Living with narcissistic DH

[SuperbFoolish]

So, I've finally figured it all out and can see my DH for who he is. After years of gas lighting, manipulation, cheating, baiting, love bombing, I've realised what's going on and why I've never been happy with him.

My relatives, everyone, thinks he's a great guy, and he puts on such an act when we're around other people, that they don't have any reason to think otherwise. You've got such a great husband' You're the perfect couple' He's such a wonderful dad' and I've been left feeling mean and selfish inside for ever even thinking badly about him. I've never said a word to anyone.

Of course I want to divorce him, but we have two kids. He is a good, attentive dad who does his fair share of all household stuff and childcare. He reads bedtime stories, builds legos, makes pancakes for breakfast, cleans poo off the floor, mops up sick and all the rest. Can't complain.

But.. He has a nasty streak with the kids too. Overly critical, devalues, doesnt respect their feelings, punishes too harshly.. But because he is so great on the outside no one would ever believe me he's this nasty person. He would get 50% custody, and I can't do that. At least when he's here in the house I can jump in and stop the situation if it goes too far, or talk things through with the kids and console them.

Anyone else Bern in this situation? How do I live with him. Even this past week I've spotted his effort to manipulate me in every single conversation we've had, and I've called him up on them. He hates it. Shouts at me that I'm arrogant, on my high horse, think that I'm better than him..

He's a very clever narcissist. Goes out of his way to help others, shows gratitude, polite, well spoken. But with me he uses my vulnerabilities against me when it suits him, lies, ridicules my interests and devalues them. I'm studying a masters degree and it gets called 'a vanity project'. Outward support. Inward shit..

Just an example from past week..

Me: dinner is ready! Everyone, dinner is ready (he doesn't come downstairs, I eat with dc) Whilst I'm still eating he comes down and says: why didn't you say dinner was ready. I said I did. He says No, you didn't. I say he mustn't have heard me then (sometimes ignores me on purpose, so never know). I say I did say that, so don't question my reality and make out as if I'm lying. He says I don't think you called me down. You just didn't want me to join you for dinner. I say, don't play mind games with me. I won't be manipulated. My truth is my truth. I called you, but you mustn't have heard me then. He explodes and tells me I think I'm better than him. On my high horse etc..

Currently in this situation 😭 except I get no help with housework or the kids. He hates when they cry or whine, they're 18 months and 3 months!

As a child of divorced parents I can't bring myself to leave but am starting to worry I'll hurt my kids more in the long run 😣

Oh @Mommabear20 that's so hard. Like pp have wisely said, leave when /if it suits you and plan it well to protect your kids.

The dinner example is worrying @SuperbFoolish
Calling for dinner is such an everyday kind of thing that to have such grief over that must be taking its toll on you.
Do you have to literally go and collect him from wherever he is in future? They just keep pushing and pushing until you're either run ragged or you're reduced to a shell of a person with not much to say.

@Feelingparanoid it's relentless. It's every conversation we have really. I was looking at my work rota and trying to figure out how much extra childcare we need and how much it's going to cost, and he comes back to me with: it's not like I'm going out there to have fun!
So, these things come out of the blue. I gave to be very 'on' to call them out. I said that's a very random comment to make. Can you explain? And he was never mind. Nim just stressed out or something like that.. It non-stip

Completely identify with the having to be very 'on' to call them out. I spent many years being compliant without really realising that's what I was doing. When the shit hit the fan, when he couldn't hide who he truly was any more, it felt like I had to shift up about ten gears in a day, and there were plenty of times when I couldn't manage to maintain that being 'on'. It's exhausting, I really feel for you. Even the simplest of things you say, even lighthearted things you say, can be destroyed in an instance and you end up feeling lost, confused, like shit. Try to remember it's him and try to remain true to yourself.

@coodawoodashooda thanks. Painful. Many have had much worse.

OP re your update. My advice is this :
Don't analyse what IS there (it's all about HIS feelings isn't it?)
Look for the absences. What doesn't he say? Hint: I'm sorry, I hear you, how are you feeling, are the kids ok etc etc

We tend to assume everyone operates similarly. The truth is some people are literally the only person in their world.

Reading this has just made me see my relationship with my dad in a new light. Suddenly a lot makes sense and I don’t feel so responsible for his outbursts. He also lost interest in me around age 11 and became very shouty and sweary (even threatening to leave) when he didn’t get his own way. Everyone finds him so charming, but these days he turns every conversation to be about him and I can see other people noticing it. I just need him to have friends so I’m not responsible for him all the time. Considering he might be a narcissist, instead of someone who needs endless grace and patience because their own dad was an abuser, that thought gives me some power I didn’t know I didn’t have. I’m really sorry to read of all the people partnered to men like this. I hope you are ok and work out what you need to to be safe and thrive. Thank you for sharing your experiences and insight

@littlejalapeno welcome to the club!
Sadly these things do tend to go down through the generations.
Use the internet to research the subject (knowledge is power) and, of course, MN for support.

You’re wasting your time analysing and pondering this fuckwits drivel. Who cares what he says. Grey rock him until you get the divorce ball rolling, let everyone know about him fucking prostitutes, don’t make your kids continue to grow up in this hellish environment, it’s so damaging for them. Listen to the posters here who’ve been made to endure the same shit childhood.

I’ve been in your shoes although thankfully not married and no kids. What I wanted to add was when the relationship finally ended for good, everyone told me they’d seen though his good guy act. Turns out he had fooled no one. Even people I only knew to say hi to. So not as clever as he thought.

The sabotage thing rang a bell with me too. Once I was late to a work meeting as a trainee and it was key to my development. He said he couldn’t give me a lift so I got the bus. I then saw his car drive past me on the bus. Just one of many examples of him trying to make me fail.

It didn’t work. 10 years on I’m senior in my field earning 6 figures and married to a wonderful, supportive man.

You got this!

He would definitely want 50/50 with the kids. He's such a great dad on the outside, and I do believe he genuinely cares for them. It's just that his caring doesn't include deep feelings and putting away your own emotions in favour of your child's. It's difficult to explain.

So was my ex, always did the bed time routine although he didn’t start fighting like mad for 50/50 until he realised he didn’t need to pay any maintenance if he got 50% of the nights even when he earned 7 times my salary.

He was a very involved dad for half of DS life, but as soon as having a kid didn’t fit with his new single man life contact started to fizzle up until it stopped altogether 2 years later. That’s the thing with Narcissists, it is all on their terms, so whether you stay or leave, he will ignore/cheat/neglect/dump you all like a hot potato when you no longer fit on his plans.

Sorry the concern about what other people think was a thing too. The first time mine left to punish me back into line as I know now, I was broken. My friends let me stay with them for a few days. When he came back, all he cared about was whether I’d told them he’d left, not how much he’d hurt me that I needed looking after.

@SuperbFoolish, been there...however I didn't know about narcissism until I left. Knowing is important as you can mitigate the damage they will try to inflict during a divorce.

I left when I realised that by staying my relationship with the dc would be damaged.. My dc see their dad but they know he isn't normal and they welcome the constrast I provide. They are definitely better off for us separating, as life with me allows them to decompress. After time with their Dad they feel drained.. much like you do now.

ExH was similar, involved dad unless it was work or his hobbies. Everyone thought he was Mr Nice guy but behind closed doors he showed contempt for me. It was also around secondary school age that he started to feel rejected by the dc and blamed me. I was "deliberately alienating" him if they no longer ran to the door to greet him.

Ex genuinely felt his feelings, he felt belittled if his needs didn't dominate, he felt controled if asked to help with something. These feeling were real to him. It was later explained to me that a personality disorder is akin to a faulty mirror in the brain as it reflects a different perspective than reality. They also need attention (like oxgyen) which they get through positive or negative interactions. Your reactions even in conflict offer him that attention. It's why grey rock is recommended as there is no point attempting to alter his thinking.

The advice about planning to leave is essential..research as much as you can. Elinor Greenberg and Dr Ramani are excellent resources.

A narcissist will usually leave but not before they have lined up a replacement. In my case the OW was very well hidden but it was obvious when she appeared that she had been in the background. She was a friends wife so I wish her well but know there isn't a happy ending.

To maintain a family man image you will be smeared - It may already be happening.

OP, as he has created this a wonderful man persona, I would be tempted to record him when he is being vile to your or the kids. I would then save to a cloud somewhere and just keep adding to the file that he is abusive and gaslighting. Do not tell him you are doing this. This is evidence should you need it.

When he makes a song and dance over nothing, such as the calling for dinner I would not even engage with him. My response would be “whatever, you must be right.” Agree with him but in a dismissive way and refuse to be drawn in. Even if he is making you feel mad do not engage with him. He wants a reaction and the he can turn the tables on to you when he has goaded you into losing your temper. Do not allow this to happen.

I would continue to call him out every time he is horrible to the children and I would also start that running away fund.

Lastly, clear your history all of the time and leave no trace of what you have read and researched, including MN.

You will leave him when you are in a position to, at the moment though, build yourself up to it and see if you can ‘get your ducks in a row.’

Still following this thread, and I'm just flabberghasted by how many men are like this - when it's such a strange and cruel way to be.

@yellowpigeons, I'm also amazed at the amount of people who are personality disordered. I'm not sure if it's just men as there are unfortunately many personality disordered women who become mothers - Ex's mother was unbelievably cruel to her children and his father was an enabler. The end result was narcisstic children although genetics is also likely to play a part.

@NowEvenBetter it's essential in my opinion to analyse everything so that I know and understand who and what I'm dealing with. I'm new to this. Its only been a week since the penny dropped. I need to build myself up quietly, and find a way out safely however long that might take.
The worst would be I think, to just make a scene and leave. He won't. So I have to be clever. More clever than him.

@Tillysfad I know it's fucking true, I lived it. My parents were two people who obviously didn't like each, let alone love each other, pretending we were a happy family for 20 sodding years. The only time it actually improved was when my father was working abroad. I used to dread him coming home because the pretence would start again. My parents thought their children were all deaf, dumb and blind and we didn't notice. Of course we fucking did. I actually think less of my mother for making us put up with his shit and letting him ruin our childhoods.

@NowEvenBetter Amen.

To anyone who wants to know a little bit more on the subject I highly recommend these two books:

'The Narcissist's Playbook: How to Identify, Disarm, and Protect Yourself from Narcissists, Sociopaths, Psychopaths, and Other Types of Manipulative and Abusive People' by Diana Morningstar, and

'The covert passive-aggressive narcisst - recognising the traits and finding healing after hidden abuse' by Debbie Mirza.

I'm finishing reading the second one. Brilliant books. A a lot of knowledge and 'aha moments' when reading.

Great advice above.

One suggestion is to talk to your GP, mention the prostitutes and his emotional abuse of both you and the children.

Create a paper trail.

Definitely get any proof that you can.

Speaking to womens aid would be wise too.

Ugh, I recognised my own relationship in your OP. It's so painful when everyone else thinks you're OH is the loveliest person in the world and you're so lucky. It makes it all feel even worse, because not only do you have to deal with leaving but you have no support or sympathy because everyone sees you as the mean one.

You obviously need to get out so maybe start planning it now? No hurry but just getting your ducks in a row as another pp did.

@CecilieRose

Ugh, I recognised my own relationship in your OP. It's so painful when everyone else thinks you're OH is the loveliest person in the world and you're so lucky. It makes it all feel even worse, because not only do you have to deal with leaving but you have no support or sympathy because everyone sees you as the mean one.

You obviously need to get out so maybe start planning it now? No hurry but just getting your ducks in a row as another pp did.

Yes. I agree. Im years on from leaving and i still find this hard. Does anyone have good coping strategies for when friends and family defend the narc?

A child’s opinion of which parent they want to be with (and for how long) is taken into account from the age of 10.

I discovered that if one of my children refused to go to their father’s, the other also wouldn’t go as it was so boring. They used to say they were ill very often then make a sudden recovery!

Mine stopped going completely at 14. The ex was so annoyed by this that, in 4 years, he hasn’t made contact at all.

You need to make a diary of every event when you are blamed/shamed/gaslighted and seek proper legal advice. You won’t have to accept 50/50 if it’s someone that it’s simply impossible to coparent with.

Everyone had seen through my ex's narcissistic game it transpired after I left. The only person not on "my side" is his foul mother.

Just managed to finalise the divorce after 3.5 years of his arsing about.

He's still playing the poor me card to anyone that will listen & whining on about how he wanted to grow old with me. Even our now adult son thinks he's deluded.