Relationship with MiL recoverable?

[Thistledew]

I honestly don't know whether it is worth it to even try.

DH and I have been together 12 years, married for 8. No major conflicts in our relationship at all but admittedly with a now 5 yr old DC who has always been particularly demanding of attention and now a 17 month old we have let things slide so we are not as affectionate and emotionally close as we once were.

I did get on well with MiL to start with, but once DC1 came along we spent more time together as she (at her request) did help us out a lot with childcare, I found her company more and more uncomfortable.

I put a lot of it down to differences in communication- she is far more of an emotional communicator and my primary instinct is to focus on facts and logic. She communicates very frequently with statements rather than questions so by the time I've worked out what she really was intending to ask, the moment has moved on, she is put out because I've not responded in the way she was hoping and I'm left drained by having to second guess her. This is just by way of an illustration to try and convey why I constantly feel on edge in her presence. I also find her quite judgmental and resistant to seeing things from a different perspective.

Despite this I've done my best to welcome her as part of the family. My DC love her and she has this summer given us a lot of her time in childcare. I acknowledge that she doesn't have the relationship she would like with a DiL but I can't seem to change her expectations of me being someone that she can waffle on to about what her friends children have done on holiday.

It has now come to light that DH has felt that our relationship has not been good for some time. That there are things he feels are really not working well. He has been bottling these up, even when I have asked him directly what's wrong.

One of the reasons that he hasn't talked these out with me is that his mother has been dripping in his ear how emotionally unavailable I am, how everyone finds me cold and unfriendly, how I'm rude and ungrateful, how I don't have time for anyone but the children and myself. In the many times he has spoken to her about how he feels unhappy with certain aspects of our relationship she has not once suggested that he speak to me about them. Apparently, and in the absence of any evidence to suggest the fears are well founded, she, and then he, have been 'scared' to confront me about these issues.

I'm really hurt, and furious that she has been so poisonous in our relationship. I think DH and I will be ok but we do need to communicate better.

The only thing stopping me refusing to have any thing more to do with her is that she currently is not at all well, and is waiting for the outcome of investigations into ovarian cancer.

Apart from that, it is worth my while trying to recover any sort of relationship with her?

And to make it doubly worse, he doesn’t seem to want to talk to the OP about his issues! That’s just fundamentally unfair!

TBH I think the mil is being given an unfair ride here.

The OP said that her DH has been confiding in his mother and she has shared her thoughts with him.

But we don’t know what, and how, the DH has been confiding in his mother.

You only have to look on here to see that people will respond to the information they’ve been given. So a poster comes on here and talks about their problems with their DH, and posters give their opinions based on what has been said. The OP is a case in point here.

It would be easy then for a poster to go back to her dh and say “I talked about some things on MN and the MN’ers were of the opinion that I should leave you, but that would of course depend on how those problems are talked about. Post “my husband never does anything around the house, we have 3 children and he doesn’t lift. Finger,” and posters will start crying LTB. When actually it could be that the husband works 18 hour days, has to commute to/from work, and the OP is a SAHM to 3 school-aged children, which changes the information posters are being given massively, and as such would change their response to the OP.

The issue here is the DH. You need to sort out the problems with your husband rather than focusing on your MIL.

WRT eating, I can sort of relate here.

I have a serious heart condition, and I have been through periods where I ate very little. I just had no appetite. I know in my heart of hearts that I need to, but I can’t bring myself to, I will eat when I’m hungry.

So when my DP rings and asks what I’v eaten, or when my mum texted my DP to make sure I ate one weekend, it felt to me as if I was being disempowered, no matter how well-meaning it was.

You are well-meaning, but this is potentially a situation where your MIL feels she has no control over her life. The survival rates for ovarian cancer aren’t good, and the treatment regime is horrendous. She is likely in a state where she knows that she may have to give over her life to medical professionals if the diagnosis comes back negatively, and if this happens she doesn’t know when, or even if, she will get that control back.

You say she communicates in obscure ways and by the sounds of it, so does he

Your lives would be better if you communicate better

Can you look at counseling? so that there is a (safe) third party that is there to facilitate flow of communications and help you get on a better footing

I do think that you need to be direct with your H and tell him that you will do whatever it takes to make things better, but he also has to commit to that and this means that your marriage is NOT a conversation between him and his mother

The survival rates for ovarian cancer aren’t good, and the treatment regime is horrendous.

Yes. This really isn't the time to give up on her, however irritating you find her.
Simply tell your DH that there are two reasons not to discuss your relationship with her. 1- loyalty to you and 2 - because he's giving her something else to worry about when she's got enough to deal with.

@Thistledew your MIL sounds like hard work and as though she's enjoyed being offended by you, and encouraging your DH to feel the same.

BUT it feels as though you are focussing on your issues with her to avoid the real issue - your DH. You say she didn't advise him to come and talk to you when she should have. But what grown man needs his mum to tell him to talk to his wife? It's pretty pathetic that he's confiding in his mum - someone who he knows doesn't particularly like you. He has created this particular problem.

Your DH has chosen not to confide in you, even when you've asked him what's wrong, but calls you emotionally unavailable.. does he understand this makes no sense?

You feel there is a chance with your relationship, and that's great. But you both need to put in equal effort. Admit your failings and shortcomings. Be honest about when you need from each other, and whether you can give the other what they need. And to stand a chance, you need to agree that your MIL is not a part of your relationship. She is a relative on the sidelines of it. He needs to stop bitching about you to his mum.

You can then show your MIL a united front as a couple, both supporting her in her illness, showing her you are a loving happy couple (if that is what you are) and that her opinions are not relevant to your marriage.

I would also suggest stopping using her for childcare. She is ill anyway, so perhaps not best for her or the children. But she is also enjoying the power that gives her.

I think you have two problems…. DH problem - and a MIL problem. Firstly, I would like to know if your DH has been complaining to her about your marriage. That’s inappropriate. She’s his mum, not a guidance counsellor. Why is a grown man crying to mummy about his wife instead of talking to his wife? (If that is actually what is happening… Maybe he is manipulating you by giving you by telling you what HE thinks and feels, but saying his mother says these things.) Next, your MIL might be attempting to deflect attention from an eating disorder by directing attention towards your “faults”. This is a well-known tactic used by many people with MH problems.

@saraclara

The survival rates for ovarian cancer aren’t good, and the treatment regime is horrendous.

Yes. This really isn't the time to give up on her, however irritating you find her.
Simply tell your DH that there are two reasons not to discuss your relationship with her. 1- loyalty to you and 2 - because he's giving her something else to worry about when she's got enough to deal with.

This really.

Sidestep the fallout - she's ill, and it may get much worse yet. I know you have been incredibly hurt by her actions, and it's ok to tell your husband how hurt you are, but from now on, your relationship stuff stays at home.

If you get lambasted for doing a lovely thing like getting her things that are easy to eat for her, that's caring in anyone's language. If she's got an eating disorder and didn't appreciate it or felt defensive of your kindness, that's on her. But it's really not the time to address it.

You can ask your husband how you can support her during this time, but honestly your thoughtfulness is unappreciated so maybe you should do the big Get Well Soon bouquet, or nice PJs or other things that seems to be more her language, but it's possible that the dislike she has for you means that ANY gesture by you is found wanting, so don't put yourself out too much over it.

Please! MiL does not have an eating disorder or mental health problems. She is being investigated for ovarian cancer. When something goes wrong with your ovaries the most common symptom is digestive problems. That's why it's too often diagnosed late. The GP goes down the IBS route and it's only when that's a dead end that gynae-scans and blood tests enter the picture.

And b.t.w. ginger biscuits are often recommended as a way of getting something, anything, down.

Op. I think you should use your intellect and factual/logical bias to do some googling to inform yourself, but use great restraint in sharing what you find out, except to your dh. Mil needs a hug or a hand squeeze more at the moment than a lecture on nutrition.

It sounds to me like your and your MIL are not particularly close. You don't seem to respect or like her and she may well feel the same about you. Meanwhile, the real issue here is your DH - if he's been unhappy, he should be talking to you about it. I mean, the DC example is a classic one - what is he doing while he's getting so stressed about kids being late? Is he doing anything? Is he asking you to please make it quicker? It's ridiculous that this is an example of him being unhappy when it's such an easy fix.

Also agree with a PP, while there may well be disordered eating as part of your MIL's history, I think you need to be a little more understanding of how she might be behaving/reacting as a result of her illness. SIL gets very upset and cross with MIL about her eating and while it comes from a place of care and concern, at least half the time she's basing her concerns on completely incorrect information. Which just makes things more difficult.

@saraclara

I'm just curious. There are so many threads on here where MNers have really close relationships with their mothers. Does no one here ever share their relationship concerns with their mother?

I never have, but it's because I have a really poor relationship with her. But I'm sure that friends have, if I'm recalling past conversations correctly.

Is it one of those things that if a partner does it, it's disloyal, but if we do it, it's 'needing a shoulder to cry on'?

I thought this too, then read that the OP's husband hadn't even tried to talk to her about the things that he was struggling with.

Male or female, if therés a problem you'd expect to try to sort it out with your partner first!

Bathmouthing you behind your back to his mother is really, really low. I agree that the primary relationship issue you have is with him, not your MIL (she wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't).

It is maybe fair enough to discuss your relationship problems with family or friends if you have already discussed them with your partner and are looking for advice or support, but to actually state to you that there were no problems when you outright asked him and then continue moaning about you with his mother is awful.

I would go so far as to say he has betrayed your trust AND lied to you and would need these things to be addressed to be able to move forward.

@Thistledew

I'd be interested in what other children did in the holidays just as a point of connection with the person telling me and as ideas for my own children.

These are grown up children. I have no interest in what two adults that I have never met did in a part of the country I don't intend to visit, and especially when this is a conversation in the middle of my working day when my head is full of work issues.

I’m afraid this comes across as cold and emotionally unavailable. I think this post is a bit high handed. With in laws, unless they are complete twats, I find there’s a certain amount of head nodding with mouth zipped is required. My MIL loves talking about relatives latest medical issues and believe me I had no interest in a story about colostomy bag adhesive. She doesn’t sound like a bad person, just on a different wave length to you. I think you need to try a bit harder to not be as short with her. You were kind to sort her food out though.

Your DH has chosen not to confide in you, even when you've asked him what's wrong, but calls you emotionally unavailable.. does he understand this makes no sense?

He did look abashed when I pointed this out and has said that he can see that he was wrong not to talk to me about how he was feeling. But I'm not sure whether it has properly sunk in how much this issue was of his own making. He said that both he and his MiL were too scared to 'confront' me but then couldn't think of a single time that I've reacted unkindly or dismissively to any emotional discussion.

That has stopped and won't be resumed. I will be very wary of her having sole care of either of them and will make it quite clear that she is not to denigrate me to the DC. If DH wants to make arrangements for her to see them he is welcome to do so but it's not something I will facilitate.

@Blackbird2020

To be fair, as difficult as the relationship with your MIL sounds, I think your biggest problem is your DH.

Hell would freeze over before it would be acceptable for my DH to discuss marital issues with his mother!

Your DH’s frankness with his mother has probably been the driving force behind the increasing communication difficulties you are now experiencing with her. She likely feels empowered by him choosing her to talk to, as opposed to you.

Honestly, she sounds like a symptom of your problems with DH, as opposed to the cause.

This! With bells on!

@Thistledew

That has stopped and won't be resumed. I will be very wary of her having sole care of either of them and will make it quite clear that she is not to denigrate me to the DC. If DH wants to make arrangements for her to see them he is welcome to do so but it's not something I will facilitate.

I meant this in relation to the childcare.

Next, your MIL might be attempting to deflect attention from an eating disorder by directing attention towards your “faults”.

I do wonder if this might be part of it. The disordered eating is something I've observed for years. She has always been on the borderline of heathy/underweight (and admits to putting weights in her pockets to be heavy enough to donate blood). She eats a limited diet and the foods she does or does not eat changes frequently. She actively avoids eating food when she is anxious but tries to hide it. I'm not qualified to make a diagnosis, but to me that looks like disordered eating.

I've never been unkind to her about this but at the same time I'm probably one of the few people who hasn't accepted her reassurances that she is of a heathy weight and eats well. I've seen her bent over, coughing from another recurrent chest infection with every bone in her spine visible through her T-shirt too many times.

When something goes wrong with your ovaries the most common symptom is digestive problems. That's why it's too often diagnosed late. The GP goes down the IBS route and it's only when that's a dead end that gynae-scans and blood tests enter the picture.

That's possibly why she is so scared at the moment. Both I and DH have over the last couple of years encouraged her to see a Dr when she has claimed to be full after eating a portion half the size of that which my string bean 5 yr old manages. But she has always responded that she is fine and not worried about her appetite.

If I feel ill I hate being pressurised go eat. I’ll eat when I’m ready and hate it being brought up as it can make me feel more unwell. In honesty I’ve no idea how you are with her as we are hearing one side BUT it’s odd he’s discussing issues with his mum and not you. That’s the part that is odd.

I mean, the DC example is a classic one - what is he doing while he's getting so stressed about kids being late? Is he doing anything? Is he asking you to please make it quicker? It's ridiculous that this is an example of him being unhappy when it's such an easy fix.

I know! We do have a reasonable division of chores. He makes us tea and does DD's nappy then makes us all breakfast. I get the bags ready and usually dress DS* and DD on her nursery days whilst DH showers. One or other of us will do 10 mins reading with DS most days. DH does the school run.

DH complained that I don't move with any extra urgency when he says that he wants to leave in 10 mins. I asked him if we are ever late, and he admitted that we are not. So despite me getting ready at a calm pace and not rushing around like a mad thing we are always bang on time.

But this apparently makes DH feel stressed as he hates the idea of being late. The daft thing is that we wake up early so it's not a problem at all to be ready to walk out of the house 10 or 15 mins earlier.

He didn't raise this with me as he expected me to 'know' that this is the reason he is often grumpy in the morning.

*well, supervise DS but he needs prompting.

I would go so far as to say he has betrayed your trust AND lied to you and would need these things to be addressed to be able to move forward.

I don't know if he has truly appreciated that he has messed up. I agree that I'm not perfect and that I do need to give more attention to our relationship rather than taking it for granted, but there is no way I can fix it all myself, particularly if I haven't been told what the problem is.

I think you need to try a bit harder to not be as short with her.

I have really tried. I made a decision earlier this year to try my best to act and think as if I enjoy her company in the hope that it would replace my negative feelings towards her.

But today, when I've thought about the fact that I have a really good reason to have only minimal contact with her I get a feeling of utter relief and like a weight is removed from my shoulders. It's almost a physical sensation and the only other time I've felt that peace was when I split from an abusive ex-boyfriend. I really wish I could understand why she makes me feel so uncomfortable, but this has made me realise just how tense I was feeling when I was around her and how much I dreaded the two days a week she would come to us to look after DD.

@DifficultBloodyWoman

Put your relationship with your MIL on the back burner. If you don’t get your relationship with your DH sorted out, it will be irrelevant any way.

Organise at least a couple of sessions of marriage counselling so that you cann5alk about this and about how you expect to communicate with each other in the future.

You’ve been very kind to your MIL regarding meals and if she has accused you of bulling, it seems like you just can’t win at the moment. I’d back off on food since that is what she Isco planning about but take the kids to see her and do things like hang out the laundry. She can’t complain about that (I hope) but it also doesn’t involve much emotional engagement from you.

But put your relationship with DH first. Otherwise you won’t need a relationship with her.

This a thousand times over

I do wonder as well whether her outburst that I am not grateful enough to her for providing childcare came because when she said that due to her health she didn't think she would be able to help us out anymore, and my reaction was "That's ok. Please don't worry about it. We will sort something out until more days become available at DD's nursery". I thought underplaying the difficulties it will cause us was the best thing, so that she didn't worry about letting us down.

But maybe the response she was after was to hear how she is utterly indispensable to us and how awful this is for me.

I can see that maybe fears of her mortality might make her want to hear how central she is to our lives and how much we will miss her help.

But dripping vitriol about me into DH's ear is still unforgivable.

She accuses me of being emotionally stunted but either she has completely failed to see the harm she was doing to her son's marriage- and accordingly the threat to her grandchildren's happiness, or she is literate enough to appreciate this and is vindictive enough to do it anyway.

I don't see it as my job to find out and/or fix and will make it my priority to protect my family. Either way I will find it very very hard to forgive her.

I think indeed pull back gently from your MIL.
She may not have long.

I think your focus should be on your husband.
His betrayal of you is massive and prolonged.
I don't know if I could get over such a betrayal.

He sounds like a whiny spoiled man and I think him so comprehensively bad mouthing you to his mother about your coldness while he refuses your efforts to talk as the very essence of dishonesty and disloyalty.

His lack of accountability makes moving forward very difficult IMO.

You sound very reasonable.