Can life experiences make someone unlovable?

[LadybirdyBirdylady]

I don't believe that anyone is born unlovable and I believe that love is something others 'give', I suppose, rather than there being something that we do to elicit it. Maybe. I don't know!

But can people be so damaged by their life experiences that they become unlovable? That people can't see lovable qualities in them?

Even when people have come to a point through therapy or choice to 'love themselves' - confident, good self care, good boundaries, treat themselves kindly and with respect, can there still be 'something about them' that makes them unlovable to others?

@TheFoundations

It's our response to life experiences that makes us lovable or not, rather than the experiences themselves. Unless we renounce our responsibility for our responses, nothing can 'make us' anything.

You can have a bad day and respond by yelling at your partner. You can have a bad day and respond by asking your partner for a cuddle and doing something nice together.

If an experience could make a person unlovable, then everybody who had that experience would be unlovable. That's not the case with any experience, so there has to be a personal element.

Thank you.

That's what I find difficult.

To use your expamle of a bad day, telling someone about it and asking for a cuddle is exactly how I would deal with it and how I have dealt with it in the past.

I recognise that experiences are not fault but I do take responsibility for how I interact with other people.

I've had a lot of therapy over the years and done a lot of work on myself but the damage feels irreparable and irreversible.

@Bopahula

What a thought provoking thread.

I don't think I'm meant to be loved. With the exception of my DD.

My parents disliked me and certainly didn't love me.

But if you met me, I'm an outgoing social person with lots of friends. I care about them, they care about me. But love is something else. I think I have walls up that I won't ever lower. And I'm really ok with that.

I've had years of therapy to deal with lots of the issues from my childhood so I do know it's a hang over from that. But I don't think I'll move my position enough to accept being loved.

This probably describes me too! Almost exactly.

I don't know if they are walls I have though.

I've let them down with people once I trust them and it's made no difference.

@Whitechocpizza

I love my dc and I allow myself to be loved by them. I feel loved by them and we have an incredibly close bond. I've been with their Dad, my partner, for 15years and I believe he does his best to love me but I can't let him. I feel somehow violated if I let anyone who isn't one of my dc get close.

This is interesting and at the heart of what I'm thinking/asking tbh.

Despite everything, your husband loves you. He feels that he loves you and chooses to love you.

He sees something lovable in you even if you can't accept it.

I wonder of some people just aren't 'lovable' anymore.

I have an incredibly close bond with my children too and I don't question it.

Although there are (probably about 3 or 4 times) when we've had conflicts or they've been angry with me and I feel the fear of rejection/abandonment. I've wondered of eldest (20s) will stop speaking to me one day and I wonder if my youngest (15) will want to live with her dad. She doesn't and he wouldn't have her live with him but I still feel it.

I find it hard to imagine that love could be sustained over a lifetime.

In answer to your question "can there still be 'something about them that makes them unlovable to others?" the simple answer is no.

Why? Because everyone is unique in their own experiences, beliefs, thoughts, memories, prejudices and upbringing therefore one individual person can not be universally unlovable.

You can be so utterly convinced that there is something unlovable about you that you are not ever going to be worthy of being loved, and therefore behave in a way that reflects that belief. So if someone is nasty to you, that reinforces your belief and if someone is nice to you, you discount it as pity or a character flaw in that person.

Do (lots!) of more research into your core beliefs - this video is good;

Therapy is a long term process though, I think you know that. That belief from your childhood that you are unloveable and unlikeable isn't true, but it is a deeply entrenched belief that is clearly rearing it's head right now in the despair you describe and that feeling of hopelessness. It can only be met my you, alongside a therapist perhaps, but you are the only one who can convince your younger self that your conditioning was flawed and you deserve to feel loved. If you participate in this process, that will shatter areas of your life that you have probably held dear, you will learn self compassion and love and you won't even ask if anyone else loves you because it quite simply won't register on your radar. Sure you will know who you like and enjoy spending time with but you won't question so much if they like you because it will not feel as relevant. It is the child within you who is desperate for love and validation and to be liked but no one can reassure her of that but you No one else can fill this hole but you.

This is another really good explanation;

@LadybirdyBirdylady

I have an incredibly close bond with my children too and I don't question it.

Although there are (probably about 3 or 4 times) when we've had conflicts or they've been angry with me and I feel the fear of rejection/abandonment. I've wondered of eldest (20s) will stop speaking to me one day and I wonder if my youngest (15) will want to live with her dad. She doesn't and he wouldn't have her live with him but I still feel it.

I find it hard to imagine that love could be sustained over a lifetime.

You might want to look at this as well. In order for them to mature emotionally they need to reject you (sorry) and detach away. They are not responsible for making you feel loved. That's too much to ask of them. I know that we don't support this view culturally but we really need to look at why we demand love and attention whereas we as their parents are the ones who need to provide them with unconditional love and then we need to let them fly the nest and see how they want live.

About 10 years of psych involvement here. I’m quite interested in it so did a college course too.

I’m waiting until the core beliefs theory is discredited/becomes outdated and something new appears that actually works!

Which is not to say I didn’t try challenging my core beliefs daily for about 5 years.

I've had a lot of therapy over the years and done a lot of work on myself but the damage feels irreparable and irreversible

But what you're talking about is actually damage to future interactions. It can't be irreversible if it hasn't happened yet. Your responses are not at fault. although they may be what causes the damage. It's like a house on fire; the flames and the smoke cause the damage, but it's not the fire's fault; the fire is just doing its thing. The electrical spark next to the bag of shredded paper is where the fault is.

Have you got to the stage yet, with your therapy, where you can respect that your responses are simply your natural response to certain stimuli? They are not good or bad. They are like fire; lots of potential but risky when out of control.

Have you got to the stage where you know what your electrical spark is? Have you identified your bag of shredded paper?

Essentially: What triggers you?

The only area of relationships in which I do ok is with my children. One has just popped in for breakfast. He lives with his girlfriend, very happy, the career he wants etc. I don’t think I demand love and attention from him (you’d have to ask him!) I wasn’t taken anywhere as a child but he has always been very sociable and volunteered/worked abroad etc as soon as he could.

My other son is autistic and after being his sole carer for 18 years (4 years of him 24 hours a day as SEND education is appalling round here), I’d love a bit of detaching and moving away!

You might want to look at this as well. In order for them to mature emotionally they need to reject you (sorry) and detach away. They are not responsible for making you feel loved. That's too much to ask of them. I know that we don't support this view culturally but we really need to look at why we demand love and attention whereas we as their parents are the ones who need to provide them with unconditional love and then we need to let them fly the nest and see how they want live.

Oh I didn't explain that at all well.

Parenting is pretty much the only thing I feel I've got right!

My eldest lived at home through University and moved out with a flat mate earier this year. He has since moved in on his own. He has finished his degree and is working full time and enjoys being completely independent.

We speak on the phone for about an hour and a half every couple of weeks (he works away quite often midweek) and we meet up when we can. I absolutely want him (and my daughter) to fly the nest and live happy, independent and fulfilled lives.

They were more fleeting moments during disagreements but I've never said anything to them about it or made it their responsibility.

Our mum guilt tripped my brother into staying at home to keep her company and make her happy well into his twenties - I saw the damage that caused and would never have inflicted it upon them.

They are my feelings to deal with and not something that is their responsibility!

My youngest is fully aware that her life is hers to lead and I've only ever said that job is to make sure that they are equipped with the skills to live happy independent lives. They are not 'mine'.

@coffeeisthebest

Therapy is a long term process though, I think you know that. That belief from your childhood that you are unloveable and unlikeable isn't true, but it is a deeply entrenched belief that is clearly rearing it's head right now in the despair you describe and that feeling of hopelessness. It can only be met my you, alongside a therapist perhaps, but you are the only one who can convince your younger self that your conditioning was flawed and you deserve to feel loved. If you participate in this process, that will shatter areas of your life that you have probably held dear, you will learn self compassion and love and you won't even ask if anyone else loves you because it quite simply won't register on your radar. Sure you will know who you like and enjoy spending time with but you won't question so much if they like you because it will not feel as relevant. It is the child within you who is desperate for love and validation and to be liked but no one can reassure her of that but you No one else can fill this hole but you.

That's what scares me.

Everything in your post, I know you are right but I've been this way for so long. Its in every cell of my body. I would need to become a whole new person. Obviously, my values, interests and other beliefs would remain the same but my whole way of viewing myself and the world around would be so different.

I would be different.

And that scares me.

Plus I can't afford it 😁

I don't think so.
People can be sort of ignorant to forms of love that aren't what they want though. For example, some people struggle with romantic relationships for reasons that may be difficult (or even impossible) to overcome, but they will still have friends or family who care about them. Dogs will give you love for nothing more than spending time with them and feeding them.

I think you've got it in a nutshell here;

*That's what scares me.

Everything in your post, I know you are right but I've been this way for so long. Its in every cell of my body. I would need to become a whole new person. Obviously, my values, interests and other beliefs would remain the same but my whole way of viewing myself and the world around would be so different.

I would be different.

And that scares me.*

Because what happens if you do that and life still doesn't get any better, people are still arseholes and you still argue with your partner? What then?

The difference is that you will recognise that you are flawed, as is everyone else, that you will fuck up sometimes, as does everyone else, that life isn't fair or just. And you will be OK with that because you will know that, at heart, you are a good person who is capable of loving and being loved, not simply a person who is the sum of their past experiences.

@LadybirdyBirdylady

You might want to look at this as well. In order for them to mature emotionally they need to reject you (sorry) and detach away. They are not responsible for making you feel loved. That's too much to ask of them. I know that we don't support this view culturally but we really need to look at why we demand love and attention whereas we as their parents are the ones who need to provide them with unconditional love and then we need to let them fly the nest and see how they want live.

Oh I didn't explain that at all well.

Parenting is pretty much the only thing I feel I've got right!

My eldest lived at home through University and moved out with a flat mate earier this year. He has since moved in on his own. He has finished his degree and is working full time and enjoys being completely independent.

We speak on the phone for about an hour and a half every couple of weeks (he works away quite often midweek) and we meet up when we can. I absolutely want him (and my daughter) to fly the nest and live happy, independent and fulfilled lives.

They were more fleeting moments during disagreements but I've never said anything to them about it or made it their responsibility.

Our mum guilt tripped my brother into staying at home to keep her company and make her happy well into his twenties - I saw the damage that caused and would never have inflicted it upon them.

They are my feelings to deal with and not something that is their responsibility!

My youngest is fully aware that her life is hers to lead and I've only ever said that job is to make sure that they are equipped with the skills to live happy independent lives. They are not 'mine'.

Ah, well hold on to your parenting wins then as you have done an amazing job! Use that as a baseline to work from as you sit with this self judgement stuff. It sounds to me like you need some of your own parenting.

@Sarahlou63

I think you've got it in a nutshell here;

*That's what scares me.

Everything in your post, I know you are right but I've been this way for so long. Its in every cell of my body. I would need to become a whole new person. Obviously, my values, interests and other beliefs would remain the same but my whole way of viewing myself and the world around would be so different.

I would be different.

And that scares me.*

Because what happens if you do that and life still doesn't get any better, people are still arseholes and you still argue with your partner? What then?

The difference is that you will recognise that you are flawed, as is everyone else, that you will fuck up sometimes, as does everyone else, that life isn't fair or just. And you will be OK with that because you will know that, at heart, you are a good person who is capable of loving and being loved, not simply a person who is the sum of their past experiences.

Yes all of that! If you can't afford therapy, which is unfortunately too often the case, then maybe try writing to yourself compassionately? Try and be as honest as you can about how you feel and then take some time and respond to yourself in a loving and compassionate way. There are books that can help to support you. I really like Sarah Blondin 'How to hold yourself and others in love'. She has guided meditations too.

@Hen2018

The only area of relationships in which I do ok is with my children. One has just popped in for breakfast. He lives with his girlfriend, very happy, the career he wants etc. I don’t think I demand love and attention from him (you’d have to ask him!) I wasn’t taken anywhere as a child but he has always been very sociable and volunteered/worked abroad etc as soon as he could.

My other son is autistic and after being his sole carer for 18 years (4 years of him 24 hours a day as SEND education is appalling round here), I’d love a bit of detaching and moving away!

Yes, I would say the same. My eldest sounds very similar to yours. Working overseas was thwarted by covid but I was so excited for and proud of him when he was offered the post!

Do you have time rather than money? If so I'd really recommend studying CBT;

www.udemy.com/course/cognitive-behavioural-therapy-online-course-cbt-practitioner-course/

Click on the link a few times and the price will magically drop to less than £20! Lots of really thought provoking lectures, articles and homework.

As Kain say's - "Know thyself."

I think the answer to your question is no, there is nothing about you from your past that makes it objectively impossible for someone to love you. There may well be remaining defences and pain in you that so far have made it impossible to find or to accept love, but that doesn’t have to remain true into the future.

You might find the book Letting Go interesting. And maybe try doing some loving kindness meditations - there are loads on YouTube. I think meditation works on a different level than therapy. It sounds like you have reached a level of understanding from therapy, and maybe the next stage is to move on to healing. You can show yourself love even if you don’t feel it yet.

This is the book I meant www.amazon.co.uk/Letting-Surrender-M-D-David-Hawkins/dp/1401945015/ref=asc_df_1401945015/?hvlocphy=9045878&linkCode=df0&hvptwo&psc=1&psc=1&hvnetw=g&hvadid=310831936698&hvpone&hvlocint&th=1&hvpos&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl&hvqmt&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&hvtargid=pla-433783805723&hvrand=13016617208966537599

I found it hard to read but wonderful as an audio book.

I worked for a lady for a number of years. She was perfectly pleasant, socially well rounded, decently groomed and midline attractive.

But there was an air about her. Its really hard to describe it felt that she was fractured a little inside and that she was not quite.... whole.

We got stuck at a random train station for hours and hours trying to get to a training session. During this time, as the hours dragged on, she opened up about her life. Her parents disliked her, she had a childhood of being ignored by peers and friendship groups and she had moved through life feeling unloved and incapable of being loved. She had lots of therapy (and still was) . I will always remember what she said

'I am loveable, I know that. I know my therapist is right and that my past trauma doesn't shape the now. But I think in my soul, way way deep in my soul, despite rational thought and understanding, I don't really believe I am lovable and I will never ever really believe it and that is the truth of it'

I kind of thought she was right and that 'truth' was the fractured feeling that she projected outwards. It seemed to rebuff people on a totally subconscious level and ward them away. If she had a relationship the wall of her 'truth' seemed to be one people could never climb.

@TheFoundations

I've had a lot of therapy over the years and done a lot of work on myself but the damage feels irreparable and irreversible

But what you're talking about is actually damage to future interactions. It can't be irreversible if it hasn't happened yet. Your responses are not at fault. although they may be what causes the damage. It's like a house on fire; the flames and the smoke cause the damage, but it's not the fire's fault; the fire is just doing its thing. The electrical spark next to the bag of shredded paper is where the fault is.

Have you got to the stage yet, with your therapy, where you can respect that your responses are simply your natural response to certain stimuli? They are not good or bad. They are like fire; lots of potential but risky when out of control.

Have you got to the stage where you know what your electrical spark is? Have you identified your bag of shredded paper?

Essentially: What triggers you?

Interesting.

I don't know what triggers me tbh. It's just a constant ongoing thing and I very much try to keep myself safe.

I don't experience people trying to get close to me and push them away. They just don't try to get close.

I have dated men I found 'too much' and distanced myself from them but I think that was wise - lovebombing - declarations of love on the third date, telling me I'm 'different' and wonderful, and wanting to constantly chat even when we are not together are not things I want!

For example, I have a number of friends - male and female - it's not that people don't like or warm to me. I'm not hostile in any way to anyone.

I can generally express what I need and I know that if I don't feel I can do that with someone then it is the 'us' that is the problem and a communication/emotional safety issue and I leave it.

I think sometimes it feels like the difference between being 'book smart' and 'street smart' maybe. Intellectually, I've got it. Emotionally, I haven't.

I'm not sure my response is a response to what you asked though!

That's what scares me

Everything in your post, I know you are right but I've been this way for so long. Its in every cell of my body. I would need to become a whole new person. Obviously, my values, interests and other beliefs would remain the same but my whole way of viewing myself and the world around would be so different

I would be different

And that scares me

Plus I can't afford it

These are excuses. I've been where you are, but the truth is, the change is neither expensive, nor scary. It happens in your mind, so nothing has to change in your external life except ^those things you choose to change* It's not like your old familiar world just disappears; it's more that everything you have now is still available, but there are hundreds of better options. Like you've been holding a menu all your life, and every item on it is just 'Peas'. The change will reveal a full menu to you with a variety of 3 course meals, but you can still have peas if you want. You just won't want to.

As for expensive; when you realise that you are in charge of this change-of-mind, the job is practically done; just in that realisation. That's free.

What have you done, today, that shows you that you love you. Imagine that you are somebody else: what would you need that someone else to do, to make you feel really loved, and cherished? Right now; what would make you feel that?

@BreadPita

I don't think so. People can be sort of ignorant to forms of love that aren't what they want though. For example, some people struggle with romantic relationships for reasons that may be difficult (or even impossible) to overcome, but they will still have friends or family who care about them. Dogs will give you love for nothing more than spending time with them and feeding them.

I get that too.

I have my children and animals.

I suppose if I were to sum up what I want in the first instance is someone to look at me, feel lucky to have met me, feel their life is enhanced by having me in it and not see me as someone who will do until they meet someone they fall in love or want more with. That feels like a really rudimentary desire to me. It not about what it looks like at all. Not about gifts, or declarations, or how much time we spend together. Just a very fundamental - I'm glad I met this person and I don't want to lose them from my life. And for that to he because of who I am not because I fill a gap.

I've never really got beyond that even in relationships that lasted longer. They were still only 'treading water' relationships that suited both of us until they no longer did.