Relationship with MiL recoverable?

[Thistledew]

I honestly don't know whether it is worth it to even try.

DH and I have been together 12 years, married for 8. No major conflicts in our relationship at all but admittedly with a now 5 yr old DC who has always been particularly demanding of attention and now a 17 month old we have let things slide so we are not as affectionate and emotionally close as we once were.

I did get on well with MiL to start with, but once DC1 came along we spent more time together as she (at her request) did help us out a lot with childcare, I found her company more and more uncomfortable.

I put a lot of it down to differences in communication- she is far more of an emotional communicator and my primary instinct is to focus on facts and logic. She communicates very frequently with statements rather than questions so by the time I've worked out what she really was intending to ask, the moment has moved on, she is put out because I've not responded in the way she was hoping and I'm left drained by having to second guess her. This is just by way of an illustration to try and convey why I constantly feel on edge in her presence. I also find her quite judgmental and resistant to seeing things from a different perspective.

Despite this I've done my best to welcome her as part of the family. My DC love her and she has this summer given us a lot of her time in childcare. I acknowledge that she doesn't have the relationship she would like with a DiL but I can't seem to change her expectations of me being someone that she can waffle on to about what her friends children have done on holiday.

It has now come to light that DH has felt that our relationship has not been good for some time. That there are things he feels are really not working well. He has been bottling these up, even when I have asked him directly what's wrong.

One of the reasons that he hasn't talked these out with me is that his mother has been dripping in his ear how emotionally unavailable I am, how everyone finds me cold and unfriendly, how I'm rude and ungrateful, how I don't have time for anyone but the children and myself. In the many times he has spoken to her about how he feels unhappy with certain aspects of our relationship she has not once suggested that he speak to me about them. Apparently, and in the absence of any evidence to suggest the fears are well founded, she, and then he, have been 'scared' to confront me about these issues.

I'm really hurt, and furious that she has been so poisonous in our relationship. I think DH and I will be ok but we do need to communicate better.

The only thing stopping me refusing to have any thing more to do with her is that she currently is not at all well, and is waiting for the outcome of investigations into ovarian cancer.

Apart from that, it is worth my while trying to recover any sort of relationship with her?

@saraclara

I think I will have to get in first with some other bits of the family and put my side across, even though I really hate badmouthing people behind their backs.

Please don't. You'll be playing into her hands if you're negative about her to other members of the family.

You're just two entirely different people. Neither of you are at fault in not 'clicking' with each other. Also, unlike a pp, I think you did have to bear in mind what she's going through with this possible cancer diagnosis. Ovarian is a shitty one. The may thing you want to do is add to her stress or be moaning about her to others, if the news is really bad.

I'm a logical introvert. But I'm also an effusive thanker. I struggle with people who blather on about people I don't know, but I'm touched by acts of kindness, even if it is just hanging up my washing.

Tbh, it's easier for you to make a bit more effort to show warmth and gratitude, than it is for her not to. If she's doing regular childcare, a bit of warmth and gratitude is surely a normal response?

Then I'd simply ask DH not to discuss your relationship with her again, and focus on the two of you trying to put it right.

This is great advice.

It sounds so unhealthy, the DH complaining to his mum about his wife.

He’s created some kind of weird triangular relationship problem by inappropriately complaining to his mum about you.

How she responds to it really isn’t the point, you didn’t marry her, she owes you nothing.

I think your DH needs to understand that he’s seriously undermining his relationship with the mother of his children. It’s corrosive and could have long-term implications for his own children (if you split up off the back of this).

If he wants to stay in the marriage then he needs to stop whining to his mum and bring something positive and constructive to the table, the table he shares with his wife, not his mum!

It’s almost like he’s forgotten you’re his wife, it’s more like siblings complaining to their parents about each other’s behaviour

Hope this isn't a drip-feed, but what seems to have prompted her grand explosion to DH is that since she has been ill this week I've been trying to make sure she eats. She ended up in hospital last weekend with an untreated UTI that suddenly flared up. I did some shopping for her on Monday, trying to buy things she might find palatable. I cooked her some meals I knew she would like on Tuesday. I even got her some Complan to have if she was not up to a proper meal.

She is underweight according to her BMI. When she is well she says that she is just into the 'heathy' range, but only because she has lost 1.5 inches of height due to osteoporosis. She has been ill for a few weeks before ending up in hospital and has already lost 5lb so is clinically underweight.

She doesn't have a diagnosis of eating disorder but I have since I've known her observed disordered eating. DH is also concerned about how frail she currently looks.

She claims I have been bullying her about her eating. All I've done is to bring her the food, make one Complan up for her and said to her "please try and eat, you know it won't help you get well if you don't" and to tell her that two ginger biscuits isn't enough nutrition for dinner.

But that makes me a bully and horribly cold to her.

Yikes OP. I have a mother in law like yours. Basically you can't win, so you need to accept that. You sound like you have made an effort and that's all you can do. She will always make this you against her, or that's how it flows in my relationship with my MIL anyway. Just try and tread forwards in a healthy way for you.

@saraclara

That isn't horrible and egocentric. It is being centred in yourself without the need to talk about other people's lives.

Isn't being centred in yourself pretty much the definition of egocentric?

I don't see it like that I guess. I see egocentrism like a lack of capacity to see that other people will hold a different perspective to you, not as it having anything to do with whether you want to chat to your mother in law about other people and what they are doing.

Sounds like it’s normal for the 2 of them to complain about you to each other.

I think you need to take a mental step back and find a path out of this crazy dynamic for your marriage’s sake. How your DH deals with the next steps will probably show you if he can truly change how he communicates and whether he can respect your boundaries regarding MIL.

Seems you have just been a means to her dgc...
Back away and let dh facilitate a relationship between her and your dc...
And use proper child care in future.

You’re a bully because you’ve tried to tempt her to eat? I feel there isn’t much hope for your relationship with her and given the conversations between your dh and her, I wonder how much hope there is for your relationship with him? Do you want to stay married?

@DancesWithTortoises

OP, you do sound emotionally unavailable. Your last post is quite cold. It's a perfectly normal topic of conversation to talk of other family members and what's happening in their lives. Small talk.

I have no interest .....

That sounds horrible and egocentric.

She is being a listening ear to her son who is unhappy. That's where your problem lies, with him.

Horrible comment.

The OP is perfectly normal in not wanting to the hear information about random people.

I’m reminded of this quote from Eleanor Roosevelt: Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

I agree with @DancesWithTortoises and I think Eleanor Roosevelt is wrong on this. People and how they behave and interact can be just as interesting as ideas or events. The more random the better.

Op, it does sound as if you might be unintentionally making your Mil feel intellectually inferior, with your legal career. She can't find anything to say that might be on your level and is struggling to find a connection. It wouldn't hurt you to take an interest. I'd worry if my husband shared her feelings.

I think she finds you intimidating and tho' it's v kind of you to be shopping and cooking for her it's an added pressure at the moment. Not being able to eat much is one of the symptoms of an ovarian tumour, not to mention the anxiety she must feel about investigations.

No - this is not the time for a confrontation or a withdrawal. Focus on supporting your dh and try to understand how you might come across to other people.

@Thymeout

I agree with *@DancesWithTortoises* and I think Eleanor Roosevelt is wrong on this. People and how they behave and interact can be just as interesting as ideas or events. The more random the better.

Op, it does sound as if you might be unintentionally making your Mil feel intellectually inferior, with your legal career. She can't find anything to say that might be on your level and is struggling to find a connection. It wouldn't hurt you to take an interest. I'd worry if my husband shared her feelings.

I think she finds you intimidating and tho' it's v kind of you to be shopping and cooking for her it's an added pressure at the moment. Not being able to eat much is one of the symptoms of an ovarian tumour, not to mention the anxiety she must feel about investigations.

No - this is not the time for a confrontation or a withdrawal. Focus on supporting your dh and try to understand how you might come across to other people.

Some people and their behaviour can be interesting. But generally not things like random stranger’s holiday plans which the OP has to listen to her MIL waffling on about.

I think this is one of the reasons many women are not encouraged to achieve anything. They are required to spend their time hearing about and being nice about people (often people they don’t know) instead of anything more intellectually stimulating.

Men don’t seem to have to put up with that.

Your opening post makes it seem like you have been struggling with your MIL for a long time and I guess you have mentioned things to your husband? Maybe your MIL has struggled equally with you for an equally long time and has mentioned things to her son. I don't know why that makes one of you worse than another. In fact I don't think that makes either of you bad at all. He seems the most natural person to talk to. Are you saying that she's outgoing and overly shares whereas you are quieter and more reserved so it's a clash of personalities? It sounds like you're both disappointed that you ended up with a such mismatched in-law. Initially, I thought your husband was in the wrong not to sort the matter out earlier but actually I think he was probably in a no-win situation and didn't want to be in the middle of WW3.

You've been very kind looking after your MIL whilst she's been ill and her response was extremely rude and ill-considered. Anyone would be unimpressed with her attitude. However, she has got possible ovarian cancer, the prognosis of which is rarely good so maybe a little slack is called for?

Her son and grandchildren love her so she's always going to be in your life to some degree. I'd wait to find out her diagnosis before making any decisions on how to move on.

What does your dh say about your efforts to get her to eat? Have you said I was trying to be kind and make it easier for her to eat something as that will help her recover, but obviously everything I do is wrong so you will have to be the one to cook and shop and suggest she eats. I can’t make that effort for her to tell everyone I'm bullying her.

I think the dh part is what you need to focus on though, not mil for now.

Put your relationship with your MIL on the back burner. If you don’t get your relationship with your DH sorted out, it will be irrelevant any way.

Organise at least a couple of sessions of marriage counselling so that you cann5alk about this and about how you expect to communicate with each other in the future.

You’ve been very kind to your MIL regarding meals and if she has accused you of bulling, it seems like you just can’t win at the moment. I’d back off on food since that is what she Isco planning about but take the kids to see her and do things like hang out the laundry. She can’t complain about that (I hope) but it also doesn’t involve much emotional engagement from you.

But put your relationship with DH first. Otherwise you won’t need a relationship with her.

She sounds ill and upset. Your very well intentioned feeding isn’t helping the way it could have so back off. I would have tried like you by the way so that’s not meant as a criticism. Apologise for any behaviour which left her feeling bullied. And be kind. She sounds rather inadequate in some ways but loving towards your children and as you have recognised, helpful with regards to childcare.

Now get talking with your dh. This is your primary relationship by a long way and needs fixing. He’s talking to the wrong person for whatever reason. Have you considered couples counselling? It may speed up ironing out these bumps which seem to be growing in your marriage.

You sound like me (lawyer, professionally restrained) and your MIL sounds like my MIL. She is a kind, really very nice woman but witters for Britain in a constant anxiety induced stream of gossip, travel tips and judgement about people they met on a caravanning holiday in '02 and how much vodka some random old work buddy's wife managed to put away before the karaoke. She is a squeezer and either always has hands on me, or plies me with a stream of compliments about what a 'good little mum' I am to her grandchildren.

This good little mum earns twice what her son does, is professionally eminent, writes books, did up a derelict listed house in a year and runs a large household and childcare singlehandedly.

I pride myself on getting on with people in general but I find it paralyzing. It's just awful and life-swallowing, and I can't fake the social interest I would with others because it's never enough. It falls into the bottomless pit of her neediness. Nothing you or I can do can touch the edges.

Where I differ from you is that my MIL tried to get my husband to leave me before we married, for the same charge sheet against you. Too cold, too self-determined, too unsupportive. He got all tied up in himself about it and when it finally came tumbling out the line was drawn then and there. You do not take your shit out of the relationship. You don't undermine your marriage and OH's lifelong relationship with her children's grandparent for the sake of a bit of short-term bad faith whinging to someone you know isn't going to call you out. Some MILs are emotional vampires, you do not let them over the doorstep of your marriage, and that means rules and self-restraint.

As others have said, you need to draw the line with your DH. Focus on the grandchild thing - keeping that relationship healthy is so important for your little darlings, he needs to support your relationship with his mum and that means talking to you about any issues first and secondly to a reliable mate down the pub who will tell him to get a grip. Tell him you are worried about her feeling obligated to help with childcare when she looks so tired and still ill. Guilt the hell out of him about what he is missing and let the word spread about what a saint you are, then use your smarts and logic to gently but inexorably get her out of your marriage and back in her box.

And switch to always meeting grannie out of the house. It's easier not to die of boredom that way.

Love this.

"I’m reminded of this quote from Eleanor Roosevelt: Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

Sorry - I meant I love this quote. New here and still expecting replies to thread.

I’d be willing to bet your DH doesn’t have to listen to what the neighbour’s adult children did on holiday during his working day

I agree that he’s the problem here. But your MIL sounds very hard work and with capacity to be really unpleasant, especially re the eating thing. Tbh, I’d take advantage of the ‘cold’ reputation and just disengage with his family altogether rather than trying to get your story across first or anything. As someone just said, your efforts won’t ever be enough, so why expend the energy?

@JennyForeigner

"I’m reminded of this quote from Eleanor Roosevelt: Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

Sorry - I meant I love this quote. New here and still expecting replies to thread.

Yeah, I don't know about this. I'm willing to bet the high-minded Mrs Roosevelt talked about the women Mr Roosevelt had affairs with.

Eleanor Roosevelt was clearly an arrogant cow.

I'm an introvert who talks little about people (except here on MN, which is, ironically what the ER quoters are doing alongside me) but I don't disrespect those who can and do.

@Thistledew

What a hurtful place you are currently in, OP.

Surely the mature thing for your husband to do is TALK to you about things he's unsure about in your relationship? After all aren't you, as his wife and children's mother - his supposedly chosen life partner - the person to talk about regarding any issues there may be in your life together her? Not his mother who will always be on his side anyway?

(eg that he gets stressed and anxious that the DC are generally ready for school/nursery dead on time to leave the house as he worries about being late- yet he never said to me "can we be ready 10 mins earlier so I don't feel stressed?")

What is he DOING to ensure this happens? Yes he could talk to you about it - why isn't he? - but could he not actually contribute to making this, or whatever he's silently fretting about, actually happen rather than become internally stressed or critical about the current situation?

I hope you do manage to get help, OP. Either you and your husband opening up and honestly talking together or with a professional counsellor in a neutral space.

I really wouldn't want to spend the next decades in a relationship like this. 🌹

I'm just curious. There are so many threads on here where MNers have really close relationships with their mothers. Does no one here ever share their relationship concerns with their mother?

I never have, but it's because I have a really poor relationship with her. But I'm sure that friends have, if I'm recalling past conversations correctly.

Is it one of those things that if a partner does it, it's disloyal, but if we do it, it's 'needing a shoulder to cry on'?

I think the point is that the OPs DH hasn’t taken it on board that one should be very careful when involving any relative in one’s marriage issues.

That relative is part of the wider family, and is very rarely able to act as an objective observer who can give impartial advice.

I’m sure many people might say to their mum or dad “Oh, DH is always losing things...” but it seems that the OPs DH is involving his mum on a far deeper level with regards to his marital issues.

That kind of child/parent relationship would be fine as a child or young adult, but as a parent with a life partner the dynamics have changed, and the OPs DH doesn’t seem to get that.