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Original poster

Can life experiences make someone unlovable?

91 replies

LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 10:03

I don't believe that anyone is born unlovable and I believe that love is something others 'give', I suppose, rather than there being something that we do to elicit it. Maybe. I don't know!

But can people be so damaged by their life experiences that they become unlovable? That people can't see lovable qualities in them?

Even when people have come to a point through therapy or choice to 'love themselves' - confident, good self care, good boundaries, treat themselves kindly and with respect, can there still be 'something about them' that makes them unlovable to others?

OP posts:
Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 14:03

@DevonSunsets

I worked for a lady for a number of years. She was perfectly pleasant, socially well rounded, decently groomed and midline attractive.

But there was an air about her. Its really hard to describe it felt that she was fractured a little inside and that she was not quite.... whole.

We got stuck at a random train station for hours and hours trying to get to a training session. During this time, as the hours dragged on, she opened up about her life. Her parents disliked her, she had a childhood of being ignored by peers and friendship groups and she had moved through life feeling unloved and incapable of being loved. She had lots of therapy (and still was) . I will always remember what she said

'I am loveable, I know that. I know my therapist is right and that my past trauma doesn't shape the now. But I think in my soul, way way deep in my soul, despite rational thought and understanding, I don't really believe I am lovable and I will never ever really believe it and that is the truth of it'

I kind of thought she was right and that 'truth' was the fractured feeling that she projected outwards. It seemed to rebuff people on a totally subconscious level and ward them away. If she had a relationship the wall of her 'truth' seemed to be one people could never climb.

That makes a lot of sense.

I'm not sure where the wall begins and ends thought.

Actually, that's made me wonder if I've locked myself away emotionally in my own tower and I need someone to prove I matter to them by at least wanting to cut down 40 odd years of brambles and thicket to get to me.

Not for them to cut all the way through it but just to show that they'd like to. Does that make sense?

I know that's going to be 'jumped on' for looking like I want someone else to do all the work. It's not that. But I think I'd be able to take my barriers down a little if I thought that someone actually wanted to get to know me rather than seeing me as a stop gap.

Maybe I'd lower my barriers for someone who seemed genuinely interested.

I've certainly done it with friends.

OP posts:
Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 14:13

@TheFoundations

That's what scares me

Everything in your post, I know you are right but I've been this way for so long. Its in every cell of my body. I would need to become a whole new person. Obviously, my values, interests and other beliefs would remain the same but my whole way of viewing myself and the world around would be so different

I would be different

And that scares me

Plus I can't afford it

These are excuses. I've been where you are, but the truth is, the change is neither expensive, nor scary. It happens in your mind, so nothing has to change in your external life except ^those things you choose to change* It's not like your old familiar world just disappears; it's more that everything you have now is still available, but there are hundreds of better options. Like you've been holding a menu all your life, and every item on it is just 'Peas'. The change will reveal a full menu to you with a variety of 3 course meals, but you can still have peas if you want. You just won't want to.

As for expensive; when you realise that you are in charge of this change-of-mind, the job is practically done; just in that realisation. That's free.

What have you done, today, that shows you that you love you. Imagine that you are somebody else: what would you need that someone else to do, to make you feel really loved, and cherished? Right now; what would make you feel that?

I can see your point.

What would it look like today?

I don't know.

Something genuine.

A genuine hug; someone who was curious about me and wanted to know about me - what makes me tick etc; someone who listened to my boundaries without me having to restate them or criticising me for them later.

I am thinking of one friend I have who does do these things. He is lovely but it is purely platonic on both sides.

I suppose I just want to feel like I matter to someone.

OP posts:
Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 14:14

Thank you for the book and video recommendations. I'm going to take a closer look at those this evening.

OP posts:
Crunchingleaf · 07/10/2021 14:15

Very thought provoking thread.

Never met my father and my mother was very distant/cold towards me. I always felt like she blamed me for the way her life turned out. She met my stepfather and never once protected me from him. She treated my sister better then me and treated the boys better again. To the point that other relatives noticed and pulled her up on it. For a long time I felt strongly that no one could ever love me and my proof was my own mother doesn’t love me.
I ended up in a shit relationship with someone probably more damaged then me. Out of that came DS. And I spend whole pregnancy terrified that I wouldn’t love him and would be like my mother cold and distant. I adore DS, love him too bits. I probably go overboard showing him affection and telling him I love him but I don’t want him to ever doubt my love for him.
I believe that having DS healed me enough that I was able to find peace with myself and my childhood. He drives me to be a better person so I can be the best mother I can be.
I knew my DP before I ever met my ex and there was always something between us, however if we had gotten together back then we wouldn’t of worked because I didn’t love myself and didn’t think myself worthy of love. When ours paths crossed again I was ready for a loving relationship and I knew that I am worthy of love and that whatever caused my mother not to love me wasn’t my fault.
I am very lucky to be where I am in life now. Not everyone gets to the stage where they can make peace with their past and have a better life.
I think unless you have self love and believe you are worthy of love then you will never experience love.

Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 14:23

Yes, having own children are me realise that what I'd experienced was not about 'me' too.

I suppose my beliefs fall into the following...

I'm not the sort of person people can love.
I'm not the sort of woman men fall in love with.
I'm not worthy of commitment.
I'm not worthy of the 'sacrifice' that takes.

OP posts:
Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 14:25

Actually, that's not entirely true.

I do believe I am worthy of love but I believe that other people can't see it.

That's probably it in a nutshell really.

OP posts:
Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 14:31

I think I'm actually lovely!

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with me which I suppose brings me back to the original question. Whether, for some people, no amount of therapy or healing can be enough because maybe other people see the damage that was caused. Like a piece of paper that's been screwed up. Yu can flatten it and iron it and make it as good as you ever could and could write or draw on it. But it will always be obvious it was crumpled. I guess.

OP posts:
TheFoundations · 07/10/2021 14:31

I suppose I just want to feel like I matter to someone

Brilliant. Massively useful observation.

The key is in realising that you are someone. And so, if you matter to you, this job is done.

What can you do today, that will prove to you that you matter to you. That you are your number one. That you are worthy of being treated like a fabulous specimen of the human race?

I found that a useful key into this was to ask myself what, in my eyes, fabulous specimens of the human race were like. What did they do that I didn't? And I thought of things like 'They donate blood!' and 'They volunteer!' and 'They run marathons!' and 'They play musical instruments!' and 'They buy themselves boxes of chocolates and eat them all in one go without giving a flying fandoodle!' and 'They're really well travelled!' and 'They know about everything.

Your list will be different. Make it. Then start working towards ticking things off. It's free. You can do it right now. Even if 'They spend 6 months in New York!' is on your list, it's free to investigate how to start working towards doing that. But take steps.

The change between 'I don't have much self respect' to 'I'm a person taking active steps towards being a person I would consider awesome' is the change in mindset you need.

It's like a penny dropping, honestly. It happened to me one Sunday morning walking along the seafront near my flat. And suddenly, taking on the whole responsibility for my own wellbeing was terrifying. But within minutes, it was awe inspiringly liberating.

By asking 'Am I unloveable?' you are shirking your responsibility towards yourself. If you're unloveable, you can't be blamed for not loving you, right? It's not your fault, because it can't be.

Take out the word 'fault' though. 'Fault' lies somewhere in your childhood, and it's not yours. It's about what you've been taught.

'Responsibility' is your part in this. Take care of your emotions as if you were a child. Give you what you need. Expose you to things that you love, things that inspire you, things that make you feel potential. The change of mindset follows a change in actions. You have to change what you do, rather than thinking that you'll do things differently after you've changed.

TheFoundations · 07/10/2021 14:35

@LadybirdyBirdylady

I think I'm actually lovely!

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with me which I suppose brings me back to the original question. Whether, for some people, no amount of therapy or healing can be enough because maybe other people see the damage that was caused. Like a piece of paper that's been screwed up. Yu can flatten it and iron it and make it as good as you ever could and could write or draw on it. But it will always be obvious it was crumpled. I guess.

Crumples are loveable. A persons crumples can make your heart ache with love for them.
Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 15:21

A persons crumples can make your heartachewith love for them

Gosh, yes. Don't I know it! I think I've felt so far that my crumples have made other people discard me.

OP posts:
TheFoundations · 07/10/2021 15:26

How do you feel about your crumples? Do you think you treat people ok, or do you think that your crumples make you treat people in a way that makes their discarding of you reasonable? Be honest. I'll go first, in case it reassures you: I was a feckin nightmare in relationships until I got over this hurdle, and if I was somebody else, I would have discarded me too Smile

Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 15:42

@TheFoundations

I suppose I just want to feel like I matter to someone

Brilliant. Massively useful observation.

The key is in realising that you are someone. And so, if you matter to you, this job is done.

What can you do today, that will prove to you that you matter to you. That you are your number one. That you are worthy of being treated like a fabulous specimen of the human race?

I found that a useful key into this was to ask myself what, in my eyes, fabulous specimens of the human race were like. What did they do that I didn't? And I thought of things like 'They donate blood!' and 'They volunteer!' and 'They run marathons!' and 'They play musical instruments!' and 'They buy themselves boxes of chocolates and eat them all in one go without giving a flying fandoodle!' and 'They're really well travelled!' and 'They know about everything.

Your list will be different. Make it. Then start working towards ticking things off. It's free. You can do it right now. Even if 'They spend 6 months in New York!' is on your list, it's free to investigate how to start working towards doing that. But take steps.

The change between 'I don't have much self respect' to 'I'm a person taking active steps towards being a person I would consider awesome' is the change in mindset you need.

It's like a penny dropping, honestly. It happened to me one Sunday morning walking along the seafront near my flat. And suddenly, taking on the whole responsibility for my own wellbeing was terrifying. But within minutes, it was awe inspiringly liberating.

By asking 'Am I unloveable?' you are shirking your responsibility towards yourself. If you're unloveable, you can't be blamed for not loving you, right? It's not your fault, because it can't be.

Take out the word 'fault' though. 'Fault' lies somewhere in your childhood, and it's not yours. It's about what you've been taught.

'Responsibility' is your part in this. Take care of your emotions as if you were a child. Give you what you need. Expose you to things that you love, things that inspire you, things that make you feel potential. The change of mindset follows a change in actions. You have to change what you do, rather than thinking that you'll do things differently after you've changed.

Thank you for such a positive and inspiring response!

At the risk of sounding like I'm just going to be negative.

I did this a few years ago.

Some of the things I did already and somethings I added to it. Some of list was similar to yours

I lost weight and got fit because I'd neglected myself in that respect. Took up yoga and dance lessons.

I've always volunteered and did more. I've mentored young people; became an advocate; became a trustee of a local charity etc.

I play a few instruments so I joined a band. It didn't fit right so I left and joined another with a different instrument. Four bands and four different instruments later, I'm really in my happy place musically.

I had a year of saying yes to things - feeling the fear and doing it anyway.

I eat healthily, I'm not a people pleaser, I have boundaries.

I spend a lot of time outside in nature. I lie under the stars, I spent the night sleeping out in the local woods with a friend.

Even down to little things like always wearing nice underwear or keeping my nails looking nice.

Sitting in with a glass of wine, a book and candles.

They gave me moments of peace but none of it has made a lasting difference to either the way I feel about myself or the way I experience the world outside of me.

There were still difficulties though. A lack of confidence stopped me from progressing in dancing - being visible was just too uncomfortable. I had lessons for two years before stopping. I've recently taken it up again.

As much as I love my band, I absolutely hate performing to an audience. It has taken 3 years to let friends or family come and see me. I'm terrified of being judged not good enough. I did let my brother and one friend come to my last gig - just to push myself but now i feel the pressure because the friend is coming to the next one and I feel under so much pressure to get it right. Another friend wants to come but plays the same instrument to a much higher standard so I won't let him.

I live in constant fear of being exposed or 'found out'. Its debilitating. Even when I switch my brain off and force myself to do it, I can't enjoy it.

Even when I receive positive feedback I can't accept it.

I have really tried! I'm tired of it all now.

OP posts:
Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 15:52

@TheFoundations

How do you feel about your crumples? Do you think you treat people ok, or do you think that your crumples make you treat people in a way that makes their discarding of you reasonable? Be honest. I'll go first, in case it reassures you: I was a feckin nightmare in relationships until I got over this hurdle, and if I was somebody else, I would have discarded me too Smile
I find it hard to let people in because I don't want them to see the crumples.

I have no idea if I'm a nightmare, tbh! I've got nothing to compare myself to.

But I never shout, lose my temper or raise my voice, I don't make demands of other people, I don't hold people to ridiculous expectations. I don't put conditions on things, I'm not jealous, I don't ask for reassurance, I'm not 'insecure' or needy. I've been told I'm funny and quirky, good company and easy to be around.

My friends, male.and female, can't explain why my experiences are as they are. But they only know me as a friend.

But no one has ever developed deeper feelings towards me.

I just feel I'm missing something huge.

OP posts:
TheFoundations · 07/10/2021 16:55

I find it hard to let people in because I don't want them to see the crumples

Can you define them? The crumples? (I like calling them that) What are they? What do they change about you? What would you be like if you were uncrumpled?

TheFoundations · 07/10/2021 16:56

I find it hard to let people in because I don't want them to see the crumples

and

But no one has ever developed deeper feelings towards me

are 2 different sentences saying the exact same thing.

Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 18:07

Yes, I can see that...

I don't know what they are really.

All the things I was criticised for.

Physical flaws - not being slim or pretty enough.

Character flaws - too everything and not enough everything else.

Being boring, dull, just not worth the effort. Just not having that quality that people see in others that makes them love them. Not ever being worth sacrificing other women or other opportunities for. Being enough.

If I'm forced to face it rationally then I can see it makes no sense.

I just feel that the bits of me that are OK are good enough to outweigh the bits of me that aren't.

And even when I have let people in, it has made no difference.

Intellectually/rationally, I know that I'm no better or worse than anyone else. That no knew is perfect and we're all flawed I do understand that. I understand that it's the scars on our souls that make us unique, who we are and interesting.

But emotionally, I hit a barrier every time and I can't put my finger in it any more than that.

It is true that I'm scared of letting people in again and it making no difference.

OP posts:
TheFoundations · 07/10/2021 19:23

I just feel that the bits of me that are OK are good enough to outweigh the bits of me that aren't

I wonder whose standards you're trying to live up to...

If you're not 'good enough' for somebody, then they're not good enough for you either, because your standards don't match. But that's applicable to you looking at you too. There's part of you that 'is', and the other part of you, that judges the part that 'is'. The key will be somewhere in the process of unifying those two. Currently the 'judging' part is run by external influences.

FluffyWhiteBird · 07/10/2021 19:38

Yes, if they don't treat others kindly and with respect, people are going to be less likely to like them. Some people become very bitter, jealous or negative due to their experiences and it shows in their language, behaviour and outlook. They can make them extremely draining people to be around.

My take on who is popular is those who keeps things light, to some extent tells people what they want to hear even if it's not the truth/they don't mean it, gives people their full attention when they're speaking with them, is never obviously and outwardly unkind (although maybe eg they didn't cancel meeting because they're ill but because they just CBA to see you, which isn't kind! But you'd never know). They also seem to refer to anyone they've met even once as their "friend" and if they throw a party will invite people they barely know/happy to socialize with those they barely know. They have good people skills and quickly form at least superficial relationships with just about anyone they meet.

FluffyWhiteBird · 07/10/2021 19:50

As much as I love my band, I absolutely hate performing to an audience. It has taken 3 years to let friends or family come and see me. I'm terrified of being judged not good enough. I did let my brother and one friend come to my last gig - just to push myself but now i feel the pressure because the friend is coming to the next one and I feel under so much pressure to get it right. Another friend wants to come but plays the same instrument to a much higher standard so I won't let him.

That's trying to control your emotions by controlling someone else's behaviour. Friends are more low-key than romantic partners, friends are around you less and are less emotionally invested. Friends might tolerate a bit of controlling behaviour but romantic partners, if they're healthy themselves, will be driven away by it.

Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 21:05

@FluffyWhiteBird

As much as I love my band, I absolutely hate performing to an audience. It has taken 3 years to let friends or family come and see me. I'm terrified of being judged not good enough. I did let my brother and one friend come to my last gig - just to push myself but now i feel the pressure because the friend is coming to the next one and I feel under so much pressure to get it right. Another friend wants to come but plays the same instrument to a much higher standard so I won't let him.

That's trying to control your emotions by controlling someone else's behaviour. Friends are more low-key than romantic partners, friends are around you less and are less emotionally invested. Friends might tolerate a bit of controlling behaviour but romantic partners, if they're healthy themselves, will be driven away by it.

No. That's a boundary.
OP posts:
reader12 · 07/10/2021 21:40

But it’s a boundary that keeps people away because of your fears. It’s not a boundary you really need to keep you safe, unless this musically talented friend is also an arse who will put you down, in which case the boundary should be to cut them out of your life. If they’re nice, and just want to come see your band, they will be a bit hurt and confused by this boundary because it doesn’t objectively make sense. It’s you being ruled by fear.

Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 21:54

He's not an arse, no. He's lovely. But it is something I need to do for now. I've only known him for around 6 months and it takes a while for me to trust people enough to be vulnerable around them.

If he is hurt and confused by me having a boundary then that is fine but my priority is how I feel not how he feels.

I don't think that's a bad thing.

OP posts:
TheFoundations · 07/10/2021 21:55

It’s not a boundary you really need to keep you safe

In terms of emotions, that's not for anybody but OP to say. None of us can measure the emotions of others, and so none of us can judge.

It’s you being ruled by fear

As would you be, someone kept putting spiders or mice (or whatever makes you flinch) in your hair, even though, objectively, there's nothing to be afraid of. Would you say, then, that for fear of hurting others, you should put up with those who do this?

I think it's a better idea to listen to our own feelings, and respect them. If you don't like something, choose not to be around it, and don't let anybody tell you different. Anybody who thinks you ought to change your boundaries according to their preference, or to save their feelings, can climb straight into the bin.

Original poster
LadybirdyBirdylady · 07/10/2021 22:03

Thank you. Yes that's exactly it

OP posts:
Riada · 07/10/2021 22:17

@RethinkingLife

You could be describing my husband except that he doesn't have the adverse life experiences.

He rushes to please people he scarcely knows at a vast cost to the people who love him. He discards that love and gives no value to it.

He has no friends. Over time, he's driven away mine.

This is my mother too. She does it because she discounts the people who love her as aspects of herself, therefore unimportant, whereas other people, including total strangers, will dislike her if she doesn’t bustle around catering to their needs.