Starting relationships with suspect men

[ValerieCupcake]

Been reading about the chap that killed his girlfriend, her children and their friend. Been in a relationship 6 months and he was an arsonist, anyone can find it in the news. I hope this doesn't come across as "Victim Blaming" because it is not meant like that. Rather, to ask why when we have Clare's Law now would women not check out someone before introducing them to their kids? He must have given something away about his behaviour. He set a BMW on fire in May 2020 see below.

PARK SOUTH: Damien Bendall, 31, of Cranmore Avenue, admitted arson. He destroyed a BMW worth £1,350 in May last year. The magistrates sent his case to Swindon Crown Court for sentence.

This is one of the worst things I have seen in the news for a long time.

I've looked at the story and the guy looks totally unhinged just from his mugshot. He got 3 years in 2015 for attempted armed robbery. Last year he torched a car. No doubt that is far from the end of the story. He looks what my grandad would call a "wrong 'un".

When my brother got divorced his ex-wife met a man within four weeks of them splitting up. They had a 5 year old son. My brother got a private detective to check up on him (This was before Claire's Law) because he wanted to know who his son was around. They found nothing dodgy about the guy except he'd had three wives before and had abandoned his last wife with two children he never saw or supported. He turned out to be harmless, as it happened.

Why was this family and the little girl's friend not protected? Why do so many men feel they are entitled to murder women and children and why do they see it as the only option? I posted only last week on the thread from MummyKittyC (now disappeared) about an abusive ex, as my friend's children were murdered by her ex-husband during an access visit.

Love is blind. If someone is into you and you them, you tend to see the best in them and ignore the worst.

@altmember

Love is blind. If someone is into you and you them, you tend to see the best in them and ignore the worst.

Love isn’t blind, though. Its vision is hugely to do with your own boundaries. I can assure you that if I’d had a couple of dates with a man and a quick Google revealed a long history of violent offences to his name (because this man’s conviction history is easily Googled) then it would be a block and delete exercise immediately. I wouldn’t be hanging around to “give him a chance” or see if he’d changed his ways, and I certainly wouldn’t be introducing him to my young children.

As others have said, this pervasive socialisation of women to #BeKind when it comes to excusing men’s behaviour combined with a culture which seems to teach some women to define themselves by whether they can keep a man or not, really needs addressing.

Alicenwonderland - agree with you completely. It's not even like police just hand out information about someone either - you have to believe you're at risk. Claire's Law is bullshit I think.

It's so hard to get away from these men as well. The last person I dated I saw was going to be abusive after a month - he would spy on me walking my dog and when he started joking that he was going to hit me and set fire to my hair I realised there was something deeply wrong with him. It took me 2 months to break up with him in a way that he understood it was over. Every time I tried he was there on my doorstep telling me he was crazy about me or that it was me that was the issue. I can't imagine what it must be like to have to deal with this every single day.

Claire's law only works well, if someone is convicted. But they have to have a first time. You might be their first time. It's really important for girls and boys to be taught boundaries and red flags etc. That's not just school, that comes from parents too.

@B1rdflyinghigh. That’s an important point. Without trying to victim shame at all and it’s a truly awful case— can I plead that people at least google potential partners, certainly when kids are involved. In some cases there will be nothing , in other cases there will be things that may help protect you from utter arseholes like this man.

I think because for me anyway-

If he seemed totally normal and nice then doing that would be massively disproportionate and anyway why would I?

If I felt he might be iffy in some way I wouldn't be going out with him.

I’ve googled my ex and there is absolutely nothing online about him despite the fact I found out he had been to prison for DV. There is nothing when I google his name so that doesn’t always work either (I know it would have in this case) but I’m just saying it isn’t something that will work with every guy, it might come back with nothing, And believe me I’ve searched, and it’s true about Claire’s law they won’t just tell anyone it’s up to the police to decide and I’m sure it only shows DV not other crimes (I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure it’s just DV)

His mug shot is very creepy, the fact that he is smiling...

Also what he did is statistically vanishingly rare.

The vast majority of men are fine.

I really don't like the idea that every woman should take this precaution. On top of all the other things we're supposed to do.

I also think that women having a general suspicion of any and all men because of a vanishingly rare extreme crime. Is at all proportionate.

I mean yes follow your instincts etc etc the stuff we do anyway. But checking with the police? Every woman in the country? Just because better safe than sorry?

I think it's a terrible way to expect women to think and live really.

Also I mean. Why only if you have kids?

What about the mother? Women with no children? Women whose children have left home? Young women/ teen girls who don't have children?

If it's worth everyone who has kids doing why not for themselves?

If you're not seeing any red flags or odd behaviour then most people would be unlikely to contact the police under Claires Law imo.
A friend of mine had a relationship for a few years. Didn't live together but saw each other most weekends. Her kids were teens.
He moved a bit further away which made the relationship untenable for her but they kept in touch. Until a period of several weeks when she couldn't reach him and she became concerned. She googled him thinking she may find an obituary (he wasn't in the best health and slightly older).
What she found was newspaper headlines about his arrest and RETURN to prison became he had REOFFENDED.... he was a nonce ffs. She was devastated, understandably.
She then had to speak to the police etc. Turns out he'd been moving around and not advising them of his whereabouts as per the sex offenders register 😱
She never once thought or suspected this. Her kids were fine thank fuck. Too old for his tastes..... 🤢

From looking at the guy I can't believe there were no red flags.

I looked into doing a Claire's law search on my current partner. I didn't go through with it because of the amount of information the police were requesting me to provide about myself.
Why do they need info such as where I have lived for the last five years, really put me off.

So two women. Roughly the same background. Both decent, intelligent women. I don’t think it’s victim-blaming to ask why my first friend could so easily read the situation and my second friend couldn’t

It all depends on previous experiences with men and upbringing/childhood experiences imo.

Yes my sister had to give a hell of a lot of information to them including showing her passport, her sons information, previous relationship history etc it was very intense so I can see why women find it too much, I wanted to do it on my ex just because his story doesn’t add up (we have children before anyone wonders why I’m concerned about an ex) but I don’t want to trigger a social services referral. Like I said this information needs to be more readily available if someone has committed a serious crime!

@ComtesseDeSpair and boundaries are shaped by what people experience growing up, and see as normal. A lot of people grow up in homes with abusive parents, or see violence habitually in their everyday lives. Their understanding of what a good partner looks like is inevitably going to be different to someone who has grown up seeing good relationships and healthy behaviours.

I think a lot of people really don't understand the levels of abuse many children are exposed to, and how this impacts their later understanding of what good relationships are.

@MissTrip82

It’s a great question. Why does a man start fires? Why does he abuse the people who trust him? Why does he start relationships when he knows how damaged and dangerous he is? Why does he ever do anything that might mean a future partner has to actually check his record with the police?

Oh that’s not what you were asking? My mistake.

Because he's a psychopath?

You won't change that, i think in Scandinavia they've tried to identify personality disorders from a young age and treat them, with what success I don't know.

People do have to be cautious, careful, and skeptical when getting into relationships; women more than anyone because were more vulnerable. And women with children more than any other- because of the vulnerability of the children.

I do think women feel under the most incredible pressure to be in a relationship, with their self worth and feeling of being normal based on it.
They can ignore and minimise a lot to be in one.

Sometimes I think when they've had a significant relationship fail wg that with their children's father; they feel under intense pressure to "prove" it isnt their fault, and someone else wants them etc by havjng a successful relationship with another partner. "Successful" being perhaps appearance only of course.

One of my oldest & dearest friends fell head over heels for a chap she met through a hobby. They were both married - in friend's case happily enough, dc, house, nice life, although the spark had definitely died. Friend had an affair with the OM, confessed to her dh & left him. Not great, fine, but shit happens.

Then ensued three years of absolute craziness.

OM was going to leave his wife. Definitely. Maybe next month. Maybe when he'd seen his eldest off to Uni. Maybe once he'd finished building their house. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

OM's wife found out & there ensued an understandable shitstorm. She threw him out, she took him back (& he went back). She threw him out again & he beat her up . She called the police & had him arrested after he rocked up pissed at 2am insisting he loved only her & my friend was a 'whore' - friend was treated to the unfolding drama on speaker phone.

Friend collected him from the police station next day & took him in. He was very very sorry, apparently, that he'd called her a whore whilst begging his wife to take him back whilst also smashing most of his wife's windows...

Friend is still with him. He cheats on her fairly openly, is verbally abusive on a regular basis & her teenagers left years ago to live with their dad. He coerced her into getting pregnant a few years back, although she was sure she didn't want another child, then bullied her into an abortion because he changed his mind. He drinks a lot & is a vile drunk. But he's quite good at weeping & telling her he couldn't live without her, whenever she gets restive & thinks about leaving.

I love my friend, even though her choices wouldn't be mine. She's a highly intelligent, funny, kind woman in a professional role where she advises other people.

We have agreed to differ on her choice of partner. I won't be around him (he squared up to me once in the midst of all the madness, because he knew I'd told friend to run for the fucking hills...).

It's really not as easy as 'well you check up, you discover he's a wrong'un & you chuck him back in the sea' for many women. Sadly.

Tbh cases like this make me think i would, if separated, never have a new partner in in home at the same time as my child. The relationship.wpuld remain separate until they were grown up and moved out. Some people would think that totally unrealistic of course.

On the subject of scepticism, is it clear whether this lady who's been murdered knew anything about his record for arson and attempred armed robbery?

The arson (on an object) is indicative of instability, but pulling a knife on someone .. you'd think would get alarm bells off for anyone.

Perhaps not as he seems to have moved to get away from it, and it wouldn't have been in local papers in that area. Not everyone would Google someone (and some people change their name, though in this case he doesn't appear to have).

She's a highly intelligent, funny, kind woman

But there's something amiss with her, right?

Some kind of self delusion or lack of self esteem or ...?

I mean, she's even letting him fk up her relationship with her children. And she's already broken up their family as they knew it for him.

he squared up to me once

And shes stayed with him in spite of him being physically aggressive towards a woman, a woman who's her good friend.

Not actually "kind", is it.

That's on the of him beating his ex up, of course.

Can a woman who stays with and is intimate with a man who batters and squates up to women, usually significantly physically weaker than himself; really be described as kind.

She's, by implicatoon, approving & dismissing his violence against women; she may be kind in some ways nut she's certainly not in others.

I know someone who started a relationship and had their own kids with someone who was responsible for the manslaughter of their own step child. Worst thing was she was a paediatric nurse