Husband has walked out ....

[lemonsandpumpkins]

I have name changed …. Well, think I have anyway, if I’ve done it properly. Sorry if this is a bit long, trying not to drip feed.

My husband has left and it’s just hitting home, there’s fault on both sides but at the moment I just feel lost.

We’ve been married for 5 years, together for 6. I have 3 DC from my first marriage (relatively amicable divorce, both now remarried) and we’ve gone on to have 2 further DC, there’s a 10 year gap between the 2 sets of children.
My DH has a history of depression and anxiety and at times it has been all consuming, but he has been proactive in seeking help, will go to the gp and takes meds. However, when I was pregnant with our first DC together he had a breakdown and as a result he was let go from work on the grounds of ill health. His employers really did try to facilitate his return but it was unmanageable, in the end nothing is worth risking your health over and work really was exacerbating his mental health issues.

He switched meds, attended psychiatry appointments and worked at getting better. He found creative work he could do from home and seemed in a better place altogether. So much so we had a second DC together.

We’ve always had arguments like any couple, usually quite mundane in nature, but every few months or so an argument will escalate and follow the same pattern. He has quite a temper, he’ll flare up, shout, rant, get really animated and will cumulate in him leaving to go to his parents house. This really can be over the most trivial of things, either one of us could be at fault (although he never thinks he’s in the wrong) but it plays out the same. He goes to his parents, cools off, we talk it through and he comes home. I’m open with the older children about their step dads mental health and why he needs to take time out post argument.

He can get quite fixated on things and struggles to let things go, I’m the opposite and am too laid back on occasion. He is struggling with the older DC, his step-children, the older girls in particular DD16 and DD14. He believes I’m not strict enough with them and let them get away with too much. To a degree he’s probably right but I think they’re good kids overall, they’ll help me out, do chores, love their little siblings and interact with them all the time. Sort themselves out for school, never miss a day or go in late and generally do as they’re told …. except when it comes to going to bed and getting out of bed when it’s not a school day. Then they will try and stay in bed until the afternoon.

So our little boy was playing up and DH rightly told him off, but DH then followed that up with a comment about how he shouldn’t tell off DS as the older kids “do what they want anyway” I retaliated to say that’s unfair and out of nowhere and next thing you know DH says he’s leaving as he’s had enough.

That was 4 days ago and he’s messaged tonight to say he’s done, he can’t handle my lack of parenting of the older children, I constantly belittle him and treat him as the least important member of the family. I’ve never supported him enough with his mental health and he can’t be in this relationship anymore.

I can’t argue because if that’s how he feels then that is how he feels but it all seems so unfair. I’ve always supported to the best of my ability, even if inside I was shitting myself as to how we’d cope, I kept it together and didn’t let it show. I work full time to support the family, he’s done some questionable things in the past but again I’ve always tried to be fair, talk things through and now I feel completely dumped …… sorry if this is a bit rambley but I feel so alone

Sounds to me like it’s the best thing for you all. Take some time, you might find it easier without him.
The girls shouldn’t be being told off by SD if mum is happy with their behaviour.
My DH has anxiety, and I know how hard it is for him living with fall outs and general angst in the house.

He's not the least important person in the household, it sounds like the op is. She's supporting all her children and her dh. Who's supporting her?

Of course your dc will gravitate towards you, they are your dc and they are still children. An adult would realise that and make allowances for it. Your dc sound like typical teenagers, and good ones at that.

There does come a point where you have to look after your own mental health, as well as those of your family.

@EL8888

I am afraid it does all sound like it is for the best. His expectations of teenagers sounds pretty unrealistic to me. It does sound like it is all about him, him continuing to message you is strange as he’s already stated what he allegedly wants to do

He is like a dog with a bone on that front. He gets into arguments on social media on all sorts of topics/current affairs, giving lengthy, verbose responses and will carry on and on.

It's not that he is wrong in the arguments but he becomes overly invested.

So the continued messaging is pretty typical.

He sounds exactly like my ex except he didn’t acknowledge he was depressed. I think he will have similar issues with his own dc when they are teens as we had same over reaction to normal teen behaviour and there was no step-dc situation. He would get ridiculously annoyed if they didn’t do exactly as he wanted. Kids were also closer to me because he was so self absorbed and volatile. They have never chosen to stay with him much since we split and while upset at the time they appreciate the house is now a happier environment to grow up in. I think they would now say they are glad he doesn’t live here as he wasn’t cut out for the demands of parenting. He also made me feel I was to blame or not supporting him but there is a point where you have to stand up for your dc in the face of ridiculous parenting expectations. At time I would have said I was equally to blame in arguments but now I realise much of the drama was from him and me reacting to that / defending myself as we have a very calm house now. His mental health is still up and down but he does make an effort when he does see the dc. The fact he doesn’t intend to see your dc would be a dealbreaker for me how could you have him back knowing he would cut them out of his life so easily.

Your DH sounds like my late H, who (amongst many other things) also had depression. Also teenage daughters. He did nothing at all to step into their worlds, engage with them, listen to them - and expected them to be the same with him as they were with me. What's your husband doing to bond with your DDs? My money is on nothing at all.

Your DDs are normal teens being excellently parented by you. There's nothing more to it than that. If they want to massively lie in on a weekend, why not? Mine do - unless we are going somewhere, in which case they will be up at a suitable time. They don't have to conform to my schedule (I'm old, I can't do late lie-ins at all anymore).

I truly think you would be better off without him. This isn't about his depression, this is about him being an unpleasant individual.

@lemonsandpumpkins

I also left a relationship as I couldn’t cope with the Disney parenting of my OH. The issues were (eventually) more serious than you have described but I was always at the bottom of the pile. It started off small, like he wouldn’t tell his teens to put a biscuit wrapper/empty yoghurt pot in the bin. His daughter would make a cup of tea and dump the teabags in the sink; even though the bin was right next to it and he’d smile indulgently (she was 14). I’d leave a cup in the sink and all hell would break loose. It’s shit being in that position in your own home.

I don't know, that might be how he feels about it. They do have to clean up after themselves and will get called back if they haven't but sometimes that is met with an eye roll. I certainly wouldn't kick off at him about washing up or laundry left on the floor and the like, I'm not a neat freak on any level.

A big part of the problem is the girls will naturally spend time in my company, gravitate to whatever part of the house I'm in, chat and help out with whatever it is I might be doing (putting washing away, bathing the little ones etc.). When I'm at work they stay up in their rooms, they don't seek out DH in the same way at all so he feels unsupported by them, taken for granted?? I'm not sure I'm explaining properly ... he wanted me to address this and put some sort of consequence in place.

Why does he expect to feel supported by two teenagers? Even if he was their father he shouldn't be expecting support from them. He's an adult and they're not his carers. And he wants you to give your DC a consequence because he feels unsupported by them? What was he expecting you to do, force them to spend a certain amount time with him? Force them to check on him at regular intervals? I don't think you're failing to explain, I think the idea's just so bizarre that it will sound unreasonable and ridiculous no mater how you say it.

OP, he has done you a favour. I honestly would have left any man who criticised my DD. Please, for the sake of your DD's - DO NOT HAVE HIM BACK.

You need to show your DD's that they should not have to tolerate any man being nasty to them.

I know you have 2 younger DC with him, but really start putting the children first and let him go. He is adding nothing to your life.

How was it at the beginning of the relationship? In your op you say you married after a year together. Did you older dc develop a decent relationship with him prior to his breakdown?
I can imagine that would have been a frightening time for them as early teens with a mum having a new baby.

How often does he run back to his mum? That can’t be much fun for you.

Your kids sound lovely and normal.
You sound a great parent.
While the need to tell him some home truths is undoubtedly there, if you are able to, treat this as a time not to burn bridges.
The loyalty of your older kids is of course with you but if you can avoid it, don't use them for support or a sounding board.
Tell everyone you are taking some time apart for everyone's sake. I suspect you will find managing easier despite the extra practical responsibilities.
Call him all the names under the sun here or to your friends but not to the older kids.
You have to co parent and them hating him will make that harder in the long run and potentially result in family division.
It's not fair and you shouldn't have to do this, but for a better life long term trying to be as outwardly calm as possible will help everyone move on

Sympathies @lemonsandpumpkins I have lived with a spouse with depression for many years now. Initially they refused to see it was an issue and wouldn’t get help - very difficult times. They are now much better with medication and self care. However it is entirely possible to be depressed and at the same time be a self centred twat and I recognise this in how you describe your husband as mine was too. Your teens sound well adjusted and essentially exhibiting typical teen behaviour re the sleeping late. It is NOT their role to support him what a crazy thing for him to say.
Honestly I’d be happy to call his bluff on this occasion and tell him you are agreeing that it is indeed for the best for all the children that he doesn’t continue to flounce in and out as it suits him. As he is staying with his folks continuing his financial contribution shouldn’t be an issue luckily.

Before his breakdown and the birth of our DC his relationship with the older children was really great. I think he changed most dramatically after the birth of our DS, it changed the dynamic in the household and he struggled to adapt. He first went back to his parents when I was around 5 months pregnant with our first child. The argument was over politics (I'm not remotely political) and he blew up, left and returned the next day. I could handle those sort of ructions because it wasn't particularly personal and I could see he was struggling. However, from that point the girls did start to disengage somewhat. Whether that was a reaction to the disruption they witnessed (I tried to shield them from the arguments or explain afterwards what was happening) or a natural part of adolescence, I suspect a bit of both.
Over the last 4 years the storm outs have happened on several occasions (with a break over the pandemic as his parents were shielding)

The relationship with the older children really took a nosedive at the start of the pandemic. We struggled to get into a decent homeschooling routine, however, I was at home (off work sick with spd then maternity leave) and we did eventually get on track. The school was pleased with the children's level of engagement so I was happy that things had settled. But the damage was done as far as he was concerned, he couldn't move on from any perceived disobedience and still refers back to it.

His big trigger for his mental health is change, whether positive or negative, he really struggles and our life is full of it!

He sounds like a selfish prick.. he really does 🌸

You explain him very well; however, all those things are for him to deal with, not you. You have normal, engaged, well adjusted teens. They do not need to change. He needs to change how he responds to their perfectly normal behaviour. If change is his trigger then he needs to access therapy to develop better coping mechanisms. And you need to stop letting him get away with not addressing his issues - what he's doing isn't good enough.

Change was also one of my late husband's triggers, and he too had the habit of constantly dragging up old issues to use against his DDs. We had all our worst fights when I called him on it, but I wasn't about to let him paint our DDs are 'bad' just because he felt 'disrespected'.

Christ tell him he's right and he needs to stay where he is. That sorting out contact for the kids will happen in due course.

Then batten down the hatches for the anger from you agreeing with him. Usually by saying they'll be going for custody etc.

Your daughters are not designated support humans for him and him and his whinge needs to be booted down the street.

That's the one aspect of treatment he won't entertain, any sort of talking therapy. He says he worked as a counsellor years ago (long before we met) and he "knows all the tricks of the trade". My thoughts on it are that there are no tricks of the trade per se, the aim is to get you communicating and airing how you feel without fear of judgement and repercussions.

He did, reluctantly, attend some marriage counselling with me but that too was a disaster. He marched out mid session, he claimed the counsellor was rubbish and I wasn't recalling specific events truthfully. The reality was that the counsellor wasn't giving him the agreement and justification he wanted, and I recalled things from my point of view.

I think he would benefit from some solo therapy but I don't think it will ever happen.

He wants you to beg him to come home, hence all the texts.

I wouldn't personally, op.

@lemonsandpumpkins

Before his breakdown and the birth of our DC his relationship with the older children was really great. I think he changed most dramatically after the birth of our DS, it changed the dynamic in the household and he struggled to adapt. He first went back to his parents when I was around 5 months pregnant with our first child. The argument was over politics (I'm not remotely political) and he blew up, left and returned the next day. I could handle those sort of ructions because it wasn't particularly personal and I could see he was struggling. However, from that point the girls did start to disengage somewhat. Whether that was a reaction to the disruption they witnessed (I tried to shield them from the arguments or explain afterwards what was happening) or a natural part of adolescence, I suspect a bit of both. Over the last 4 years the storm outs have happened on several occasions (with a break over the pandemic as his parents were shielding)

The relationship with the older children really took a nosedive at the start of the pandemic. We struggled to get into a decent homeschooling routine, however, I was at home (off work sick with spd then maternity leave) and we did eventually get on track. The school was pleased with the children's level of engagement so I was happy that things had settled. But the damage was done as far as he was concerned, he couldn't move on from any perceived disobedience and still refers back to it.

His big trigger for his mental health is change, whether positive or negative, he really struggles and our life is full of it!

Depression is not an excuse for coercive and controlling behaviour, which is what this is.

Putting you in constant fear that if you say the wrong thing he'll leave you is a horrible thing to do to someone you claim to care about. That is totally different from somebody who knows that from time to time they need respite care so calmly plan and agree that responsibly with their family (which is still possible even in a mental health crisis, which is not what you're describing anyway) - leaving on a whim as a punishment for you disagreeing with him is nothing whatsoever to do with illness management. It is cruel and deliberate punishment to coerce you into obeying him.

You can try and give children excuses about why he's doing that, but that doesn't stop the behaviour destabilising them even if they cannot articulate that to you. It must be so stressful not knowing when he's going to blow up and disappear. Wondering if it's their fault. Wondering why they're not loveable.

I'm not surprised your daughters have protectively distanced themselves from him. His insistence that they should be punished for not having a close relationship with him is horrific. Depression does not in any way explain or excuse that.

Nor is the way he puts you down - puts you all down - and blames you for his behaviour.

There are numerous hallmarks of abuse running through the years of this relationship, including the way you feel so beaten down and responsible for his horrible actions.

He may well have diagnosed mental illnesses but that does not make him any less responsible for his own choices and actions. Perpetrating abuse against one's family is not a symptom of depression or anxiety.

He still has capacity to make all his own decisions, including his decisions to abuse you. You sound like you have lost sight of that in your efforts to be accommodating and considerate - his behaviour is still a choice and ultimately it is not acceptable behaviour.

I am sorry you are hurting but it sounds like it will be much better for the wellbeing of all the children and you that he no longer lives with you.

Thing is, if he refuses to change then you are over. Because you have to choose your DDs over him. Not to mention the fact that you shouldn't have to live with a prima donna who runs home to his mummy every time he feels 'disrespected'.

If he used to be a counsellor he was probably a really shitty one.

@lemonsandpumpkins

That's the one aspect of treatment he won't entertain, any sort of talking therapy. He says he worked as a counsellor years ago (long before we met) and he "knows all the tricks of the trade". My thoughts on it are that there are no tricks of the trade per se, the aim is to get you communicating and airing how you feel without fear of judgement and repercussions.

He did, reluctantly, attend some marriage counselling with me but that too was a disaster. He marched out mid session, he claimed the counsellor was rubbish and I wasn't recalling specific events truthfully. The reality was that the counsellor wasn't giving him the agreement and justification he wanted, and I recalled things from my point of view.

I think he would benefit from some solo therapy but I don't think it will ever happen.

That is all consistent with coercive control (abuse) too.

I would also gently point out that when you say he was proactive about caring for his mental health and seeking treatment, that's just not true.

He went to the GP, got his get-out-of-jail-free-card diagnosis and a prescription, and has done absolutely nothing else to take responsibility for his behaviour or change anything.

Quite the opposite, he has just used it as a stick to beat you with. "I have depression so I can treat you as badly as I like and you have to take it."

You do know that psychiatry appointments are simply medication reviews, right? There is no effort involved from him in those or anything that will change his behaviour. All he seems to have used them for is to give greater weight to his demands for you to bend over backwards to accommodate his every desire and to tolerate and excuse his mistreatment "because I have depression".

My thoughts on it are that there are no tricks of the trade per se, the aim is to get you communicating and airing how you feel without fear of judgement and repercussions.

You are right that therapy is about the therapeutic relationship and the things that allows you to explore. I think the end of your sentence is very telling in what you have chosen to emphasise. It's what's missing from your life with him.

You live in fear with him, don't you? Not that he'll physically hurt you, but that you cannot speak or act freely without fear of judgment or repercussions?

You're all walking on eggshells around him.

I agree he is abusive. It is better for you and your DC to end the marriage. How interesting when his parents were shielding he didn't flounce off to them. Read why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft. Your husband is the perpetrator of your abuse. Narcissists do not like teenagers, but don't toe yourself in knots either looking for explanations as to why he does this. He does it because he can. He will follow the narcissistic cycle of abuse, at the moment it's discard and next it will be hoovering you back in, trying to make you feel responsible for his decisions. Take this opportunity to get rid. He can seek treatment for his depression whilst with his parents. You have yourself and 5 children to look after. Don't let him drain you further

Over the last 4 years the storm outs have happened on several occasions (with a break over the pandemic as his parents were shielding)

How dare he?

Storming out is childish at the best of times, but absolutely disgusting when you are jointly responsible for children. The assumption that you will just pick up the pieces and get on with parenting while he gets to indulge his sense of being wronged at your expense is unforgivable in my opinion.

A parent who is struggling with MH and agrees some time out with the other parent following a discussion and some planning to ensure the other parent is able to manage = ok

A parent who storms out like a teenager = utter twat

He's just plain jealous and a narcissist who requires constant attention on himself in order to feel good. When your daughters 'ignore' him (just being teens in their room not bothered about trying to entertain grumpy stepdad) his hostility towards women re-emerges.
What does he do to foster his relationship with your daughters?
Damn all I'd say. He's not noticing that he's absolutely crap at relating.
I bet he never asks them how did their day go, or remembers that they had something that day and ask them about it. He just scans for positive attention from others then if it's not there he spins that to the Nth degree to make sure he stays in the victim position.
He only relates back and forth to his own feelings but not to the other person.

His only interest in people is the amount of interest they have in him.

I suspect that in his own household as a child, there was competition from his siblings for attention from his own mother and a lack of recognition from his Dad.
Yes he'd benefit from therapy but it sounds like he doesn't really want to look at his own issues.

Why is he texting you at 3am? Don't answer the texts until morning time and put your phone on silent. You've done as much supporting as you can. You must be exhausted from this. Give yourself a couple of days and you might see a change in how you are seeing this.
Why don't you go to counselling and get support for yourself, so that you have someone objective in your corner.

I'm so sorry for you OP. I think he sounds quite poorly and that's a huge extra ball to juggle and you've got quite the juggling act already with all your lovely dc's & job. Even if you try to fix this by bending over backwards with him. Where does that leave you? You are entitled to have support as well. Relationships are not one way streets.

Doesn't sound like he cares about the mental health of those around him. Your girls will now have to wrestle with feeling they have caused the breakdown of their mother's relationship. And for what? Getting up late. Bloody hell. He doesn't know how lucky he has it. Your girls sound adorable.

He must have been a perfect teen to allow this to be a deal breaker.