Dealing with aftermath of DC witnessing P's loss of temper.

[TheWayHome]

If anyone's awake, I need some advice, perspective and hopefully some future encouragement.

Context: partner of 15 years has a history of periodic anxiety, depression and low moods which are usually fairly well managed with medication, plenty of 'me time' and general pandering. We have 2 DC, 8 and 11. We have recently agreed to separate but haven't been in in a hurry as things haven't been totally dire, but in recognition that it is hard work living together, mainly on account of his MH.

P lost his temper last night, escalated really rapidly over a small misunderstanding, and ended up shouting "Fuck you!" and slamming a door really forcefully into the room where youngest DC and I were sitting eating. DC have never seen anything like this; and were terrified. I'm not at all argumentative or shouty, and P is more likely to be moody and isolate if upset by something, which is still an uncomfortable feature of family life, but much less explosive.

P ended up erratically running around trying to apologise to DC, blaming me, attempting to make a phone call which I knew he would deeply regret, and when I unplugged the phone (it really was for the best before anyone suggests it might have been controlling), making veiled threats, all of which the children heard. He then went upstairs to their room and launched into an emotional 'explanation' of why he'd lost it and how we'd be going our separate ways as there was 'no room' for him in our family. He then retreated to his room for the night. I put DC to bed, acknowledging their feelings, but didn't add to the mess by further explaining. I didn't want to confront P as he seemed quite uncharacteristically unhinged, and I didn't want him to go off on one again, so I have stayed awake / dozed through the night trying to process wtf happened.

In a couple of hours the DC will wake up and wonder what on earth happened and how to be in this awful situation. I am furious with P for his outburst and so uncaringly dumping the separation bomb on our DC, which, as he also dropped in there, will entail selling the house they've lived in all their lives. They're in shock. I'm so angry on their behalf, but in the cold light of morning, I don't want to say or do something that will endanger their future relationship with their dad down the road; they're obviously upset now, but are likely to feel like they still want a relationship with him once things calm down. I'm so angry, I feel he's broken them. I want them to know their feelings are valid without overlaying my own anger and upset on top of theirs. How do I support them with navigating such big feelings of betrayal and loss (and likely fear) now?

I now want to proceed much more quickly with our plans to separate, like today or this week, but want to avoid unsettling the DC further as I've no actual plan yet, and nowhere to go immediately. There is no way P will be going anywhere until he absolutely has to. So how do we stay put and carry on functioning while fast-tracking separation, which, owing to organising house sale and limited finances is likely to drag on for months?

And as for P, perhaps I should be concerned about this turn in his mood and try to get him to seek some help, but all I see is the look on my youngest DC's face when he shouted at me and slammed the door at us, and I feel I'm past caring.

And please don't anyone suggest it was a storm in a tea cup or that it'll blow over; it really doesn't feel like that.

Sorry for the rant, I am trying to be pragmatic and think long term while also feeling incredibly angry.

Take the kids out for the day and text him that his behaviour last night was scary, intimidating and damaging for the children, and that he needs to find somewhere else to stay. Don't get into to and fro about who did what, just "this environment is toxic for the children, we need to separate properly" on repeat.

Plan for the eventuality that he doesn't let you back into the home when you get back.

It's really upsetting being the kid in this situation. The demand to play like everything is normal while you tiptoe around an explosive person makes you feel utterly helpless.

I'd take them out of the house to talk about what happened, as far as you can explain, and what will happen next. If you do this in the house they won't be able to think through what you are saying or ask questions because the command to play like everything is fine and to not upset their other parent is implicit throughout the house.

You can’t change what’s happened and everything you’ve done so far has been to make him better, which is admirable. Now you’re realising the cost of that to the rest of you. I’m so impressed that you’re not burying your head in the sand! So many people go into denial and it takes even longer to start making changes.

Mental health issues are awful but they are not a get out of jail free card to behave how you’d like. We make allowances for people who are ill, but there comes a point when it is affecting you all so badly that you have to say enough is enough.

It’s not good for him either to be carrying on as you are. What’s needed is a clean break so you can all find a new way to do things. Once he has his own place and space he can get himself together. You and the dcs can build a loving, safe home, where they are always free to be themselves and so are you!

This is the tough bit. If he won’t put the dcs first then you have to - but that doesn’t mean shielding them completely and letting him criticise you to them. I’d keep to the “dad is ill, but that doesn’t make what he did okay” line. It’s true, it doesn’t place blame, and it tells them you’re going to protect them.

Get in touch with friends, use the support you have.

Please concentrate on your DC today and making them safe.

Your partner seems to he escalating. Do you feel safe?

So, he swore at you in front of the kids and then gave them an emotional and inappropriate explanation. It's not good, no - but calling the police or social services? Way over the top in my opinion.

Definitely not a storm in a teacup. I am not an emotional person, but I am welling up as I type this at the thought of how he told your DC. Absolutely unforgivable.

I would start today by taking DC out somewhere they love and just calmly explain DP isn’t very well.

His health is his responsibility now. You’ve done enough and priority one is the DC.

Regarding moving on quickly, I’d get to a solicitor asap - most offer a free 30 minute consultation so you can get basic info on what you’re entitled to within that. You are probably looking at about a year before finances are settled so you should try to plan for where you can be for that time period. Is the house in both names? Who earns more? Are his MH issues documented as this will affect visitation.

Push hard for mediation early. It will help define the ‘rules’ of the separation - financial/children/communication - and clear boundaries on those issues will take a lot of heat out of the situation which will benefit you, your DC, and your DP. This will also help if you are forced (due to circumstance) to remain in the home together. You can discuss anything you want in mediation and it could start next week if you needed it to.

Good luck today

I would have a plan as depending what dc says they may involve safeguarding

While aware he has MH issues you need put yourself and Dc first he has obviously scared them ( not your fault btw)

Hope.you have enjoyable time with DC

@Shoxfordian

He needs to leave; make it really clear and don’t worry about calling the police if you need to do that

It sounds like you’ve been putting up with his shit for way too long

Just this.

And agree with pp about the "anxiety" being carte blanche to treat others like shit.

From your description he sounds anything but anxious but I bet his kids are. Get him out. Abusive twat.

@Queenoftheashes

Hmm. Could SS get him out? My friend is a social worker and she chucked a guy out of his house for 30 days as the children was scared of him. Of course I assume getting them involved is a whole other can of worms.

Social services cannot make people leave their homes. Your friend (who should not have been discussing this with you!) may have persuaded someone to leave, or in fact it sounds more like the person had bail conditions which were put in place by police if it was 30 days.

I wouldn’t expect someone with mental health difficulties to always be able to control their emotions. If they could, they wouldn’t have mental health problems. It’s a bit like expecting someone with a stomach bug not to vomit. I am not saying you have to live with it though.

So much of your post is about him, managing him and how he will cope.
That is all a waste of time. He is not you. His actions are not your actions and you cannot control him.
You can control your own behaviour.
Set some simple rules for yourself to help you navigate this without any perfect thinking: I will be honest, I will understand what I cannot change, I will model calm interactions with my DC. Don’t try and give them a good day out, acknowledge what’s happened and show them that they can be honest with you and you with them and that you are there for them.
I would ask DH to leave the house but he sounds like he’s so emotionally volatile you can’t trust him to go quietly. What support does he have apart from you? I think the absolute last thing you ‘manage’ for him is by sharing this load with you family and friends so he gets some help and so do you and the kids. Being open is for all your sakes.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee perhaps it was a strong suggestion, he went though. And no I’m sure she shouldn’t have been discussing it, but plenty of people discuss their jobs who shouldn’t. I have been amazed at some of the gossip to come from police / probation officers.

Sounds like you need to speed up the splitting up process.

I've had truly terrible mental health and I've yet to do that to my children. Because i know I've got a responsibility to them to recognise what's going on in my own head and take steps to deal with it before it gets to the point I'm terrifying my poor children and my husband is having to wrestle the phone off me to stop me doing something stupid.

He's got to go. Tell supportive people what happened last night. Don't keep it to yourself. Take the children out and talk to them without him around. There could be a grain of truth in what he was saying. Maybe you are a perfectionist. But that's between you and him and he should never have brought them into it.

What he did was not your fault, and when someone is mentally ill of course you'll tiptoe and make sure theyre ok. You love them and there's really no guidance out there for what a partner should do to support their loved one. So he tells you he needs space upstairs, what else could op have done aside from say "ok"?

He needs to leave. It's your children's home and he frightened them.

This is domestic violence. I know a lot of people will minimise but that's what it is. If children witness domestic violence it's classed as neglect. This is what is happening in your house. Coercive control is also abusvie behaviour and this is what he has been using for years OP.

You need to consult a solicitor on Monday.

Thank you all. DC are up and having breakfast, DC2 bouncy and very much acting as if nothing's happened. DC1 subdued and really grateful to be served breakfast. Sad. P still upstairs.

To answer briefly:
Unmarried, me higher earner although not well off by any means, him OK salary, house in both names, paid for 50/50, small mortgage remaining.
He has no family or reliable support nearby, just friends, whereas I have some family albeit with limited capacity to offer practical support. He'd likely be too proud to ask anyone if he could stay.

Merry, it doesn't feel like we've been keeping a secret re separating; until now, it's felt like quite an amicable discussion between us as parents, with equal participation and motivation, and him saying emphatically that he would likely be happier on his own as a part time parent with fewer commitments and more 'space'. We both agreed that we'd get our ducks in a row first, and not rush into anything, so that it would all go smoothly, as in we'd both have somewhere decent ready to move in to, ensure DC could still get to their schools etc, the kinds of things that are worth waiting for if you are in a position not to rush, and then tell the DC together. House was valued last week. There's been little charge around it, more like a sad admission that we've come to the end of the road, and both acknowledging that his MH has been putting a strain on the relationship and the family.

As far as the DC knowing about P's MH, it hasn't felt right to discuss it in those terms. We've said things like "Daddy gets tired / overwhelmed easily," or "Daddy finds big gatherings / travel / technology and mummy stressful," etc.

Thank you, Wallace. It definitely felt abusive last night. And I recognise that feeling of walking on egg shells, and feeling if not directly controlled, then at least as if there are certain perimeters of behaviour which are 'acceptable' or less likely to cause upset or irritation, IYSWIM.

Can you afford to buy him out?
You shouldn't leave your home unless you absolutely have to. So what if he's proud? When couples separate, one has to move out and presumably he's not proposing to be main carer to the children??

OP when you have time you should read this thread (and the ones that follow), or at least just read the OP's posts. It's an ongoing account of a woman in a similar situation with a partner who used his mental health as a reason to control his family.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?pg=1

I would take your children out for the day. Tell your husband he has to be gone by the time you're back. It doesn't matter whether right now. He can go and stay in a hotel.

Don't invite anyone else out with you - they need to be able to talk about what happened. I would open the conversation with them. Ask them how you're feeling and tell them that what daddy did was not okay. Reassure them that daddy is not going to be at the house when you get home and that is not their fault. He has realised the way he behaved was monstrous and it's not fair on them or on you that his illness is making him no horrible to live with. He is going to get some help to make him better.

If you're sure that you're done, then you can have the conversation about him not coming back.

I'm furious he's put you and your children in this position.

@EarringsandLipstick

They'll be forever wondering if today's the day when he blows up again.

I really don't think they will

They may remember it, but one event isn't going to scar them, especially when they are well supported.

What they probably will hate most - mine do / did - is you & P fighting. There have been a number of disagreements with my ex, even since separating & I know the DC hate it & I do everything I can to avoid them. Not always successfully.

Oh they will. I've lived with it.

No, Close, he isn't, although he wants a 50/50 split of assets, as that is how we've always paid for everything. His DM gave us a generous sum of money recently, and he has also stated he would take all of this in the event of a split.
I'd love to be able to buy him out, but last week's valuation blew that out of the water as our house has risen in value just enough to make that impossible. He has stated that he'd find the buying out scenario difficult and would oppose it, so even if I managed to scrape some miracle money together, it's a non-starter.
Honestly, I have resigned myself to losing a bedroom and sleeping on the sofa of a little 2 bed on the other side of town if necessary, but the DC having to move schools would be a killer.
He's up, so will check back later.
Please tell me this elephant will get eaten piece by piece.

One thing you shouldn’t do is explain this away to your children and make excuses. You need to tell them that this wasn’t acceptable, that he was wrong. And he needs to leave your house.