College/uni 'cliques' of grown women

[Winecurestiredness]

I joined an access/adult course in nursing the beginning of September and I am happy with it over all and glad I took the step to do something with my life after 10 years being a SAHM

My social skills are a little bit rusty and I haven't really been outside of my town much. I don't drive so I think that's a factor.

Anyway.. there is a WhatsApp group for our course. We're all women and mostly mums ranging from mid 20s to mid 30s. In the beginning I got a long quite well with a few of them, but within 2 weeks it all became quite cliquey...I honestly wasn't expecting this in grown women. They all seem to have made friends very quickly, I have tried to make friends with the ones I got on ok with, but im quite quiet, not mouthy, not funny, not able to help others with their work because im not very bright. I have no work experience at all so perhaps I come across as boring. I dont think i look dull though. I like to make an effort with my looks, hair, makeup, nice clothes, im slim because I have anxiety which sometimes stops me from eating properly or at all somedays. Doing my makeup and wearing stylish clothes raises my low self esteem, it sort of feels like a mask/armour.. But maybe I should not bother so that I fit in more...im not sure.

I dont mind not having friends so much I guess as I am introverted but recently the other women have been ignoring me on the WhatsApp group or giving me very short replies, whilst theyre all sharing memes and inside jokes, planning drinks. If I try to join in a conversation, often il just be glared at. I know we are all grown ups now, but I worry about bullying, if I'm content just to be by myself, will that leave me vulnerable??

You do sound quite derisory of them op. Which I wonder is just a defensive thing because you feel excluded.

You say you prefer deep and meaningful friendships rather than the let’s have a laugh ones, but you will never achieve deep and meaningful if you cannot do the initial light hearted one. Most friendships are a mixture of both, not one or the other, and You not knowing is possibly an indication of your lack of friendships. Look at your husband, your parents and siblings, do you never have a laugh with them, it’s always deep and meaningful? Because that sounds exhausting.

On the flip side it’s curious because you are trying to portray yourself now as much more serious than these women, far superior in intellect, you focus on lectures they giggle through them and annoy you. And yet your initial post focused heavily on how you look, and how you dress, and less about personalities and interests. And that focus is much more shallow than a group of women who have laughs together.

Right...thanks for the feedback, I will take it all on board. Now how do I close this thread, because this is starting to become unkind and boarderline abusive. No one deserves that. I haven't hurt anyone, I haven't done anything terrible, now please can we end this thread.

Let's end this on a positive note not a negative one. I am accepting of all of your advice and I am 100 per cent willing to change. I can see where I am going wrong now. Thankyou.

@Winecurestiredness It isn't abusive, OP. Some people's comments are not very nice, I agree, but 'abusive' (even borderline) is a huge overreaction. Please consider looking into counselling or self referring to a therapist if that's your response to the relatively mild criticism from strangers, here. You need to be resilient to work in healthcare

Thankyou. Just seems that I keep putting my foot in it and saying the wrong things. Maybe I am just a really awful person. Sorry

@Winecurestiredness You're not an awful person. You have some struggles, but it's nothing to be ashamed of and it doesn't make you 'bad'. In fact, you seem like a lovely person and if I was on your course I'd happily be friends with you! Keep your head up, and seriously do think about counselling for your self esteem and confidence - I didn't mention it to put you down but because I genuinely think it might help. Wishing you all the best with the course, and please don't give up on making friends!

Just seems that I keep putting my foot in it and saying the wrong things. Maybe I am just a really awful person.
You seem to be fishing for compliments by this sort of statement, 0p you seem to crave the approval of complete strangers telling you "No, you're not an awful person"

Maybe you need to try to think logically, rather than respond so emotionally? It comes across as manipulative. I know you don't intend this, so think about a positive way to respond to the comments on this thread. There are lots of reassuring & helpful comments.

There are some practical tips. Take all of that in. Where Does it get you to accuse other posters of being abusive?

Does it make you happy?

All it does is make others defensive and increase that negative self-talk that you started the thread with. What you describe in your opening post sounds like pretty normal social interaction to me. At least you’re in the WhatsApp group.

Look at the positives: you’re doing a course which will increase your knowledge and qualifications, you’re meeting new people, and learning new things. That is all good stuff. Celebrate it!!

Thankyou. I'm willing to change. I really don't know what is wrong with me, hopefully I can seek therapy and be a better person.

By P2, I was going to say that I'm glad you are taking on board things people have said, even when they weren't what you wanted to hear. I am inclined to agree with pp who have said that (from your posts - I have no idea how you are in real life) you are coming over as being somewhat obsessed with your looks and that can present to others as being quite "shallow, obsessed with looks and like you're looking down at them?".
However, accusing people of being abusive is not fair nor true.

Yes, as you have asked, wearing high heels and a full face of make up will make you unusual at a college - surely you can see that by looking around? It is 100% fine to wear what you want / dress how you want / adopt a 'look' that is different from everyone else, but most people will do that with confidence and self belief. If you want to 'fit in' , then perhaps you might want to do what everyone else is doing.

I also get annoyed when people equate 'some people forming friendship groups' as being 'a clique' so often on MN. It is perfectly normal, and acceptable that some people either just click with someone that sat next to / started chatting to and not with others, and it is perfectly normal for people who travel in together get to know one another better, and it is perfectly feasible that some knew each other from before. However, from what you say, everyone is in the WhatsApp group so not excluding anyone.

And I don't mean being better than other people I really don't. I just mean getting rid of some of my bad behaviours. I need to work on myself...massively.

Yes I am sorry about that. I didnt really think properly before posting, I was just upset and I don't even know why. It's ridiculous. I need to get help. Thankyou for your insights and advice all.

I never used to care about my looks actually. And I was confident. But then I got Lymphoma at age 24, I lost my hair, my eyelashes, and I went into menopause, still in menopause at 29. I know I'm very very lucky to have survived and have 2 DCs (before cancer) and I am so greatful. But to tell the truth I have really struggled as a young person to adjust to this 'new normal'..I met a fellow patient and make up artist on the teenage cancer Trust ward I was on, she was amazing, someone I looked up to, she would tell me about how makeup made her feel more positive and brave, and encouraged me to go to a 'look good feel better' makeup session for people with cancer. And from then on I sort of became obsessed. I suppose being on the spectrum, I took it too literally "look good feel better, it will give you confidence' but I took it too far. It was a low point in my life and and taking control of my appearance became the only thing I felt like I could do.

Quite the dripfeed there, OP.

I’m sorry you went through such a traumatic time and are well now. I agree with others that seeking help for your insecurities is a good route to take. All the best for your future.

What is dripfeeding? Sorry I just know that cancer is a very sensitive subject, I didn't want to trigger anyone. I was just thinking out really "I wonder why I've become obsessed with appearance" it was 4 years ago now, so I thought perhaps I was 'over it' and 'moved on' but I don't think I have and its contributed to me being insecure and unsure of who I am. I didnt become like this overnight. I need to figure out why I'm like this so I can seek the right help...

Have you considered that you might have depression, OP? If not, could be worth speaking to your GP about. I found that going on medication for a while helped deal with this type of thoughts.

Yes I was diagnosed with depression in 2019, the year after I went into remission. Not much of a suprise there I guess, most people would feel depressed after something like that. I'm on Sertraline, maximum dose 200mg.

It's not just the event, either - the menopause has the same effect. Are you on HRT? You'd do well to speak to your doc again to see what else you could do - new therapy, change of meds.

Yes I take a daily HRT pill. Indivina I think its called..

Always worth seeing if anything can be changed, if things are not working as well as they should :) And maybe think about doing something sporty, if you aren't already. I started running and it helps calm me down.

Going through a major illness like that is traumatising - you probably still have a lot of mental and emotional processing to do. It's truly very normal that you're not magically feeling fine again, and also that does help to explain why you feel out of step / struggle a bit to connect with others. Most of the students have not been through what you have.

None of that means that you can't make friends, I promise! But be gentle with yourself, seek help when you can, and forgive yourself when things are hard. You can work on the things you're struggling with - but self compassion is really important after trauma. Your body and mind are probably experiencing the world as quite scary because it genuinely has been a hard life for you, much harder than average. You can still be happy, still study and have friends and live a good life. But you will find your own path to doing that.

Thankyou @Innocenta

What is dripfeeding?

When a poster adds in quite crucial information later, after lots of people have given advice / opinions / suggestions based only on the information originally given. Where that information (that is added later) might have meant previous posters might have replied differently.