Can life experiences make someone unlovable?

[LadybirdyBirdylady]

I don't believe that anyone is born unlovable and I believe that love is something others 'give', I suppose, rather than there being something that we do to elicit it. Maybe. I don't know!

But can people be so damaged by their life experiences that they become unlovable? That people can't see lovable qualities in them?

Even when people have come to a point through therapy or choice to 'love themselves' - confident, good self care, good boundaries, treat themselves kindly and with respect, can there still be 'something about them' that makes them unlovable to others?

Yes, me.

My awful life has made me in to a terrible person. Not to my dh and my children. I am totally different to them. But everyone else is unwelcome. I’m a horrid person to them.

No. That's a boundary.

I disagree. Telling someone they can't attend a public event because you're performing there isn't a boundary. Its controlling their actions. They've every right to attend a public event if the want. They choose not to because they're your friends and don't want to cause you upset. An action of love on their part, if you like. But your behaviour "not letting" them come to the performance, that's not loving it's controlling.

Have you heard Eva Cassidy? Wonderful singer. Only one album, cobbled together from family videos at birthdays etc. Released after she died. She was always singing but didn't want attention or fame, rarely sang for an audience even family. Have you considered that you like playing in a band but perhaps you just don't enjoy performing for others? Just as a preference I mean, with nothing deep and meaningful behind it.

But it’s a boundary that keeps people away because of your fears. It’s not a boundary you really need to keep you safe, unless this musically talented friend is also an arse who will put you down, in which case the boundary should be to cut them out of your life. If they’re nice, and just want to come see your band, they will be a bit hurt and confused by this boundary because it doesn’t objectively make sense. It’s you being ruled by fear.

Exactly.

If he is hurt and confused by me having a boundary then that is fine but my priority is how I feel not how he feels.

I don't think that's a bad thing.

When he's hurt and confused by your controlling behaviour (telling him he can't come to a public event, because you say so) and if to protect himself in future he emotionally detaches a little from you and doesn't ask to come see your band again. Then you do think it's a problem because people not loving you is what your whole thread is about! This sort of thing is why. Saying people can't come to an event to "keep you safe" by reducing your fear isn't you taking responsibility for your own emotional state, it's you controlling others behaviour in order to keep your emotions bearable to you. Your emotional needs don't trump others rights to go about their own lives and do things like attend a live band at a public venue. You're unreasonable. Like I said, friends might put up with a little of this but a healthy person looking for a romantic relationship won't, not unless it's a stop-gap thing, as you've found out.

I work with some very broken people and have to say some, as a trauma response, are very hard to like. It is sad.

@MissM2912

I work with some very broken people and have to say some, as a trauma response, are very hard to like. It is sad.

Its very sad. so many people in pain.

Even if "all" it is is the person being emotionally unavailable, that's awful to be on the receiving end of for someone who loves them and it will push an emotionally healthy person away.

@FluffyWhiteBird

No. That's a boundary.

I disagree. Telling someone they can't attend a public event because you're performing there isn't a boundary. Its controlling their actions. They've every right to attend a public event if the want. They choose not to because they're your friends and don't want to cause you upset. An action of love on their part, if you like. But your behaviour "not letting" them come to the performance, that's not loving it's controlling.

Have you heard Eva Cassidy? Wonderful singer. Only one album, cobbled together from family videos at birthdays etc. Released after she died. She was always singing but didn't want attention or fame, rarely sang for an audience even family. Have you considered that you like playing in a band but perhaps you just don't enjoy performing for others? Just as a preference I mean, with nothing deep and meaningful behind it.

Tbf, it's a gig at a pub he doesn't know an hour's drive away from where he lives in an area he doesn't know attended by people he doesn't know. His only reason for going would be to see me.

If it were a festival.or larger event that he might have reasonably wanted to attend anyway, of course I wouldn't stop him. I'd just hate every second of it.

And yes you're right, I do enjoy playing with the band, I do enjoy making music with them but I'm not a performer in any sense. A lot of my friends are musicians whether amateur, semi-pro or pro and they all love the performance part, the attention, the audience reaction etc in a way that I never will.

It makes me cringe whenever I have to turn up at an event and mumble, "I'm with the band..." 🙄

The thing is, I probably do do things to protect myself but I'm not unkind to anyone. I don't treat people badly. I don't project or take things out on them.

I do let people in very slowly but I'm also open about it and why it's necessary for me.

His only reason for going would be to see me

I think this is the crux of the thing. There's a big difference between someone attending a public event and seeing you performing there, and somebody coming to a public event specifically to see you performing. Think of the emotional difference when you though it was the former, and then they say 'I only really came here to see you.'

Also the difference between performing in, say, someone's local pub where they go every night as a matter of course, or them following you round the country to see you in every pub you play in. It's just really really different, emotionally, and I don't think there's anything unusual about having a boundary with one and not the other. Many people feel uncomfortable performing in front of people they know, and if the people they know are worth their salt, they'll respect that.

I don't think it matters what the boundary is. It's healthy to respect it. You can't make yourself not have it, and more than you can say 'Oh look, a spider! Don't be scared.' to an arachnophobe. Well, you can, but you'd be insensitive to, if you knew of their phobia, and the arachnophobe would do well to stay away from you.

The only time this is damaging to relationships is if you can't do something that's vital to the other person for them to actually have a relationship. Like 'I can't talk about my emotions', or 'sex is a no-no.' But even in those situations, it's about finding the right person, who doesn't make you feel pushed.

I do let people in very slowly but I'm also open about it and why it's necessary for me

This is healthy, although I'm not sure why you're feeling the need to explain yourself to people. This is what I'm talking about with the self judgment. Nobody ever feels the need to say 'I let people in at an average pace!', because there's nothing to defend. You're feeling you have to explain it to people because you think they'll otherwise be critical of it.

What's wrong with letting people in slowly? Why not just do that, solid in your boots, and see who sticks around?

The other thing I'm wondering is why you're performing? It sound like you're crossing your own boundaries, there, which may be another self critical 'I'm scared but it's wrong to be' thing?

Sorry if I'm off the mark with that. Why are you putting yourself through something you hate doing, on purpose? What's it for, for you?

@TheFoundations

The other thing I'm wondering is why you're performing? It sound like you're crossing your own boundaries, there, which may be another self critical 'I'm scared but it's wrong to be' thing?

Sorry if I'm off the mark with that. Why are you putting yourself through something you hate doing, on purpose? What's it for, for you?

Because I used to do it a lot when I was younger and I stopped because I lost confidence and my head was filled with other people's criticisms of me.

My mum hated me doing it. Partly because she was projecting her own fears on to me and partly because she thought that, as a woman, my priorities should be finding a husband and being grown up and sensible not making a fool of myself like that.

Part of me wants to see if I can reach a point where I love it. Part of me is fed up of feeling self conscious and ashamed of myself and of hiding myself away because I'm not 'perfect'.

This is healthy, although I'm not sure why you're feeling the need to explain yourself to people.

It takes me a very long time.

My friend came round for lunch a few weeks ago. I've stopped at her house, been for dinner there, been on holiday with her, did a weekly hobby with her and it was the first time she'd been round to my house. I've known her for 9 years.

@LadybirdyBirdylady

This is healthy, although I'm not sure why you're feeling the need to explain yourself to people.

It takes me a very long time.

My friend came round for lunch a few weeks ago. I've stopped at her house, been for dinner there, been on holiday with her, did a weekly hobby with her and it was the first time she'd been round to my house. I've known her for 9 years.

Yeah, but that's how you are. You don't need to explain it any more than you might need to explain why you wear a particular unusual item of underwear, for example. It's your business, and unless someone asks about it because it's affecting them, there's no need to bring it up.

I don't generally have people round to my place at all. I've definitely got a couple of close friends who've never been here, but it's never crossed my mind to explain that; I just suggest meeting out.

I'm questioning your need to explain it, rather than the thing itself. Do you see what I'm getting at, when I say it's a symptom of a negative self-judgment?

Yes, I see.

Well mostly it's not been mentioned and, if it isn't, I wouldn't explain. But a few people have said it makes them feel 'kept out' and its kind of become a bit of a joke amongst some friends because we're close enough to joke about ourselves and our foibles.

So, no, I don't feel the need to explain it or justify myself to everyone, but if someone asks, I just say it's my safe space and it's not personal to them.

So, you having that barrier there doesn't cause any issues, then, in relationships with people who are good for you. And that's how it should be with all boundaries. You should never really have to mention them (except perhaps occasionally in jest with people you know already accept them, because they should only get mentioned when somebody crosses them.

I think love has a transactional aspect to it for many (?all) people - where they can 'give' love to someone as long they are getting something they need or value back (not necessarily also love).

I've observed relationships and conversations around relationships often involve a constant weighing of the 'cost vs benefit', eg. 'what am I getting out of this?'

I think sometimes strong instinctual relationships (like mother/child) bypass this to a degree, but even there it still has influence. When a mother describes struggling to bond with her child that doesn't express any affection back, we nod and understand in between tips and encouragement.

So, the more you have to offer other people what they might need, perhaps the more likely you are to find "love", or erhaps to strike up a relationship that develops into love.

I think the biggest test of all is whether YOU can love yourself. If you can, you have proven yourself lovable.
If you can't, then you are better off working on that first, as it will lay the foundation for all other relationships.

@TheFoundations

It’s not a boundary you really need to keep you safe

In terms of emotions, that's not for anybody but OP to say. None of us can measure the emotions of others, and so none of us can judge.

It’s you being ruled by fear

As would you be, someone kept putting spiders or mice (or whatever makes you flinch) in your hair, even though, objectively, there's nothing to be afraid of. Would you say, then, that for fear of hurting others, you should put up with those who do this?

I think it's a better idea to listen to our own feelings, and respect them. If you don't like something, choose not to be around it, and don't let anybody tell you different. Anybody who thinks you ought to change your boundaries according to their preference, or to save their feelings, can climb straight into the bin.

Yes I see what you’re saying. I think I was trying to unpick these statements with reference to the original question, rather than trying to make the OP feel guilty about this particular person’s feelings being hurt.

I meant that the answer is still no, there is nothing in a persons history that makes them completely objectively impossible for anyone to love. But that in the boundaries you set with your friends, this is an example of it being a big mountain to climb for a person to begin to love you, because you hold them at a distance even when you really quite like them and they really quite like you. If you need to do this to feel safe, then you need to do it, but I think it’s the answer to your original question.