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Original poster

College/uni 'cliques' of grown women

72 replies

Winecurestiredness · 29/09/2021 13:06

I joined an access/adult course in nursing the beginning of September and I am happy with it over all and glad I took the step to do something with my life after 10 years being a SAHM

My social skills are a little bit rusty and I haven't really been outside of my town much. I don't drive so I think that's a factor.

Anyway.. there is a WhatsApp group for our course. We're all women and mostly mums ranging from mid 20s to mid 30s. In the beginning I got a long quite well with a few of them, but within 2 weeks it all became quite cliquey...I honestly wasn't expecting this in grown women. They all seem to have made friends very quickly, I have tried to make friends with the ones I got on ok with, but im quite quiet, not mouthy, not funny, not able to help others with their work because im not very bright. I have no work experience at all so perhaps I come across as boring. I dont think i look dull though. I like to make an effort with my looks, hair, makeup, nice clothes, im slim because I have anxiety which sometimes stops me from eating properly or at all somedays. Doing my makeup and wearing stylish clothes raises my low self esteem, it sort of feels like a mask/armour.. But maybe I should not bother so that I fit in more...im not sure.

I dont mind not having friends so much I guess as I am introverted but recently the other women have been ignoring me on the WhatsApp group or giving me very short replies, whilst theyre all sharing memes and inside jokes, planning drinks. If I try to join in a conversation, often il just be glared at. I know we are all grown ups now, but I worry about bullying, if I'm content just to be by myself, will that leave me vulnerable??

OP posts:
Original poster
Winecurestiredness · 29/09/2021 13:07

I'm 29 just to add with two kids both in primary school

OP posts:
NightVinca · 29/09/2021 13:09

I doubt you're doing anything wrong. It's just the type of people they are by the sound of it. Hopefully the people you end up working with will be nicer.

WinoLino · 30/09/2021 06:54

This sounds horrible. If you are happy to be on your own though, I would take that route as I can't see this getting much better unfortunately. They are going to encounter lots of issues as nurses with those attitudes though, meanwhile you sound lovely. Don't refer to yourself as "not bright" though 😊😊

THisbackwithavengeance · 30/09/2021 07:02

I've experienced a work situation where I was socially ostracized. I really feel for you.

However, are you sure that they are excluding you and this is not your anxiety manifesting itself?

Obviously no-one on here can say with any certainty why this has happened. Just continue being pleasant and friendly but use the non social time to concentrate on your studies. It's only a portion of your day and it's not forever.

Tellmesomethinggirl · 30/09/2021 07:08

Op, the way you describe yourself sounds like you have very low self esteem. They don't sound like very nice people but have you considered that they are reacting to the way you are projecting yourself! I am sure you are not all the things you describe. I would try and work on your own confidence and try and get to know one or two of the quieter ones as group dynamics can be quite intimidating. Just stick to your own guns - have the confidence to be yourself and plough your own furrow - and play the long game. If they have all made friends really quickly there is time enough for them to all fall out with one another! Wink

TeaandHobnobs · 30/09/2021 07:18

I find this with the mums (generally) at school. I have accepted that I’m just not comfortable in groups, and instead I put my efforts into making friends with individuals. So a little bit of light chit chat with one person who looks (as much as anyone can judge!) to be a nice friendly sort, maybe a suggestion we go for a coffee, and just gently build up that way.
I have a collection now of very nice friends - only two I really consider very close friends, but lots of lovely people I’m comfortable spending time with. But I accept that I can’t do more than a group of three without my social anxiety rearing up. I do join group stuff occasionally, but I know I don't enjoy it (and therefore probably don’t seem “fun”).

Also, WhatsApp is not real life. There are some mums who are complete knobs on WhatsApp, but they are perfectly fine to talk to one-on-one. People can be weird.

Shelddd · 30/09/2021 07:18

You will experience cliques are for life, they have cliques in senior homes. It's just human behaviour.

Probably better trying to understand the dynamic rather than shun it. Is there anyone else that's excluded or not involved as much? Maybe start messaging them outside the main chat and try and build some rapport, that's what I have done in the past when I've felt like i didn't belong in any of the main cliques.

MollyButton · 30/09/2021 07:22

I did an OU Psychology summer school once and in a chat with a Tutor he observed that at it a lot of people reverted to how they behaved when they were last in education. In your case they seem to have reverted to being in school again. And if you were bullied in school maybe you are reacting the same way too?
Is everyone on the course taking part much in this WhatsApp group? I'd step back from it and concentrate on your own goals. If you do succeed you will soon be away from this group and on your course and doing placements etc.

overnightangel · 30/09/2021 07:23

I did and access course and found a similar situation to be honest. I would just make sure you have someone in each group/tutorial you get on on with and have as like a work/study buddy where if one of you is off you can let each other know what work is missed etc and help each other with assignments , I only had 2 or 3 people I sat with and only one I considered a friend, and I did well on the course. I found a lot of people liked the idea of the course and the socialising more than actually doing the work and a fair few had dropped out by Xmas. You’ll be in uni either this time next year or the year after depending on how quickly you’re doing the course, I’d just focus on the work and having one person in each class you can pal up with . I agree it can be cliquey. Good luck with the course !

Sniv · 30/09/2021 07:43

I dont think i look dull though. I like to make an effort with my looks, hair, makeup, nice clothes, im slim because I have anxiety which sometimes stops me from eating properly or at all somedays. Doing my makeup and wearing stylish clothes raises my low self esteem, it sort of feels like a mask/armour.. But maybe I should not bother so that I fit in more...im not sure.

Do you think you are being ostracised because...you are slim? Because you do your hair, make up and have nice clothes? Really?

I don't want to pick at you, because you genuinely sound anxious and unhappy, but you saying you shouldn't bother with your looks/weight so you " fit in more" doesn't sound great on the surface - like you think they are leaving you out because you look better/are thinner and they're jealous.

OrangeTortoise · 30/09/2021 07:49

It's tricky OP. If by "cliques" you just means that some women on the course have formed a group of friends because they have more in common and get on well, then that's not bullying, it's just how things are. But social media tends to shine a light on it and make it more obvious. Maybe find one or two quieter women and start forming friendships outside of the big WhatsApp group?

daisylashes · 30/09/2021 07:59

Classic cliquey behaviour. Just remember it's not personal at all and they almost likely don't intend their meanness. The cliques function to reinforce the social status of those in the cliques when they are feeling insecure or anxious. Post a meme get a guaranteed reaction feel smug and funny etc etc in jokes and the like. You see it all the time on reality tv shows.
It's not not not personal don't waste your time wondering what's wrong with you or what have you done.
Just be your nice usual self and look out for those in the group that are more open to making out clique connections. Or joint work etc.
If you feel there are inklings of picking on you be assertive at an early stage and seek support

Cactus1982 · 30/09/2021 08:01

I think there’s a difference between a clique and a group off friends. Cliques are hostile and unwelcoming to ‘outsiders’, but friends will happily chat to anyone and be a bit more welcoming. It doesn’t really sound like these women are cliquey from what you’ve said, just that they’ve formed a friendship.

Seesawmummadaw · 30/09/2021 08:30

@Sniv

I dont think i look dull though. I like to make an effort with my looks, hair, makeup, nice clothes, im slim because I have anxiety which sometimes stops me from eating properly or at all somedays. Doing my makeup and wearing stylish clothes raises my low self esteem, it sort of feels like a mask/armour.. But maybe I should not bother so that I fit in more...im not sure.

Do you think you are being ostracised because...you are slim? Because you do your hair, make up and have nice clothes? Really?

I don't want to pick at you, because you genuinely sound anxious and unhappy, but you saying you shouldn't bother with your looks/weight so you " fit in more" doesn't sound great on the surface - like you think they are leaving you out because you look better/are thinner and they're jealous.

My thoughts too.

Op, it’s one year of your life. Delete WhatsApp and try your best academically. Use the access course for what it is, a stepping stone.

You’ll find a lot of people will have dropped out by January and the dynamics will change. You don’t need these people as friends.

Good luck with your studies.

Mrstamborineman · 30/09/2021 08:51

You aren’t doing anything wrong. They are in the honeymoon phase of friendships, which fades.
I used to and still am to a degree as you have e described and it was helped by being thinking about who I am nowadays? I am here to learn, without my children, who am I. It is hard to know, well it was for me, who to be around others anymore.
I now try to be myself and make efforts to be upbeat and friendly. Waiting to be asked never gives results ime.

Mrstamborineman · 30/09/2021 08:55

Also you have to put yourself out there, so to speak, which is daunting. But, what else can you do ??

CardiganAddict · 30/09/2021 09:41

Don't know if this helps but presenting as slim and well dressed might not work in your favour.
People (especially the UK) will read into a lot of things and then try and adjust what they do accordingly. The attractiveness and extra effort to be presentable might seem intimidating, especially if you are quiet it could be interpreted as "I don't want to talk to you" etc etc.
I'm not saying this is right! But this is my experience as someone who's always been thin until I put on >3 stone last winter. Everyone was much nicer and friendlier to me, any awkward interactions (returning items to shops or asking people not to smoke) went much smoother.
I'm guessing it made me more relatable.

user1471457751 · 30/09/2021 10:24

Maybe you come across as shallow, obsessed with looks and like you're looking down at them?

Original poster
Winecurestiredness · 30/09/2021 11:41

Sorry...I think I put that comment about my looks in the wrong way. What I meant was, am I doing something wrong, I mean 'social rules'...I struggle with that as I am a little bit on the ASD spectrum. So, I don't really know if I'm dressing too formally to be considered normal, is wearing makeup to college a weird thing to do? Is wearing heels to college a weird thing to do? Is wearing a dress in winter a weird thing to do?? That sort of thing, I struggle to understand all those common sense thing that just come naturally to others..as I said, I am on the spectrum, so please be gentle

OP posts:
Original poster
Winecurestiredness · 30/09/2021 11:45

And the only reason I do wear makeup etc is because I look about 12. I'm very petite with a baby face, and if I didn't, people would think im a child.

Sorry I know looks don't matter. I'm not shallow. I'm just paranoid and scared

OP posts:
Original poster
Winecurestiredness · 30/09/2021 11:51

I dont have bags of self confidence at all. The other ladies do, and if you believe in yourself and are confident I guess you can talk and charm your way into any role...its a gift. Its a gift that I don't have because I'm so shy. The reason I want to be a nurse is simply because I care about people. I don't think I will be the sort of nurse who makes patients laugh and smile. But hopefully I can be one that they feel they can rely on.

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Howshouldibehave · 30/09/2021 12:14

Is wearing heels to college a weird thing to do? Is wearing a dress in winter a weird thing to do??

Difficult to tell without seeing you. I would never wear a full face of makeup and heels to a lecture though, no.

You do sound incredibly anxious. Surely the group of girls aren’t

  1. Everyone in the cool crowd who are now ALL best friends, and…
  1. You.

Is there nobody else to speak to?

simitra · 30/09/2021 12:41

Sometimes being a bit "different" (for whatever reason) can creat barriers. To some extent these are self made. It depends upon how hard you want to try to fit in.

My advice would be to continue to be friendly but concentrate on your own work. Dont fall over yourself to fit in. You should never think of yourself as being "not bright". When I was 11 I thought I was a bit thick because I failed the 11 plus. I went on to get a Ph.d. so I was obviously a late starter

Prior to beginning a 1st degree course I attended an access course for mature students as my chosen uni. I found that I was quite a bit older than the other students (me in my 40s most of them in late 20s). This created a barrier. I also found that in several of the group exercises the facilitator told me I was coming across as "managerial" and that most undergraduates would find that intimidating. As I had worked as a manager for some years I did have a natural tendency to assume charge of the group if no one else stepped up.

I can't say that I got on badly with the others on the course or had any arguments but I was not close to any of them. On the final two days a lot of them were planning a party at someones house and I was not invited. This did not particularly bother me as I had long outgrown the "student party scene". However it would probably be the equivalent to your watsapp experiences. I am quite thick skinned and if I had really wanted to go to the party I would simply have asked someone for the details and rocked up with a bottle of wine.

I was more concentrated on the actual work than making friends on the course - it was only a week long anyway. I have to add that as an undergraduate I had more in common with the lecturers than the other students. There were two other mature women on my course but they quickly joined up, and we did not have much in common other than being in the same age group. I tended to socialise with the lecturers and drink in the same pub as them. I was also invited to a lot of functions that were not usually open to undergraduates. I know that created a bit of envy that I had pushed myself in.

The I had come from a professional/managerial background drove a bit of a wedge between me and the other mature undergraduates. That, and the fact that I was determined from day one to get a very good degree and then go on to do a masters.

My ambition was probably very intimidating.

Seesawmummadaw · 30/09/2021 13:31

Is wearing heels to college a weird thing to do? Is wearing a dress in winter a weird thing to do??

No, it’s not weird. It’s that how you like to dress and you feel comfortable then that’s fine.

Original poster
Winecurestiredness · 30/09/2021 13:54

@simitra thankyou. That was a very helpful reply Smile I am actually finding that I get on better with the students in their late 30s/early 40s. It is actually the students that are my age (mid to late 20s) that I'm struggling to fit in with. I have always had this issue from high school to even at young mum's groups.. I was left out of get togethers there too, so just stopped going and attended the normal baby groups as the mums over 30 were the ones I felt accepted me and I accepted them. Strange but I guess I've just never had that 'knack' to be 'one of the girls', I prefer meaningful, deep sort of friendships than the gossipy, let's laugh at everything sort of friendships.

Tbh I do find it a bit irritating when the friendship groups constantly laugh and chat while the lecturer is teaching. As pleased as I am for them..when you're sat right next to a bunch of women gossiping and being catty about other women and laughing it does make me somewhat anxious. Especially when I'm trying to concentrate, my hearing isn't great either so it's frustrating.

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