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Original poster

new trans friend

71 replies

flipflopmop · 11/10/2021 01:51

This is not a hate thread, I am actually asking specifically for advice here.

I've been trying to put myself out there a bit and meet new people. I have met a trans man through another acquaintance and we seem to get on really well and then hit these huge awkward stumbling blocks. I'm wondering if it's my fault basically.

This person is very into using specific terms for their gender, sexuality and romantic life and defining all of that very specifically. Fine.

I personally wouldn't chose to describe myself with these terms. I'm not even sure why, it just feels a bit... not me. If other people want to then good for them. Specifically when it comes to sexuality I have the view (for me) that I'm with who I'm with and that's that.

So because I am with a man this person assumed I was totally straight. Rather than waffle on, here is an abridgement of the awkward conversation (not word for word)

Well, you're straight so you wouldn't understand.
I don't think I ever said that. I used to have a girlfriend.
Oh let me guess in university going through an experimenting phase.
It was after uni. We were engaged.
But, you never said anything about this!
She broke my heart and treated me like shite, it's not something I feel the need to talk about years later.

They then made the point that I should really refer to myself as bisexual or pansexual. I made the point that I never said I was straight to start with. I just said, I have a boyfriend.

It's not something I hide but I don't think banging on about serious exs when you have a partner is really on. Even if I was single, it was a horrid break up, I wouldn't be keen to talk about it really.

The other thing is that they are very keen on describing their gender very exactly. That's fine! I just don't feel the need to. I have what other people have told me is a very male personality and often don't make myself look overly feminine, although I sometimes do. I've also been told this trans man finds that uncomfortable and would rather I defined myself according to the language they use to describe themselves.

I wasn't told this directly, again it was roundabout but I'm trying to condense.

I do like this person and enjoy their company. I just don't want to use these definitions. Personally I think all imposed gender roles are a load of crap and your sexuality is who you fall in love with. I didn't SAY that out of sensitivity to their differing view, I'm just starting to feel a bit like this promising friendship is floundering now.

OP posts:
CherryBlossomWinter · 11/10/2021 01:54

You can describe yourself how you like. If the friendship was that promising you wouldn’t be angsting about it as much. It sounds like hard work. Relax, enjoy, friendships are built on shared joy!

Scbchl · 11/10/2021 01:55

You either need to both respect and accept you have different opinions from each other, as is normal with some subjects in friendship or accept you can't be friends.

KylieKoKo · 11/10/2021 01:56

He sounds very overbearing op. Maybe it's a reaction to prejudice that he's faced as a trans man but that doesn't give him the right to dictate how you describe your own experiences.

LowlyTheWorm · 11/10/2021 01:57

Use yourself and your way of thinking to educate this person that labelling is restrictive and it tries to put people into boxes which are just limiting. You sound fab- them not so much… seem to be obsessed with the labels. And you’re not fitting their specific criteria needs challenged. If they listen to you this could be a real learning curve for them- but I suspect they will know best and feel “literally attacked” by your refusal to describe yourself in their chosen terms. Good luck.

TheWestIsTheBest · 11/10/2021 02:02

They sound very overbearing, I couldn't be bothered with any of that.

foxgoosefinch · 11/10/2021 02:05

It ought to be educational for them to realise that no-one should be assuming anyone else is straight anyway!

I personally couldn’t be putting up with all the obsessive labelling and the insistence that everyone else must believe and adhere to it. It’s one thing to have a set of beliefs, another to impose them on others!

You could explain that’s not how you experience your “identity”, but you have no problem with the way they experience theirs?

You might have to decide if you like your friend enough to carry on with the friendship, and if there’s enough common interests outside of all the identity stuff to enjoy with them despite all that.

Original poster
flipflopmop · 11/10/2021 02:05

@KylieKoKo He says without these terms to define himself he would be dead. I get that it's important to him and I respect that, I just don't want to use them for myself. I mean, do people really need to know I used to have a girlfriend? Why would they care? If someone asks me I'll tell them.

If life had worked out differently and I had married my gf I would just say to people, this is my wife, not I'm gay, bisexual or anything else. I wasn't sure if I'm being obtuse.

OP posts:
foxgoosefinch · 11/10/2021 02:11

He says without these terms to define himself he would be dead.

Gosh I couldn’t really be dealing with that kind of hyperbole. If that was literally the case, this person should be rushed to a psychiatrist immediately. But it sounds more like overstatement, which is also a bit too dramatic and exhausting than I’d want from a friendship.

What terms are these exactly anyway?

Original poster
flipflopmop · 11/10/2021 02:17

@foxgoosefinch

It ought to be educational for them to realise that no-one should be assuming anyone else is straight anyway!

I personally couldn’t be putting up with all the obsessive labelling and the insistence that everyone else must believe and adhere to it. It’s one thing to have a set of beliefs, another to impose them on others!

You could explain that’s not how you experience your “identity”, but you have no problem with the way they experience theirs?

You might have to decide if you like your friend enough to carry on with the friendship, and if there’s enough common interests outside of all the identity stuff to enjoy with them despite all that.

@foxgoosefinch Ach I think it's a no go. I don't want to upset them and I obviously have more than once.
OP posts:
Original poster
flipflopmop · 11/10/2021 02:25

@foxgoosefinch The terms are things like bisexual, pansexual, gay, straight. I don't feel the need to use any personally but obviously I understand why others do. I just feel like it's a bit rude to reference previous relationships when you're currently in one and like I said above, if the person you're with is stood there then isn't the answer kind of just "this person here"?

Gender wise there is male, female, non binary, non conforming (which is what they think I should use) and a few others. Again, totally get why it's important to other people, good for them.

In terms of relationships it's monogamous and polyamory, I'm the former they're the latter. I'm not prudish and have no problem with people mentioning stuff like that, I just don't feel the need to tell people that. I really don't see why they would care to be honest!

OP posts:
Original poster
flipflopmop · 11/10/2021 02:30

@foxgoosefinch They were unwell for a while before I met them, I think they mean if they hadn't found their identity through these terms they would have ended up dead.

That's why I kind of thought well, I could just say I'm a pansexual gender non conforming woman if it means that much to them. I just don't feel that way though.

OP posts:
foxgoosefinch · 11/10/2021 02:34

Completely understand - though I will refer to myself as bisexual when necessary, I’ve lived large parts of my life as a lesbian and/but have also had relationships with men - bisexual never quite fits as a label though. Partly because I don’t really believe in “identity” at all - I have the now rather old fashioned view it seems, that sexuality is fluid and partly about who you meet and happen to love, rather than an inner core of stable identification with a set of ideas!

(Pansexual is still to me a bit of a daft term, we used to all call ourselves that at university years ago as a joke. But it doesn’t mean now what it meant then. I look on agog at the social media bi/pan wars Confused)

LowlyTheWorm · 11/10/2021 02:39

I don't want to upset them and I obviously have more than once.
This is no basis for a friendship though. And they’ve upset you by making you discuss something you don’t talk about (or heartbreaking relationship ending stuff) which may have upset YOU.
Their right to label does not trump your right to live as you please which I far less stifling and damaging than theirs tbh. They sound very much like they think their sexuality and gender choice defines them and are probably deeply and possibly misogynistically jealous of your relaxed and unassuming relationship with yourself and others.

5zeds · 11/10/2021 02:40

I agree there’s no need to know this stuff or declare it, it just is.

Original poster
flipflopmop · 11/10/2021 02:50

@LowlyTheWorm Aww thanks for saying I sound fab. Needed to hear that at the moment!

OP posts:
Original poster
flipflopmop · 11/10/2021 03:05

@foxgoosefinch Oh god social media is a nightmare. It's really pushed people into this echo chamber mentality and not just on this subject.

What did pansexual used to mean?

You just reminded me, when I was at university it was phenomenally uncool to say you were straight. Even the most heterosexual people claimed to be at least "open minded about the possibility" XD So while I do understand the need some people have to be very upfront and open and not be ashamed, that just hasn't been my experience in life.

OP posts:
foxgoosefinch · 11/10/2021 03:22

Pansexual was originally a bit of a 70s hippie term to describe basically being bisexual but in an alternative, yogic sort of way Grin

When I was at university it was used to describe a kind of non-identity based sexual orientation, ie you’re attracted to the person not their sex. But with a nod to it being a bit of a hippie joke. Certainly didn’t use it seriously as an actual identity, it was associated with tantra and joss sticks and 70s pop stars!

Nowadays the distinction seems to be bi = attracted to men and women, pan = attracted to everyone of all the many genders and identities. So the pan people accuse the bis of being transphobic; and the bis accuse the pans of the same. Great fallings out seem to result.

IndecentCakes · 11/10/2021 03:34

I think we know the same person, ha! I don't think it's so much a trans thing specifically, though, through certain circles I've met quite a few lovely, good-humoured trans men who never really mention these 'issues' and just get on with life as it is.

Aquamarine1029 · 11/10/2021 03:46

This person is no friend of yours. Hard work, condescending, and an insufferable bore.

Shoxfordian · 11/10/2021 05:31

He shouldn’t be trying to define or label you as I’m sure he wouldn’t like someone doing the same to him.

Sexytimeusername · 11/10/2021 05:58

Does your new friend refer to themself as a "trans man"? Just interested as you've used "they/them" throughout your posts which i assume is their preference.

Personally I'd happily chuck gendered pronouns and identities out the window - we stopped gendering nouns and verbs in English centuries ago so it's a bit illogical hanging onto pronouns, imo. Maybe we'll get to that point in a few more centuries. For now, I'll respect people's right to pick their own labels, but I won't allow anyone to tell me what labels I "should" be using. (Also I don't think there's a term yet that indicates "I'll fuck any adult human as long as they can afford me" - any votes for "paysexual"?)

Pemmican · 11/10/2021 06:06

Well, he's certainly nailed male entitlement and mansplaining.

I'd let this friendship wither and die if I were you.

eurochick · 11/10/2021 06:06

My guess is they want you to be straight to validate their gender identity.

Nightbringer · 11/10/2021 06:07

I thought the whole point of these labels was that it was about indetifying how you feel comfortable?

I have to say, I find it quite sinister that they say understanding and using their own labels, for themselves saved their lives......but you must use labels the assign to you. You have to fit in a box that they say. But they are allowed to define themselves?

You have no obligation to talk about your sexuality or past exs and they really shouldn't be assuming or telling you what you should or shouldn't share. The way the tried to belittle you when you said you had a girlfriend by saying 'ah yeah one a university and it was a phase' is awful.

How would they like of someone called what their labelled themseleves a phase?

My dd is gay. Her current partner is a trans man. So she appears to be in a hetro relationship and she has heard the phrase 'just a phase' alot. It's very hurtful and not at all kind.

TheUndeadLovelinessOfDemons · 11/10/2021 06:09

Maybe he should learn the difference between a trans man and a woman who isn't particularly feminine.