Resent that mum never worked/had a job - causing rifts between us

[Waferbiscuit]

My mother married right out of University and since then has been a SAHM/SAHW. She only ever held one job, over the summer, when she was 20 and and has never had a job since.

She has lived a very comfortable life - children at a young age, divorced but remarried quickly so no change in her financial circumstances, moderately successful husband and kids at home until they left when she was 48. Since then she has spent the last 40+ years travelling, pottering and quite frankly stretching out daily chores into the day. She is part of a weird generation of mc women who expected to be cared for and probably never expected to work.

By contrast I have worked FT since leaving University, now a single parent, still working and juggling everything.

The fact that mum has never worked means she's lived in a real bubble, and has very skewed views about public life and the world of work. This causes huge rifts between us and really affects our relationship.

• She has very little concept of what work is like and the pressures of modern work so when I explain that I am stressed she thinks that it's my fault and I need to manage it.
• She doesn't understand that people need to do work outside of 9-5
• She has no real sense of what it's like to have someone instructing you/telling you what to do; she has literally been 'self guided' her entire life
• She thinks it's easy to get a job and promotion so doesn't understand why they aren't forthcoming for me or my siblings.
• She is deeply unproductive so thinks juggling means trying to do the dishes and laundry in the same morning and considers that 'busy-ness' to be on par with mine
• She is very naive about money and assumes everyone is on a relatively good wage. She doesn't understand why I can't go part-time.
• She dresses in organic frocks and proudly doesn't wear makeup or do her hair but her 'hippyness' is a privilege - she doesn't clock that other people actually have to look and dress professionally for work.
• She doesn't help me in any way - financially or with DCs - because she's always too busy doing nothing at all, but she's 'very busy'.

I know I should be grateful that she's not working in a factory to scrape by, but her naiviety means there's an entire aspects of my life she doesn't understand and over the years it's caused real tensions. I partly resent that she doesn't get it and partly resent that she's had such an easy ride that she takes for granted or really considers her due.

Posting just to see if anyone else has the same problem and how they made peace with it.

This sounds really frustrating. My mum has worked all of her life and is still working part time plus caring for my grandparents a bit and grandchildren (not mine). My dad is retired from being a teacher and does a bit of self employed work which is in his hobby /area of interest. They're early to mid 60s

But one thing they both don't really get is how much the world of work has changed and how different different sectors are. For example I work in the cultural sector on contracts and some self employed work. That's just how the sector is. Permanent jobs are very rare, yearly pay increases aren't a thing, there's no signal column to work your way up. It makes pensions really difficult and can mean there's months of unemployment at a time. It's not paid amazingly and is very challenging to get into, despite a post graduate education.

I think it's not totally helped that my sister works in the civil service. With ver good terms and conditions and a clear progression pathway.

I love what I do and have accepted the terms of the sector I work in. Although I don't actually think they're OK, I think all jobs should have security and decent pay as a minimum, but that's a different conversation.

However it is hard everyone a contract comes to an end or I get something new or whatever that they don't understand my job isn't like there's was/is. I get what you mean about the assumptions, do they think I'm not working hard enough as I'm not getting promoted every few years? When in fact getting work on a continuous basis is success enough and beyond a lot of people. I do think there's a huge generational difference in the experience of work and it really can be quite hard.

The OP has corrected the age - her mum is only 80 - and believe me we who are 75+ did not live in victorian times - we had women's lib, our own bank accounts and could get a mortgage on our own income.* I know I did all that - single parent and worked full time in a graduate level job in IT I had a TV, a landline phone, a fridge, a freezer, a twin tub washing machine, central heating, drove a car, and owned my own house.*

You may have done, it doesn't mean to say everybody did! My grandparents refused to send my mother to a grammar school, as they thought education was wasted on women, who were only ever going to become a secretary! My mother left school at 16 with no qualifications, and went to work in a shop, until marriage at 19. She never learnt to drive, and quite a few women round us could not drive. I was born in the late 50s. We lived in a reasonably prosperous area. My father gave up smoking when I was 2, to save up for a fridge for the birth of my brother (to keep the bottles in, I imagine); we only got central heating when I was 7; a colour television when I was 17; and they had a landline put in, when I went to university. I only remember one graduate among the women, my mother knew; and there were no single parents, except a widow. It was the norm for women to be given "the housekeeping", not to have their own bank account! Two of my great aunts lived in the back streets of the town, and still only had an outside toilet for as long as I can remember. Apart from the pill, I don't remember women's lib having any great impact on the women around us, in the 60s and 70s - although it made a difference to my generation of girls, who passed the 11 plus, and went to grammar school and university.

Apparently, doing the family washing used to take my MIL all day, every Monday.

I know I did all that - single parent and worked full time in a graduate level job in IT

Did graduate jobs in IT even exist in the early 70s? My memory of that time is you got an electric typewriter if you were lucky and a calculator. All financial records were made by hand. My bank statements were typed in the individual branch well into the 80s. I’m struggling to work out what a job in IT would have looked like, let alone how a woman would have got one.

I can understand your frustration OP. Your mother has had a very comfortable and leisurely life. Her not being able to acknowledge that, together with not recognising that your life is not as comfortable and leisurely, must be very bloody annoying.

Did she not bring you and yiur siblings up to be successful people? I call that a job. What a horribly,depressing thread. Women berating other women for their life choices. Dont we have enough men to bring us down?

I don't think your DMs lack of understanding is purely down to not having worked, I've found my DPs who both worked don't really understand modern working life because they've not worked for so long.

I basically don't discuss much work related- it's easier that way. Thankfully they're very independent so they don't expect things from me when I'm working.

I hear you OP and I know exactly the 'type' of which you speak. I joined a library based bookclub a few years ago and it was populated largely by very nice middle class women from late 50s to early 70s who had not worked since their first child was born. To be sure they put in a hard few years when their children were small - though I would argue in a much less pressurised environment than contempory women - but since then, had led lives largely of pleasure and leisure. Unlike previous generations, they would also have had access to the kind of modern conveniences we have now for at least the last 30 or 40 years so not quite bringing clothes to the river to wash. The talk was largely of wine tasting courses, holidays to Italy or France, meals out, etc. They were largely intelligent and nice women but they lived in a total bubble and lacked that bit of spark or 'grit' that I like in a person. I also used to feel somewhat resentful on their husbands behalfs, I think it would really piss me off to be still working away in my early or mid 60s while my partner spent their days golfing and lunching out and planning their next city break with the girls

@theleafandnotthetree

I hear you OP and I know exactly the 'type' of which you speak. I joined a library based bookclub a few years ago and it was populated largely by very nice middle class women from late 50s to early 70s who had not worked since their first child was born. To be sure they put in a hard few years when their children were small - though I would argue in a much less pressurised environment than contempory women - but since then, had led lives largely of pleasure and leisure. Unlike previous generations, they would also have had access to the kind of modern conveniences we have now for at least the last 30 or 40 years so not quite bringing clothes to the river to wash. The talk was largely of wine tasting courses, holidays to Italy or France, meals out, etc. They were largely intelligent and nice women but they lived in a total bubble and lacked that bit of spark or 'grit' that I like in a person. I also used to feel somewhat resentful on their husbands behalfs, I think it would really piss me off to be still working away in my early or mid 60s while my partner spent their days golfing and lunching out and planning their next city break with the girls

I love someone who is offended on someone else's behalf 🙄 You felt resentful for their husbands ? Dear god ... working full time gives you that "spark" and "grit" ? Really ....

@DameMaureen. Working full time or not was only part of it, there was just simply no common ground there and I found their present lives and conversations banal and lacking in depth. Which I am perfectly entitled to do, I got on perfectly well with them but there would never be friendship in a meaningful sense.

theleafandnotthetree

I hear you OP and I know exactly the 'type' of which you speak. I joined a library based bookclub a few years ago and it was populated largely by very nice middle class women from late 50s to early 70s who had not worked since their first child was born. To be sure they put in a hard few years when their children were small - though I would argue in a much less pressurised environment than contempory women - but since then, had led lives largely of pleasure and leisure. Unlike previous generations, they would also have had access to the kind of modern conveniences we have now for at least the last 30 or 40 years so not quite bringing clothes to the river to wash. The talk was largely of wine tasting courses, holidays to Italy or France, meals out, etc. They were largely intelligent and nice women but they lived in a total bubble and lacked that bit of spark or 'grit' that I like in a person. I also used to feel somewhat resentful on their husbands behalfs, I think it would really piss me off to be still working away in my early or mid 60s while my partner spent their days golfing and lunching out and planning their next city break with the girls

Would a stranger choose their life or yours?

working full time gives you that "spark" and "grit" ? Really ....

I know, this is what women have been conditioned to think. It's quite clever really.

@theleafandnotthetree I wouldn't say my mom is a lady who lunches but her contemporaries are a bit like you describe. My mom however does have the mindset that 'women deserve to be looked after/underwritten by men' and thinks it's a failure on my part that I didn't find my underwriter!

I also used to feel somewhat resentful on their husbands behalfs, I think it would really piss me off to be still working away in my early or mid 60s while my partner spent their days golfing and lunching out and planning their next city break with the girls

Sorry but there are lots and lots of assumptions in this post. You can't possibly know if their husbands are resentful or not! And of course they are going to choose to discuss their holidays rather than their teenagers tantrums or their elderly parents' incontinence issues or how they are shopping, cooking, and cleaning for their adult children who have moved back home or are looking after grandchildren a couple of days a week or providing sickness and holiday cover. Just because you attend a book club in your 50s- early 70s and you happen to be middle class, doesn't automatically mean you live a life of unadulterated pleasure.

I know, this is what women have been conditioned to think. It's quite clever really

It’s a massive con. And it’s only now I’m old that I can see it for what it is. Tell women they can have equality so they can have jobs, swiftly morphing into they must have jobs. Not only that but they must have two jobs because even now men who really do their share are in a distinct minority. Model the economy so two wages are essential to keep the ship afloat and tell women who don’t need to buy into it that they’re freeloaders and lacking “spark and grit”.

It’s a funny kind of emancipation.

I am the opposite OP my mum always worked and I am the SAHP (I have worked in the past and couldn't find a job and ended up staying at home)

STILL have most of those issues with her they just don't understanding the current world situation.....

@theleafandnotthetree

I hear you OP and I know exactly the 'type' of which you speak. I joined a library based bookclub a few years ago and it was populated largely by very nice middle class women from late 50s to early 70s who had not worked since their first child was born. To be sure they put in a hard few years when their children were small - though I would argue in a much less pressurised environment than contempory women - but since then, had led lives largely of pleasure and leisure. Unlike previous generations, they would also have had access to the kind of modern conveniences we have now for at least the last 30 or 40 years so not quite bringing clothes to the river to wash. The talk was largely of wine tasting courses, holidays to Italy or France, meals out, etc. They were largely intelligent and nice women but they lived in a total bubble and lacked that bit of spark or 'grit' that I like in a person. I also used to feel somewhat resentful on their husbands behalfs, I think it would really piss me off to be still working away in my early or mid 60s while my partner spent their days golfing and lunching out and planning their next city break with the girls

What on earth does it mean to say you’re resentful on their husbands’ behalfs? Perhaps their husbands are grateful to their wives for raising children, running the house, caring for elderly parents etc, see them as complex individuals rather than stereotypes and are pleased they’re having fun.

Seriously, just say you’re resentful on your own behalf- at least that’s honest. The misogyny on this thread is staggering.

Blossomtoes Mon 11-Oct-21 11:47:52
I know, this is what women have been conditioned to think. It's quite clever really

It’s a massive con. And it’s only now I’m old that I can see it for what it is. Tell women they can have equality so they can have jobs, swiftly morphing into they must have jobs. Not only that but they must have two jobs because even now men who really do their share are in a distinct minority. Model the economy so two wages are essential to keep the ship afloat and tell women who don’t need to buy into it that they’re freeloaders and lacking “spark and grit”

It’s a funny kind of emancipation

Indeed.

We have moved from "Women can work and will be treated equally" to "Women who choose not to work (outside the home) are freeloaders / boring / privileged"

A single Dad would struggle to earn enough to buy all of that help if there was no woman at home juggling it all. Now the women have to run the household and bring home the bacon.

All sold to women as "You Can Have It All" [Hmm]

@JumperandJacket. Perhaps their husbands are all of that. Or perhaps they are resentful. I don't know and neither do you. It just struck me as being a bit unfair and unbalanced, albeit on limited knowledge. Just because a woman is the beneficiary of the imbalance in this instance, doesn't mean I'd think 'good on her'. I don't know loads of women of the type I have described - I don't really move in those circles - but they do exist. People on this thread have described them within their own families! All part of the tapestry of life.

@Blossomtoes

I know, this is what women have been conditioned to think. It's quite clever really

It’s a massive con. And it’s only now I’m old that I can see it for what it is. Tell women they can have equality so they can have jobs, swiftly morphing into they must have jobs. Not only that but they must have two jobs because even now men who really do their share are in a distinct minority. Model the economy so two wages are essential to keep the ship afloat and tell women who don’t need to buy into it that they’re freeloaders and lacking “spark and grit”.

It’s a funny kind of emancipation.

My dad expected my Mum to do all of the domestic chores even when she was working FT ….and earning more than him. He viewed it as “women’s work.”☹️
He now moans that my SM ( in her 80’s) isn’t interested in cooking much so he has to do some of it. 😂

Apart from the hippy aspect this could totally be my mum. I agree on almost every point. My mum seems to think I should have had 100 grand in savings by now because I've worked for so long and that I should be able to get a house easily by now, completely unaware of the cost of housing these days (she lives in a mortgage-free house, all paid for by my Dad), and how life generally is so hard for so many people including me.

@Blossomtoes

I know I did all that - single parent and worked full time in a graduate level job in IT

Did graduate jobs in IT even exist in the early 70s? My memory of that time is you got an electric typewriter if you were lucky and a calculator. All financial records were made by hand. My bank statements were typed in the individual branch well into the 80s. I’m struggling to work out what a job in IT would have looked like, let alone how a woman would have got one.

I can’t speak for that poster but my Mum worked in IT in the late sixties/early 70s. She wasn’t a graduate though, she went into it after leaving school at 15 to work on admin for a utility company. Her job was “Comptometer operator”. She wore a lab coat and fed punch cards into massive mainframe computers that filled an entire room. I seem to remember her telling me her boss was female, and I am sure that some of the kore senior people there would have been graduates. By the time she had finished having babies (starting with me, in 1973) “comptometer operator” no longer existed as a job and she became a receptionist, but she always told me she bitterly regretted giving it up. I imagine that the ones who did stay moved on to whatever computer technology came next.

@theleafandnotthetree You're right, we don't know, so why feel resentful? It bothers me that people (including women) seem to reach so readily for sexist and ageist stereotypes- if an older woman's having fun, she's obviously a lazy cow sponging off her hard-working husband etc. It also ignores the fact that many men of that generation would rather have a wife running the house than out at work- it certainly would have their lives easier.

It also bothers me to see women denigrating the value of domestic work. You at least acknowledge that the women you're talking about would have worked hard raising children. OP seems to have raised herself while her mum lay on a chaise longue eating violet creams, as far as I can gather from the credit she gives her.

adrianmolesmole Mon 11-Oct-21 13:17:51Apart from the hippy aspect this could totally be my mum. I agree on almost every point. My mum seems to think I should have had 100 grand in savings by now because I've worked for so long and that I should be able to get a house easily by now, completely unaware of the cost of housing these days (she lives in a mortgage-free house, all paid for by my Dad), and how life generally is so hard for so many people including me.

@adrianmolesmole - Yes, my mom is the same about savings, ditto my stepmother, both going on about the savings they have although forgetting that someone else contributing to the pot. It seems to be in all this, the main message is: 'the most lucrative thing you can do is get a husband/he is your biggest asset.' Yuck!

OP seems to have raised herself while her mum lay on a chaise longue eating violet creams, as far as I can gather from the credit she gives her.

@JumperandJacket - that's just not true and I never said that. What my original post stated was that my because my mom was never in paid employment, and already being in a bit of a mc bubble, she doesn't get/understand modern life/world of work and therefore my challenges. That's not the same as 'my mom was too lazy to raise me.'

@waferbiscuit Sure, I'm obviously exaggerating, but you do describe her as not very involved and more interested in her hobbies.

Just bothers me a bit to see so many posts implying that women outside the paid working economy don't contribute.

I do have sympathy for you re her inability to understand your life. Also sounds as if there's a bit of miscommunication going on- perhaps she worries about you being so busy but the way she expresses it sounds to you as if she thinks you could easily do less; she thinks you should have been promoted because she thinks you're great but the way she expresses it sounds to you as if she's criticising you for not having been, etc Just a thought.

but you do describe her as not very involved and more interested in her hobbies

That is the case. But of course back then parents weren't supposed to be that involved in their children's lives - they were living their lives and fitting us in.