Living with narcissistic DH

[SuperbFoolish]

So, I've finally figured it all out and can see my DH for who he is. After years of gas lighting, manipulation, cheating, baiting, love bombing, I've realised what's going on and why I've never been happy with him.

My relatives, everyone, thinks he's a great guy, and he puts on such an act when we're around other people, that they don't have any reason to think otherwise. You've got such a great husband' You're the perfect couple' He's such a wonderful dad' and I've been left feeling mean and selfish inside for ever even thinking badly about him. I've never said a word to anyone.

Of course I want to divorce him, but we have two kids. He is a good, attentive dad who does his fair share of all household stuff and childcare. He reads bedtime stories, builds legos, makes pancakes for breakfast, cleans poo off the floor, mops up sick and all the rest. Can't complain.

But.. He has a nasty streak with the kids too. Overly critical, devalues, doesnt respect their feelings, punishes too harshly.. But because he is so great on the outside no one would ever believe me he's this nasty person. He would get 50% custody, and I can't do that. At least when he's here in the house I can jump in and stop the situation if it goes too far, or talk things through with the kids and console them.

Anyone else Bern in this situation? How do I live with him. Even this past week I've spotted his effort to manipulate me in every single conversation we've had, and I've called him up on them. He hates it. Shouts at me that I'm arrogant, on my high horse, think that I'm better than him..

He's a very clever narcissist. Goes out of his way to help others, shows gratitude, polite, well spoken. But with me he uses my vulnerabilities against me when it suits him, lies, ridicules my interests and devalues them. I'm studying a masters degree and it gets called 'a vanity project'. Outward support. Inward shit..

@yellowpigeons I've listened to a lot of YouTube stuff about unhealthy relationships, and came to a realisation that mine might be a narcissistic relationship. It's so hard to put your finger on it, when you're living it, and your reality doesn't seem to match what others see. Like you, I'm starting to realise, that this is not a marriage at all.
I've been made to feel selfish, mean, cold, controlling, and I think I have been. I feel like a puppet who's being played with.
My mother, I believe is a covert narcissist. It was my job as a child to talk my dad into stopping drinking. As if I had any control, or influence, but it was a burden put on me.
And when I met my dh, he love bombed me like I'd never experienced before, and completely fell for it. For years. With the compliments come the put downs.. It really is a roller coaster.
Last night I asked him about a way he'd spoken to ds, and his reaction was to decide he wants to move out. I said OK. Calmly. But he won't. Its just an empty threat. He won't leave.

@SuperbFoolish I'm living your life. I had the love bombing, intense connection or so I thought. It turned out all to be fake. There are moments, though, where it's so close to being real and normal that it is hard to spot.

I too have been told I'm neurotic, controlling, micromanaging, hypercritical all when I've started chats that would have, in a normal relationship, got us to know each other more closely. He can't tolerate any criticism or disagreement. A real egomaniac. But also a coward and plays the hurt little boy sometimes. Even his wounded voice/routine is so loud and inconsiderate of the kids.

Sometimes I think it's so close to normal I could stay and shield the kids and just about make it work. But the feeling of shock that none of it was what you thought, that your emotions/inner self has not been connected with once despite all your needs for it is overwhelming.

Mine also says he'll move out on a whim.

And I was just going to add that I've opened up to a few friends and family that I'm not happy and that things are bad, but I can tell they just think things are newly bad in a normal way, in the sense of a rough patch or falling out that happens in other relationships, not the emptiness and almost madness that comes from realising it's all a sort of fake game. It's a lonely feeling.

@yellowpigeons I'm so sorry you're living through this also. It's a hard place to be. My marriage and family life also seems so normal on the outside, that it's hard to realise that it's not all that.
What made the penny drop for me was to go through old photos of our time together, and for every single photo there is a memory of a fight, bad feeling,disagreement, not getting on etc.. I realised its all fake. We look so good on paper, but it's all rotten inside 😔

@GrandmasCat

Yep. I decided to leave him, I knew I wouldn’t get any support because he was such a “nice husband and wonderful parent” “. He wasn’t, he may have made coffee for me every morning, brought me flowers regularly and played with DS, but he was an abusive bully to DS throughout the day and a selfish guy who only thought about himself and abused me in private.

I decided to follow some wise advice from a friend: You leave, but leave when it suits YOU.

So I spent 3 years preparing my exit, building my financial independence, putting together a “get the hell out of here fund” and left when I was ready and the time was right.

I saw those last three years living with him as a scholarship, where he paid to keep a roof over our heads and put food on the table while I was getting ready to leave. Having this perspective and the goal to leave kept me sane, as I could see the light at the end of the tunnel with every bit of independence I built.

Obviously, with a narcissist, the problems won’t stop even if you split but, as long as you don’t bring their competitive side out and pretend to be boring he will leave you alone enough to rebuild a nice life for yourself and the kids. So yes, continue with your “vanity project”, it is part of a good preparation that will come handy in your new life without him.

This. I have done the same. It took a few years, women's aid and therapy to finally break free.

But the biggest mistake I've made was to move out with DS. Ex then used the argument 'Lena isn't acting in the best interests of DS as she wanted him removed from his superb family home, school and friends'. DS was 9 at the time and I moved 3 miles away. Nobody cared there was abuse, women's aid and police involved. I have lost 2 years lasting court battle about the residence. Initial order stated I was to have DS eow because apparently it was in his best interest living full time with abuser. Over 2 years ex managed to drag the court proceedings for as long as he could, he brainwashed DS and trained him how to bully and abuse others, especially me. Now DS is 11 and doesn't want to hear about staying overnight with me. He now has a daddy he has never had before (ex couldn't care less about DS when we were together) and blames me for braking up the family and trying to take him away from dad.

Leaving was the best thing I have done but I have had to pay the highest price for the freedom. Please, please, learn from this. Leave him, but plan it better than I did. And yes, I was 100% certain ex wouldn't want to see DS even 50/50 because he was never interested in him, he always seen DS as a burden and inconvenience, they never had a loving close bond. He suddenly wanted a full custody when he figured out he can use this as a revenge. Because, as he said, ' I was not allowed to leave '.

@Lena007 That sounds unbearable, you must be so strong. I am in awe at your strength and at the depths of your husband's malice.

I posted my own thread a few days ago of an incident between my P and eldest DC and totally relate to this. I too have shared the odd snippet to others only to come away feeling like they see it as a rough patch that can be worked through. My P is currently walking around looking sad and confused and it's just so hard. I hope you manage to get done what you need to and enjoy the break from your DH xx

@Lena007 Oh, that's awful! I can't even imagine what you've been through. This exactly is my worst nightmare. I know my dh won't let the kids just 'go' and I am fully aware that if I leave, it would be used against me.
Thank you for sharing your story. If its any consolation, myself and others can learn from it. I will need to plan everything carefully. I am financially stable, although not rich, but could manage without him if he moved out tomorrow. But he won't, and that's the thing. I also rely on him for childcare. I work shifts and out of the house all random hours, so they would need to stay with dad quite a bit. I'm trying to change this dynamic too by getting a higher degree and changing jobs. I'm sure that's why he doesn't support it.

When you say the children are upset about daddy’s work trip, are you sure they aren’t playing a ‘part’? Children can realise quite early what is expected of them and act accordingly. How would he be if they didn’t react this way? If you know he’d be intolerable, then they may just be behaving the way they have been conditioned to :(
Of course, children do get upset when a parent has to be away but there may be more going on here.
Just a thought.
I wish you all the best

I certainly think that's true about the children. If you think how it pushes us grown up women to the limit, thinking about these weird empty chambers of non-love & manipulation, all the different realities, then I can see how any glimpse of it is just intolerable and inaccessable to children.

One of mine (young) said 'when dad is looking after me I tell my brain to say yes, but my body says no' :-(

@Neverwrestlewithapig I get your point, but fortunately it's not quite so sinister. If they told dad they don't mind him going away, he'd be OK with that.
He's worked away quite a lot in the past, so we're used to these long absences, and maybe it's because of that I didn't fully understand the big picture for a long time.

He seems to get very irritated by the kids, and when he's having a 'bad day' with the kids playing up, he ultimately blames it on me and the children themselves, rather than take ownership if his feelings. Say, the kids are arguing and I'm getting ready to go to work, I'm getting a very knowing and sarcastic 'have fun at work' as a send-off comment. As in 'you're off and I need to deal with these two, poor me' way..

I might have missed how old your kids are. Narcissists do tend to fall out of love with young children once they grow through the idolising phase into the questioning, less compliant phase.
Things may be peachy now but I think you should bear it in mind. They can be quite nasty, devalue & discard or just lose interest.

@noirchatsdeux ✊

@tobedtoMNandfart they are 6 and 9. He is devaluing, critical, shouts etc.. But also spends hours talking with them about volcanoes, wolves, dinosaurs. Reads bedtime stories, plays football, helps with homework, brushes teeth etc. All normal stuff. He's not thoroughly evil, but between me and him, healthy relationship it ain't.

That sort of man can be very controlling. Just keep an eye on your DC because the control can have effects under the radar which are brought into the light once the DC are adults. Red flags might include the DC having lack of confidence at school or in sports and trying new activities, and withdrawal from family spaces into their bedrooms for instance. You might also notice changes to their personality when he's not around.

He sounds an awful lot like my father - however both my parents are narcissists. My father put on the 'good father' act like yours until my older brother turned 10. He then basically checked out of family life, got a job working aboard, had an affair with someone there within 3 months of leaving us and from then until he finally left for good 11 years later acted like he was a single man.

My mother didn't leave because she liked the lifestyle and didn't want her family seeing past the 'perfect mother' act she put on for them. It was all fake, of course. The minute no one was there to watch she dropped it. She didn't want to work and felt my father owed her financial support for life because she'd had children.

@Feelingparanoid I know he is. Very controlling and manipulating. Plays the victim a lot. Makes me the baddie. So what do I do? I have to leave the kids with him to work, to study.. He won't leave, and I think it would be unwise for me to leave. He would not let the kids go, and there's no concrete proof of his abusiveness. He's buttered up my whole dysfunctional family who think he's great. He makes friends with vulnerable people so that he can help them and they obviously think he's wonderful, adding to his image of being a great guy.

@noirchatsdeux maybe my dh will meet someone on his trip and leave us.. Wishful thinking 😣 He likes his family-man image too much..

Well done on not letting him completely scupper your plans today. But do learn to change that tyre. You'll get a ridiculously disproportionate sense of achievement, not just because you did it, but also because you didn't need him to do it. It's taking away his power little by little.

@tobedtoMNandfart

I've been the child in this scenario if it helps. My M never left for whatever reason. She now hasn't seen me, my husband or 3 kids in about 5 years. So she lost half of her entire family due to her loyalty to my F (his abuse became intolerable and I had to go NC as a last resort). I guess that's what you're risking further down the line. Or he alienates them from you...

Im so sorry that happened to you.

@SuperbFoolish yes you are right, he'll never leave. If he gets to the point where he wants to split up he'll engineer something so that you'll be the one to leave him.
I've been where you are and the only advice I can suggest (if you cannot leave) is to treat it like a marathon and put your DC first as much as possible. Put up with it (I'd say 'endure' it) until such time as you feel you can leave without it adversely affecting your way of life. However, it's a bit like waiting to afford to have children - it you waited, you'd never have children, so perhaps you need to bite the bullet now? Obstacles can be overcome.
Oh, and the description of him helping the vulnerable etc., it's incredible isn't it, how everyone thinks he's such a wonderful man who'll help out anyone. They cannot see that he's not doing it for their benefit, but for his benefit alone!

@tobedtoMNandfart

I might have missed how old your kids are. Narcissists do tend to fall out of love with young children once they grow through the idolising phase into the questioning, less compliant phase. Things may be peachy now but I think you should bear it in mind. They can be quite nasty, devalue & discard or just lose interest.

Absolutely. Around 11 it gets evil.

Sadly my DD said she noticed a change in her relationship with her father round about the time she started secondary school. I think it's to do with the children starting to develop their own personalities and the narc father senses a loss of control over them.

50% of being with their father is still better than 100% of enduring the fallout from their parents living a lie and pretending

It's convenient to think that. In extreme situations I'm sure it's true. But as a blunt statement of fact it's ridiculous.

Unfortunately this is exactly the kind of man who might really want as much residency as possible. Posters reassuring the OP that he wouldn't are again conveniently rearranging truth so the OP will leave, not stating a fact.

I don't know about the ethics of staying or going. It's probably impossible to tell unless you're in the situation, seeing what the children are seeing. Personally, it sounds like a miserable set up for the op yet her children are well served by having her there is he really is too harsh. Half their lives is a long time. That's not EOW. That's as long as they're with her. And it doesn't sound like their lives are unpleasant or difficult now. Just.... It's so hard on the op.

He's just called me to say how confused he is with me, that he is in emotional pain and feels like he doesnt know which way is up and which is down.
My criticism of him makes him feel so raw (I asked him about the way he had shouted at the kids yesterday) and he can't be questioned the whole time how he talks, reacts or says things (I've been calling out all his attempts to manipulate me in the past few days.).
So what is this now? He genuinely seems distraught. This is how I'm played with. Every conversation seems to be loaded with some sort of agenda. I think he is actually feeling quite confused and bad now because I keep on calling him out..