more rest, pampering, more fun and fulfilling activities to boost your energy and joy in life.

Honestly, I think you handled this really well - even if accidentally! - and I would now just carry right on and do nothing. Except, of course, to be wary and edit when you now speak to this client.

Think about it - if you knew two people, and one chose to rant and rave about the most ridiculous, totaly cliche 'my ex is a bitch and doesn't let the kids see me and doesn't even buy them pants' -and you knew the ex, knew from your own experience that she seemed reasonable, nice, professional... and when you brought this up with the ex she remained professional, simply commented that people should believe what they wish to and refused to stoop so low as to slag him off in deeply unprofessional return... who would you believe?!

Your ex has shown himself up.

You haven't.

Just carry on, ignore, be pleased that he's been a twat here and has probably damaged his relationship with the client, who will if nothing else see him as bitter and hysterical.

But from now on, everything that you say to client is vetted, and only the bland, professional, kind and positive gets through. With a bland smile. :)

Oh and the ages of your kids are relevant here too. If they were 10 and 7, fine. But a man whining about his bitch ex stopping him seeing his, um, 22 year old son? Um, that woudl be probably a no, wouldn't it, and far more probably the case that this adult man doesn't want to see him?

Jeeez your fool of an ex...

Fwiw I was approached quite recently about dds dad and didn't I feel guilty separating him from his precious child like that etc etc I said she is 21 and doesn't even LIVE with me anymore just how the fuck am I stopping her seeing him? Apparently not paying for driving lessons so she can go to her house without me (she doesn't want driving lessons) I said she catches trains and busses all the time she can do that if she wants to see him this was the wrong answer and they were horrified by my "attitude"

She is a grown up that's my attitude her life her choice

For a start don't prompt your children to call or speak to your ex, don't buy him gifts for anything, if the children want they will make an effort. They clearly do not want to, and they're old enough to have agency over their own decisions.

I'd be very wary and completely business-like with people spreading gossip and carrying tales from one side to the other as guaranteed they will do the same back if you say anything. Be cool calm and business-like only. you want to keep the business relationship going you don't need a personal friendship with these people.

@Theunamedcat

Fwiw I was approached quite recently about dds dad and didn't I feel guilty separating him from his precious child like that etc etc I said she is 21 and doesn't even LIVE with me anymore just how the fuck am I stopping her seeing him? Apparently not paying for driving lessons so she can go to her house without me (she doesn't want driving lessons) I said she catches trains and busses all the time she can do that if she wants to see him this was the wrong answer and they were horrified by my "attitude"

She is a grown up that's my attitude her life her choice

While OP's client clearly is not one of these, this is the sort of thing I was referencing. It's amazing how often these men's stories are believed.

DH and I would do anything to meet BIL's ex. We all believed his stories when he met SIL. 15 years later.... well, let's just say we suspect she has a very different version of events and we feel like idiots for not realising it.

If it was me, I’d pay to see a solicitor to see if there’s any route to getting a legal gag put on him when it comes to mutual clients. It’s awful and I’m sorry you’re going through this. What a prick. What did your client say? To be honest, the client should have shut him down and not told you. I’d recommend building up your portfolio of clients that have nothing to do with him and slowly backing away from the ones who do. Get him totally out of your sphere. Move area etc. Be proactive about cutting all ties