College/uni 'cliques' of grown women

[Winecurestiredness]

I joined an access/adult course in nursing the beginning of September and I am happy with it over all and glad I took the step to do something with my life after 10 years being a SAHM

My social skills are a little bit rusty and I haven't really been outside of my town much. I don't drive so I think that's a factor.

Anyway.. there is a WhatsApp group for our course. We're all women and mostly mums ranging from mid 20s to mid 30s. In the beginning I got a long quite well with a few of them, but within 2 weeks it all became quite cliquey...I honestly wasn't expecting this in grown women. They all seem to have made friends very quickly, I have tried to make friends with the ones I got on ok with, but im quite quiet, not mouthy, not funny, not able to help others with their work because im not very bright. I have no work experience at all so perhaps I come across as boring. I dont think i look dull though. I like to make an effort with my looks, hair, makeup, nice clothes, im slim because I have anxiety which sometimes stops me from eating properly or at all somedays. Doing my makeup and wearing stylish clothes raises my low self esteem, it sort of feels like a mask/armour.. But maybe I should not bother so that I fit in more...im not sure.

I dont mind not having friends so much I guess as I am introverted but recently the other women have been ignoring me on the WhatsApp group or giving me very short replies, whilst theyre all sharing memes and inside jokes, planning drinks. If I try to join in a conversation, often il just be glared at. I know we are all grown ups now, but I worry about bullying, if I'm content just to be by myself, will that leave me vulnerable??

I think you might be overthinking this. Just go to the course, be friendly when you can and do your thing. With respect it comes across as if you're perhaps trying to find fault with these women who are just doing their thing - they're too chatty, laugh too much, don't dress smartly, too scruffy, too cliquey ... Groups tend to shake out with everyone eventually finding a place where they are happy or at least in a place they can tolerate.

The thing is, if you came across as feeling comfortable in your skin, you could probably turn up in a bathrobe and people would accept you as eccentric, hilarious, bonkers but a good laugh. etc. Whereas you could carry out a survey of most-worn items of clothing and appear looking like every other person there, but act stiffly or uncomfortably and make other feel ill at ease too. Go in a "safe" outfit you like and feel comfortable wearing.

Oh god I'm terrible at saying something and it coming across as something else sorry. I don't think they're scruffy at all. In fact a lot of them a very beautiful. I just wish I could have a few friends like they do, that's all..it would be nice to feel accepted. Doesn't everyone just want to feel accepted??

I've always been on the outside. Very rarely did it really bother me. My course was mostly men and they were all also extremely cliquey. To be honest I just didn't have the engery for it all.

Delete the group and sit far away from them. Look at other people on the course. Are there other people on their own? Maybe start a conversation with them if you wish.

Life is too short for this catty rubbish. At the end of the day you're there to do your course and get on in your chosen career. You'll meet plenty of people who behave in this way. I worked in the NHS and saw my share of people, admin, nurses and Drs who were like this. Just let them get on with it. Be the best you can and professional.

If you're really bothered to the extent it's effecting your studies you could ask your college/uni if they have some kind of additional support for people on the spectrum which may help you, but certainly look at the others on the course. You won't be the only one not included.

Frankly trying to fit in won't work. You'll just end up feeling even worse.

I admit I am quiet, shy and awkward. I wish there were books or lessons or something just to teach me how to interact with people...

@Becca19962014 thankyou, some very good advice there

I think it's a great step you've taken, making something of your career again, don't let your anxieties put you off or you'll be really annoyed with yourself later.

Agree that the best thing is to find one or two people you feel comfortable with - or even embrace your introversion, as it can be a strength, and really buckle down to your studies; could give you an advantage :)

I wouldn’t overthink this at all, I know how easily done it is though. I have found similar at toddler groups tbh, I’m younger than most Mum’s and they all seem to already know one another (small town and I’m an outsider having only moved here 3 years ago). They all sit chatting and it’s rare for anyone to strike up conversation with me, I tend to get ignored entirely.

It can be upsetting but also think there’s some personal responsibility if you’re quiet and introverted as I am. It’s unlikely to be anything personal, they just click better with one another.

@Winecurestiredness youre welcome. Good luck with your course!

Thanks everyone for your advice. Even the not so kind comments, they have given me a reason to reflect about how negatively I might come across, its a bit of a kick up the arse and a reality check but a good one

If your hearing is not too good dont be afraid to sit on the front row, closest to the lecturer. I always did! And the advice to to try chatting to some of the other loners is a good one. Maybe strike up a casual conversation and suggest something non committal like a coffee and take it from there.

I recognise the disordered thinking of a fellow anxiety sufferer. It can be hell.

Saying 'don't overthink this' is a bit like telling a depressed person to cheer up. But the reality is that your anxiety is most likely blowing all those small negative things out of proportion.

Have you ever done any cognitive behavioural therapy? There are good free apps and programmes out there which help you to recognise the negative thoughts and change the way you deal with them.

Hi , you sound lovely . Perhaps the hair , make up , clothes is an issue . Your remark about it being a mask /armour resonated completely with me .
I have depression & severe anxiety but hiding it is crucial to me . I'm slim , blonde & neatly dressed , minimal make up but always , always liooy & mascara . Statement earrings are a crucial part of the armour . Perfume too . I'm quiet & shy . I have had comments about how I present myself all my adult life . Been questioned by neighbours about why I wear make up to the village shop / garden centre etc . Comments have been made to my husband whilst I've been standing next to him ie "does she always look this posh " I've been told several times I look intimidating . As I'm short & quiet I'm baffled by this . I think how you present could be an issue but don't change . I do what's right for me & what gets me through the day .

Just one thought…I’m an introvert and used to be not very confident socially- still am in some situations

I nice had some feedback from work that outside my technical arena people thought I was aloof, standoffish or looked down on them, because I didn’t engage in random chat or “banter”. I was quite shocked as so far from the truth As I was one that was doubting myself and felt they all knew each other and I was excluded.
It was helpful to know that this was how I was perceived
I went out my way to engage in small ways, and push myself to interact into these groups I thought were shutting me out.
It did work in most cases- I am now retired but still do push myself to engage with people and start conversations however brief with groups.
It’s not easy so good luck

To me you sound quite judging and obsessed with looks and how people are dressed.
It’s not for people to form friendships with others they get on well with. That’s life, men do it too but it’s not called ‘cliquey’ when men do it.
To be honest if I felt someone was judging me by my clothes and looks, I wouldn’t be very friendly to them either.

That should normal and not for

A dress and heels actually does sound a little bit overdressed to me, yes. But it depends on what sort of dress! Some dresses can be quite low-key and wouldn't be out of place at all. I do think it sometimes creates a bit of a negative impression to appear consistently overdressed (speaking as someone who did this myself when I was younger, also because of anxiety and insecurity).

Surely it's really early days? I would battle on - just be pleasant and work hard. It does sound like you thought this move would open up friendships for you. I think cliques happen when people are NOT particularly confident and happy in their skin so move to 'friendships' wiht similar people so imv many of these cliques won't last much beyond the initial month or so.
Concentrate on learning meanwhile.

What you describe isn’t bullying. It’s a friendship group. No one has the right to be included in a friendship group.

You’re there to learn. Get on with that and start to deal with your low self-esteem. Perhaps try some deliberate and conscious “talking back” to that voice in your head that tells you that you’re boring or not very bright. You got onto the course, you have ambitions, you can think! Counter negative self-talk with these positive truths.

You will find your people, and it won’t be because you’re slim or the clothes or make up you wear. It’ll be because you are a kind and interested person. You sound kind and you sound interested in other people and the world. Keep being that!

I assume the WhatsApp group will become more study focussed soon. In my masters group there are groups going out to drinks (we're all welcome) as it's induction right now. I am older than most of them so probably won't be great mates with them and I don't imagine I'd be invited to a house party. But loads of them are contacting me privately for advice on course selection as I seem to know what I am doing.
Once lectures start I expect the social chatter to move to private groups more and the chat kept for study questions. But currently everyone is just trying to make friends.

Snooze the group chat. Be polite to everyone, but invest your time in people who you like, and who are genuine- no matter what their age.

Good luck on your course 😊

OP you describe them as being catty about other women but then you say this:

Strange but I guess I've just never had that 'knack' to be 'one of the girls', I prefer meaningful, deep sort of friendships than the gossipy, let's laugh at everything sort of friendships.

That does sound like you look down on them somewhat, like you see yourself as ‘not like other girls’. If that’s the vibe you’re giving off then maybe that’s why they don’t include you.
So what if they’re not having deep and meaningful conversations, maybe they are there to have fun rather than learn, that’s on them and I guess will show up in their results at the end of the year.

If the noise is bothering you, then tell the tutor or move and sit somewhere else.

Hmm it’s hard to tell it seems they have just formed a friendship group. Other than the glaring thing

Is it odd to wear heels a dress and a full face of make up to lectures, well look around you, are others doing this? Generally students are very casually dressed. You don’t need to dress to fit in, you need to be you, but if fitting in with your appearance is important then look at what they wear

You do talk a lot about how you look and dress. Which I understand comes from low self esteem but can come across as shallow and vain to others.

They're just mates who enjoy a good laugh and a chat together. If you enjoyed those things too, you'd probably be part of the group. I'm sure you're as interesting as they are, but if you sit saying nothing they'll assume you have nothing to say.

I've always been in the chatty groups at school and work etc, they're for chatty people. But what I value most of all are the three quality friendships I've made in my life, with people who understand me and who know me very well.

If you just chat with one person, this kind of friendship is much more likely to flourish. Sitting on the sidelines while others provide the entertainment will make you seem like you aren't interested.

You said they are giggly and you prefer deep meaningful conversations. You also say you wear heels to lectures and dress up, students do tend to dress more casually. But you admit yourself you don’t like the kind of chats they are having so you are sort of wanting to be included in something you don’t actually like.

I have always been a bit other but in the opposite way to you. I have never cared about my appearance very much and never dress up or wear make up. I also like deep meaningful conversations but I learned at school to actually fit in you do need to push that requirement aside and join in with the chatter you are not interested in. I’m also anxious, I have been diagnosed with anxiety amongst other stuff so it’s not just a guess.

I have found groups tend to do chatter with the odd bit of meaningful stuff and meaningful stuff is often one to one or very small group. Plus as it’s only a couple of weeks people are sussing each other out. If any of them share a really strong opinion they risk being ostracised plus who wants to share intimate details of their life to people they hardly know. Never a good idea.

I would imagine you come across as a bit aloof, maybe your face gives away how much you dislike idle chatter. Some people are really good at masking how they feel and some aren’t. I know I can mask how I feel easily, that’s due to having to as a child.