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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Heads a mess. Am I abusive?

99 replies

Isitactuallyme2021 · 18/10/2021 18:36

I've nc for this but have posted before.
Dh and I sperated earlier in the year after another one of his outbursts about what a terrible person I am.
He said a few times he didn't want to go, but I don't think he wanted to give up his home life, not "me" if that makes sense.
We have had a pretty up and down relationship since then. He has made some noise about wanting to work things out but has continued to place all blame at my door, insult me and call me some pretty nasty things.
I have gone round and round in circles trying to explain why I became distant from him and how his words and actions have affected me.
The thing that's getting me is he is more and more frequently telling me what an abusive, controlling, gaslighting and manipulative person I am, particularly if I do something he doesn't like or try to get him to be accountable.
He never acknowledges at all how he has made me feel over the years, just all about what I have done to him.
It's really getting me down.
He is very upset that I didn't invite him on a day out over the weekend with our dc. He rarely has time for us as is always doing other things but as this weekend he was free, wanted to spend it with us.
I have been working hard on my mental health after the last time I let my guard down around him a few weeks ago he really hurt me.
This has resulted again in alot of name calling and using phrases that I have to him, but with him as the one who is feeling that way.
Today he has messaged me to say that my mental torture has affected him so badly that he has contemplated suicide.
I feel absolutely awful that I have made him feel that way.
I have since seen him and he wouldn't even look at me. I have offered him kindness and support but he seems very angry with me, which if he feels abused I guess is understandable.
What do I do now though? Has anyone been through similar?

OP posts:
justthecat · 18/10/2021 18:41

Pile of crap, I relate to a lot of it.he doesn’t like you having fun without him involved

ponkydonkey · 18/10/2021 18:42

Yes my ex told me that just before I discovered he had 100k debts and some Albanians were after him and knew where lived

CorrBlimeyGG · 18/10/2021 18:46

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OverweightPidgeon · 18/10/2021 18:46

He’s not going to kill himself, trust me .

Get yourself onto the Freedom programme and get away from him.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 18/10/2021 18:47

He is the one gaslighting and being abusive.

You need some proper distance from him. He can take the DC out by himself. He doesn't get invited to 'family days out' anymore just because he has a day 'free'.

Stop torturing yourself. I really would recommend seeing a counsellor or getting some mental health support though, to help you separate all the strands involved in this and work out how to deal with them without blaming yourself (which is exactly what he wants you to do).

If he's seriously threatening suicide, tell him you are calling 999 and sending an ambulance and the police to his address.

Apart from that, just don't engage apart from about DC. You need to sort out proper access (on a regular basis) and CMS.

Stop letting him fuck with your head. You can do this.

Mabelface · 18/10/2021 18:47

It's all about control, as in him still controlling you. Forget having him back and reduce communication to just about the children.

DutifulDaughterWifeMother · 18/10/2021 18:48

Sounds more like he is transferring all the blame onto you if I’m honest. He is doing all the gaslighting! A lot of posters talk about the Freedom Programme pls have a look at that & contact Womens Aid

LalalalalalaLand123 · 18/10/2021 18:53

From what you describe, HE sounds like the emotionally abusive, gaslighting one. But it's difficult as we dont know all the details. Please refer him to the Samaritans.

Original poster
Isitactuallyme2021 · 18/10/2021 18:58

I have been having counselling since before he left but it seems like every time I feel abit stronger he throws a curveball in and knocks me back again.
This has really thrown me today.

He says says I am emotionally abusive as I keep him at arms length and don't let him close to me.

I have tried to explain to him that it is hard to be vulnerable and emotionally close to someone who doesn't seem to like you very much 😥
I arranged couples counselling for us last year but he said it was all my mental health issues (he still says that now as I have suffered with anxiety, not bad enough to stop me functioning though) so it was pointless him continuing to go.
The way he sees it is that he lashes out because I have withdrawn.
I said we should seperate because I couldn't listen to anymore ranting about what a shit person I am and how unhappy I make him.
I'm just feeling really rubbish about it all again tonight.
I don't know whether to try and comfort him before he leaves, but doubt he would be accepting of it anyway to be honest.

OP posts:
justthecat · 18/10/2021 19:05

Stop talking to him!! The longer you talk the longer he reels you in.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 18/10/2021 19:07

Great thank you are having counselling.

it seems like every time I feel abit stronger he throws a curveball in and knocks me back again

That's because he can see you getting stronger and wants to bring you back 'in line' again.

He says says I am emotionally abusive as I keep him at arms length and don't let him close to me.

Why would you? You have SPLIT UP. What bit of this doesn't he understand. Is he having any counselling?

The way he sees it is that he lashes out because I have withdrawn.

No he's lashing out to punish you for getting on with your life.

Please talk to your counsellor about this.

I don't know whether to try and comfort him before he leaves

Absolutely DO NOT do this. This is way of controlling you still.

Original poster
Isitactuallyme2021 · 18/10/2021 19:09

No he's saying he lashed out when we were together because I had distanced myself.
He crossed some lines in terms of behaviour and I must admit I did pull back emotionally.
That's the part he sees as abusive.

OP posts:
CatWarbler · 18/10/2021 19:12

If you have separated from him, but he's following you around saying you are abusing him, then he is the abuser.

CatWarbler · 18/10/2021 19:13

I'd pull back if my husband was being a knob, too!

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 18/10/2021 19:13

You need to recognise that you withdrew because HE was being abusive . Now he is blaming you for it.

Please disengage from him. Stop talking to him. Stop feeling guilty about it. Arrange proper access for the kids and just leave the rest of it behind you or he'll be controlling you and your emotions forever.

wombatspoopcubes · 18/10/2021 19:18

You are separated. From now on only have contact with him via email. Only answer about the children or whatever business you need to do to separate. Do not, ever, answer or say anything about anything else. Let him know this.

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 18/10/2021 19:27

Withdrawing from someone who has hurt you is not abuse.

Punishing someone who has displeased you with the silent treatment can be an abusers tactic but it doesn't sound like that is what you are describing?

Generally withdrawing emotionally, becoming emotionally detached is very common self defensive behaviour in victims of abuse,

You need to stop talking to this man, cut ties where you can, and move on.

I escaped my abuser and the last thing I wanted to do was to have any contact with him, let alone talk to him about what he had done. I would suggest that his behaviour is not consistent with his claims.

The freedom course is eye opening and really good.

CheekyHobson · 18/10/2021 20:00

I think you've done the right thing in separating. My guess is that his anger appears when he loses his ability to control situations through a series of tricks that have worked for him in the past. The way the series of tricks goes is this.

  1. He feels bad for some reason in the context of your relationship. (You've gone out for the day with the children and he feels left out, scared that you enjoy yourself more without him around)
  2. He blames his bad feeling on you (tells you he was free and that you "should" have invited him. This is a false premise; you've separated and you do not owe him a relationship, but he is acting as though you do.)
  3. He demands that you change your behaviour so that he won't risk feeling this bad feeling again or apologise for 'causing' his bad feeling (ie take responsibility for 'making' it occur, meaning you are responsible for making it go away/fixing it).

There are two false assumptions to watch out for here.

  1. What he wants is more important than what you want. He wanted you to invite him. You did not want to invite him. When he says you 'should' have invited him, it rests on the assumption that his desire is more valid than yours, but this is not true. BOTH of you are allowed whatever you want, but wanting something in itself does not produce an entitlement to have it. If he wants to go with you but you want to go alone, he can ask to come, but he can't insist you are wrong not to invite him.
  1. You cause his feelings. When you went out without him, he experienced feelings of loneliness, fear, deprivation, resentment because he was bored that day etc. Obviously these are not comfortable feelings and he doesn't like them. So he tries to avoid them in future by telling you that you were wrong for going out without him. But this rests on the false idea that his feelings were an inevitable/natural outcome of hearing you went out without him. They're not. Other possibilities exist. If he'd been tired after a long week at work, for example, he might not have felt like going on a day out, and wouldn't have reacted the same way. Or if he'd had plans with friends, he wouldn't have cared if you were out with the kids. Understanding that a range of possibilities exists means you can recognise that you didn't actually 'cause' his particular feelings but they came from a mix of circumstances, his own thoughts, etc that you are not in control of and therefore not responsible for.

Your husband's behaviour is based in unhealthy thinking and assumptions. A healthier response to hearing you went out without him, which recognises that both of you have valid desires and also that he's responsible for managing his own bad feelings, would have sounded more like this: "Oh. I wasn't doing anything on Saturday and was pretty bored. I would have enjoyed going out with you and the kids. I'm disappointed I missed out but obviously I can't change the past now. Would you be willing to consider inviting me along if you're planning another day out soon?"

Original poster
Isitactuallyme2021 · 18/10/2021 20:26

I think maybe I have caused some of this by being hopeful that he would change and we could work things out.
I just wanted him to respect me and see me as an equal, maybe even consider me generally but he just doesn't.
But that's possibly why he feels I'm abusive in that I have tried to remain amicable.

Every time I've let him in though he has hurt me. I guess that probably makes me look like I'm blowing hot and cold.
I do try and be honest about my feelings, but he doesn't listen as he's too busy making everything my fault.
I just really hope he's ok and I really am sorry that I have made him feel this way.

OP posts:
purplebatbear · 18/10/2021 21:02

You haven't made him feel this way. He has but he's trying to shift his issues onto you.

NotPersephone · 18/10/2021 21:06

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BewareTheBeardedDragon · 18/10/2021 21:06

He is either unable or unwilling to take responsibility for his own behaviour and therefore blames you for pulling back when HE hurts you. This is not your fault and you haven't made him feel any way - his own behaviour has.

Look up DARVO. It's a very common (and sadly effective) tactic.

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 18/10/2021 21:08

Obv strangers on the Internet do not know your situation but nothing you have said makes it sound like you are abusive.

Fallagain · 18/10/2021 21:09

You’ve split up so you need to stop discussing your relationship it’s over now. Do you have kids?

Tell him if he is worried about his mental health he needs to speak to his GP. If you are worried he may be a danger to himself then contact the police.

beastlyslumber · 18/10/2021 21:14

You haven't made him feel any way. He is just saying whatever he thinks will make you feel bad and allow him to get your attention. He is not feeling sad or abused. He is feeling pissed off that you have dared to separate from him and he wants to punish you.

Have you discussed this with your counsellor? It sounds like you need to talk to someone who understands the dynamics of abuse and narcissistic abuse. Not all counsellors recognise this and they can make things worse by unwittingly colluding with the gaslighting. There are so many brilliant resources online though, and I second the pp's suggestion of the freedom programme and also the book, why does he do that, by lundy Bancroft.