Finances - have I been taken for a ride?

[Raspberries36]

Been in a LTR but tenancy has always been in my name as I like to stay independent. For some reason partner never likes to talk about money. He has recently had a large payrise and earns at least a third more than me. Also has big savings for a potential property buy for us both, which he often talks about. This has been what has kept my head in the sand I suppose, as I knew he’d be the one putting the deposit down (something which he knows I can’t afford).

However I’ve just started to realise how I’m having to increase my overdraft regularly as I pay out the rent and council tax and he gives me a small lump sum monthly and pays for my car and the upkeep of that plus holidays (UK only).

I’ve said to him that I think we need to sit down and look at finances as it’s starting to feel unfair. I’ve realised I have spent over two thirds more on rent and council tax in the last two years than him. I have a child so I initially felt I should be paying more as we need two bedrooms etc.

I’m feeling so cross at myself that I haven’t saved any money and that I’m living in my overdraft. I could go for a cheaper place but he is reluctant as he has everything he needs where we currently live (lots of space benefits) and child loves it too.

Feeling quite stupid and confused about how this has happened. We’re going to have a talk about this when he gets his new increased pay check but even then he said he’s feeling apprehensive and hates money talk.

Have I been a fool?

@Raspberries36

Yes the house would be in both our names

Well, that's what he's told you anyway...

Not sure about ‘take for a ride’ as you have, as you say, buried your head in the sand and also seen ‘I dependence’ as paying the rent.

So, let an unsatisfactory arrangement drift.

No doubt your partner does see the savings pit as a house for you both.

The problem is that the current system gives him all the security and you all the risk, in the event of a break up before you get the house.

I would suggest:
Make a list of all household bills and expenses.

Set up a joint account from which all joint expenses are paid: bills, rent, food etc.

Make a list of all your own expenses: anything daughter related, your car etc, pension, savings that are not deposit related.

Discuss with him a fair way to pay money into the joint account: pro rata to income / 50:50 / 59:50 with adjustment for your Dd or whatever.

This figure, plus the amount of your personal expenses, will inform how much you can save towards the house deposit.

Set up a house deposit savings account.

I would start the conversation from the POV of wanting to be more clear about saving for the deposit, and you being able to do that. Also setting up
a system of covering household expenditure that matches the reality.

If you are going to live together as a family you need to be able to talk about money, clearly and calmly.

Resentment about money bleeds a relationship to death, so it is worth dealing with it with honesty and openness.

@Raspberries36

So he pays gas and electric for bills which is about 115 a month and I pay internet. I’d say outgoings are £2000/2100 for rent/council and food and he’s giving me a quarter of that

So is the internet on top of the 2k you are spending on rent and council tax and food? What about your water rates? There’s more costs here you haven’t factored in.

It sounds like he is paying under £400 all in!!!! And he gets to keep and save the rest?!

Yes he’s taking you for a ride and the car thing is also horrible - he’s got this car in his name so it is HIS car and he’s letting you use it. It’s not YOUR car not he’s got you thinking it is. You can bet he’ll take it, yes.

Sorry £600

That’s what I’m feeling cross about , it’s around £600 including car but he has a really nice lifestyle for very little money.

Edge of Sky- thank you for this breakdown, will be using this when we sit down and talk. His reaction to the conversation will be an eye opener

Do you know how much he has in savings ? Do you even know where the money is ? Bank, building society, biscuit tin under the bed ?

The vocabulary is wrong, he has savings should be we have savings. Why isn't it a joint account ? Why don't you have visibility on it ?

These savings, then, do they even exist ? Is that just bullshit and he's spending it ?

So, this house he's saving for. Where is it ? Local to where you are now ? He has the deposit money so it's his call.

Is there a goal in mind i.e. the houses I like cost £200,000. A 5% deposit is £10,000. I currently have more/less than that saved. I've seen houses in 'name your locality' on the internet/Estate Agents window that I can afford to buy. Shall I make an appointment to view some of those houses ?

No ? Thought not. He won't 'put his money where his mouth is.' It's a ruse to keep you dangling.

Yes you have been a total food.

He is tight and has been using your home to save money.

He's some prince living off a single mother.

Saving for a deposit for a house in both your names?

Yea right.

Calculate how much YOU have over paid for him in the last 4 years and ask him to transfer the money to you.

If he says yes no problem, fair enough.

If he quickly balks and packs his things, you have your answer.

He sounds like a total user and you are very foolish to be using an overdraft to pay for a man.

Apologies if that is harsh, but you need to give yourself a shake.

No savings but paying for a man?

You can't afford him.

I’d say he has around a third of a house sale saved and I have seen his savings accidentally, not because he’s shown me.

We don’t pay water bills.

Have notes it down:
So it’s around £715 he’s paying for rent/food/bills/my car that he is paying, all in

I pay1600 alone for rent/CT and internet. Not adding anything else to it and my salary is only a bit more than this

Either what you have is 50/50 savings or from this point all savings are shared and you each pay the new fairer amount so you can both save equal amounts for the future (In new joint account). He can’t wiggle out of both scenarios. Which would he prefer?

Decent bloke would see how unfair that he’s keeping huge amounts of income and you are using over draft. You can’t change past but you can make it fairer from next pay day and accept mistakes were made. Unlikely he will surprise you and hand over savings and agree to fairer rate but least you know where you stand.

Savings include inheritance money which I wouldn’t dream of trying to have . But the savings since living together do seem really unfair

*Calculate how much YOU have over paid for him in the last 4 years and ask him to transfer the money to you.

If he says yes no problem, fair enough.

If he quickly baulks and packs his things, you have your answer.*

This. It would be interesting to know how much of a dent this puts in his savings.

Sorry, but why has it taken four years to get to this point ? Did he move in on his terms ? Did you discuss him moving or did it, 'just happen' ? You've had your head in the sand and he has capitalised on that. Quite literally.

There's also an impasse here i.e. get your name on those savings, he might counter that with put my name on the tenancy.

If you like your independence, why are you buying a house with him i.e. you expect to have your name on the house deeds but haven't put his name on the tenancy agreement. Sorry, I don't understand.

I'm sensing an unspoken mistrust here, by both of you.

Wow if i only paid £600 a month for everything i’d have so much left to save and spend on myself! Even if he didn’t earn much full time that’s still a nice few hundred a month to put by. But he earns more than you so god only knows how much he is saving each month - 1k at least by the sounds of it.

I honestly don’t see how any conversation could rectify this. It’s not like he doesn’t know how much he’s been saving at your expense and it’s very telling he kept his car in his name but called it your car.

Yep, you’ve been subsidising his savings so time to ask for your fair share in your name. I think the reaction will tell you everything. Talk is cheap, he can promise you the world, but the facts and his actions are he has done nothing to protect your contribution, it’s all in his name and he has control over it. And, he’s actually made you worse off as a single mother too. He’s happily watching you go deeper into your overdraft while his nest egg grows.

The only thing I can think of to excuse it is he is poor with money and didn’t think it through and the position he was putting you in, but he doesn’t sound money illiterate he sounds very canny.

How very convenient for him that you like to be independent, and that he "hates money talk". You have got yourself a cocklodger. I hope I am wrong but I agree with the PPs who say he is likely hedging his bets. Sponging off you whilst silting away his money for a deposit. Despite his mumblings about buying a joint property, at any given time he could up and leave, buy a property alone (or with a new woman), take the car (assuming it is in his name) and you will have nothing to show for it except debt.

If the home was owned by you, there would be more reason for him not to pay towards a mortgage, as him being able to stake a claim on it is not a good thing. But you are renting. No harm in him paying "rent" as a lodger/excluded occupier. He needs to pay a higher share of the bills too, perhaps adjusted to accommodate his funding of the car and that you have a child which isn't his, but those deductions are likely to work out quite modest.

Next issue, you could rent somewhere cheaper but he doesn't want to move because he likes it where you are. I bet he does, since it is almost FREE!!! If it is at his insistence then he also ought to cover the difference.

It is absolutely not on that you are struggling and getting into debt while he lines his pockets. I suggest you get all incomings and outgoings on a spreadsheet so the facts are there and do not need to be debated. Then set out two or three proposals of how things could work more fairly:

1. He pays a higher/fairer split of rent/bills.
2. You keep things as they are but he pays half the "savings" into an account for you.
3. You move to a cheaper place if he doesn't like 2 or 3.

He can weigh it all up and THEN the money talk is much simpler.

Yes he may go for option 4 and leave, taking the car and savings but (a) that seems unlikely as he'd still be getting a sweet deal with options 1-3 and (b) if he did you could then downsize to cheaper accommodation.

Savings include inheritance money which I wouldn’t dream of trying to have.

Why ? Also, what does trying to have mean ? It's all part of the same pot for buying a house with isn't it ?

My husband and I have inherited money in the last 12 months. I describe it as savings. He described what I got as your inheritance money. I countered that by saying, 'our savings.' I even said, 'you make it sound like I'm not sharing it. Can we describe it as savings.' We have and it's in a joint account which we both have access to.

But the savings since living together do seem really unfair

So if he walked away tomorrow, he would take all his savings and the car and you'd be in debt with no savings?

You haven’t been ‘taken for a ride’ or ripped off. You both set up the financial side badly when he moved in, and as he had no money worries and it was to his advantage, he never thought much about it, or possibly thought it will balance out when you buy a property together. Which it may well do.

(Also, if he bought the car and it’s in his name then it is simply his car which he lets you use freely. A car can’t be jointly owned, unlike a house.)

I think you need to calm down (and step away from Mumsnet outrage / stirring) before you talk about this. No one likes talking about money, so put it in an email and tell him that the fnances need sorting out so you sent him the data to look over and then let’s chat. Much easier for him to absorb the facts that way. Then in the email, list all monthly outgoings, what you pay and what he pays, and at the end write that you’ve realised you can’t afford to keep paying the majority of rent and taxes etc so can you just go 50:50 on everything? And say in the email that if 50:50 doesn’t work for him then maybe you should all look for a cheaper rental.

This conversation can go in one of two directions:

1. Towards a closer relationship with more joint finances and a joint property purchase financed mostly by him, or
2. A row about you paying more than him despite him being higher income. This row is unlikely to put him in the mood for joint house shopping.

Manage the conversation carefully and calmly OP.

If you end up buying a house together, you need to be able to discuss money effectively. So best to get a framework in place now. I'd have a backup plan for replacing the car too.

Does he know that you're borrowing money?

Time for a very honest conversation. At best he's thoughtless, at worst he's a miser. Neither of which are remotely attractive qualities.

But the savings since living together do seem really unfair

Tell HIM that. I don't care that 'he hates money talk' it's time to fucking grow up and have an adult discussion about finance.

He's got savings while you live off your overdraft which you're having to increase. What utter bollocks. He might as well be living in your spare room, it doesn't sound like much of a relationship to me.

Stop being so timid. He's walking all over you. Oh and you being worried about the car because he owns it tells me a lot too.

If he goes, the car goes as it's his. No wonder you're screwed. You've subsidised him, thank you very much. You could have purchased your own car by now. Again, not much of a relationship if the car is not considered joint property. Could you offer to buy the car from him ? Basically, would he let you have it for a tenner as part of what he owes you ?

No discussion about getting married, I suppose either. Proposal offered/accepted ? No ? Thought not.

A car can’t be jointly owned, unlike a house

Not in law, no. However, why isn't considered to be a joint asset of the relationship ?

Even now, my husband corrects me when I call our car, 'my car.' I accept this is a fault and I call it, 'the car.'

Are you the registered keeper of the car or is it in his name?

I’d say he has 3 choices - he doesn’t like to talk about money so if he really doesn’t want to but is a fair person you can just swap everything you pay for.
Or, you can sit down and work it all out.
Or, if he won’t do either he thinks you’re a total mug and you should end it.

I’m not sure you are being taken for a complete ride. After all you have said you are the higher earner here.

You don’t seem to have a great handle on the household expenses and neither does he. But you have confirmed you earn more than him. You should also be receiving child benefit and CMS. Do you have this additional income?

The responsibility for paying for your child sits with you and the father. If you want him to pick up the financial responsibility then you need to ask for that and see if he is willing to do it. But it sounds like you agreed to live together on a 1/3 to 2/3 basis. Why was that?

As it stands he should probably pay a bit more for the food. The car contribution should be enough to offset that unless you are spending daft amounts on food every month.

Basically he is able to save because he doesn’t have a child and you do. It’s all very well people saying you are a traditional family unit. But a lot of couples and household units don’t live like that. What have you decided and is he aware of how you see things. Does he agree.

It's difficult to tell without you putting all the figures on here. Put all your income and expenses in a spreadsheet. You absolutely shouldn't be getting into debt while your partner saves though. Do you receive maintenance from your ex?

As you won't put him on the tenancy that's an insecurity for him, just like the savings being in his name are an insecurity for you. Difficult to put a monetary value on that, but you also need an extra bedroom for your child, so both factors that suggest you should be paying more than half of the rent.