My kids are destroyers and I can't cope anymore

[fedupwiththeguy]

My kids break and destroy everything. That's it. I can't deal with the mess and destruction of everyday. There is a huge hole in the bathroom where the toilet paper holder. They torn it off and then kept digging with their finger every time they go potty. They take my iPad and phone when I am sleeping, and they have broken two chargers in a week. They take and leave their bed cushion to the backyard and leave them there in the rain. They use about 4 outfits a day, and I need to wash their running shoes daily. They shot my kitchen lamp and broke the glass. My DD spills drinks in the sofa more than once a week (no, they are not allowed to eat or drink outside of the kitchen/dining). My DS smelled so bad... cleaned it top to bottom and the smell didn't go. Found a melted ice cream under the mattress. They dug a hole in the backyard about half a meter deep and surrounded it with bricks that they found under the deck. The door knobs, they have broken the front door and the backyard door knobs in the last year. Currently, we are sleeping with the backyard unlocked as I can't afford a new one. I am a single mom with a litigious ex that has led me into huge debt to pay for lawyers. I ended up self-representing at a month long trial because I could not pay for a lawyer. My ex on the other hand is wealthy and pushed for private school, at the same time that refuses to pay for our DS therapy. DS is ADHD and needs weekly therapy. It is court ordered and 30km away from me. I don't drive, but I need to take DS every week, including during ex's time, because ex ... well, power trips. I work full time, a good job, but can't handle everything. Even when I make 6 figures, I could not afford summer camp for the kids. Ex has not paid child support in over two years. I do 15 loads of laundry a week and can't catch up, still 5 hampers full of clothes. Kids make a huge mess every bath, the water has gone through the floor and to leak into the main floor ceiling. They drop things on the floor all the time (like coming into the house and dropping my jacket that is hanging in the entryway) and walk over them with muddy shoes.
I just can't go on anymore. They also don't let me sleep. I need to beg them to shut up at night, sometimes going until midnight. I need to be up at 6am, and I used to do the housekeeping when they went to bed, but I can't anymore. I came to the kitchen for water last night to find the backyard door completely open. I got the scare of my life, and thanks god we didn't get racoons inside. It happens that my DD had come dowsntairs to eat ice cream.

I am in a loop of cleaning over and over the same things that won't last a day. And I need to keep a full time job. My GP says that I don't need medication help, that I can do with meditation. She also refused to send my to the psychiatrist or psychologist. I am beyond what I can tolerate in terms of stress.

You can't work for an hour at a time without supervising an 8 and 6 year old, esp with ADHD, and then describe them as "destroyers" - it sounds as if most of this is happening because of play/sensory seeking rather than out and out just being horrid on purpose.

I think the therapist is entirely right that you need to be teaching them, and giving them positive reinforcement, rather than focusing on random punishment. But you can't teach or guide children who lack impulse control and can't foresee consequences if you're not supervising them - I'm really sorry, I know it's really difficult to juggle, but that is a bit neglectful.

Aside from all the boundaries/discipline/parenting elements to this that many others have picked up on, if I tried to work whilst looking after children that age at the same time I would imagine my children would wreck the house as well.

Why are you trying to work without having proper childcare in place?

Parenting classes, you need to do something. It’ll be exhausting but less exhausting than what you’re dealing with now. I did it, triple p for me but loads out there. A chat isn’t working is it?
Lock iPads away
Water only to drink
No bedding outside
take away guns, balls anything that can break stuff, implement a routine be consistent and fair and reward GOOD behaviour always even if it’s a tiny tiny thing. Have nice rewards for consistently good attitudes and behaviour as a family kids like to be included and it doesn’t need to cost money or even much money / single parent of 4 so you do learn things they love to do which don’t cost much as x4 everything is £££ or $$$ in your case. You do need eyes in the back of your head though and to be present with them, otherwise you may as well go on as you are. I avoid fizzy juice/soda sweets/candies etc with my kids neither reward as consequences for youngest are terrible he just reacts terribly with the sugar or additives even some cheeses I avoid. He is add/asd and x 4 surge them all I’m burned out and everyone wonders why I’m quite crabbit at times. Get help if you can even someone to talk to
Take care op

Sounds like attention-seeking behaviour, you describe a lot of destruction of the kind that a present parent would of intervened with before the destruction got that far. That says to me that you are trying to work and look after children at the same time, this is not sustainable over a long time period. If you didn't work from home, you would need childcare when not there - wrap around before and after school clubs. This is what you need now.
If you work FT, and earn a decent wage, I fail to see how you cannot afford childcare - you may well be getting too sucked into court stuff and litigation by feeling that you have to fight back. Narcissists crave attention, so I would think, the best and cheapest option, is to ignore a lot of what your ex says and does, let him pay for his lawyers, but don't get too sucked into overspending on solicitor action in retaliation.
Looks like you have not worked out the divorce financials yet as you describe your lifestyles as very unequal - are the finances settled?
Not sure how it works in Canada, there should be a process you can follow to recover maintenance, however, on the plus side, it would be hard for him to defend his petition in court for custody whilst having to admit lack of maintenance for 2 years.
Options - childcare, or move near family if they can help. Treat working from home the same as working out of home, don't try to do both.
Is downsizing your house possible to release some funds?

Move all phones , I pads ect out of reach when sleeping.
You need firmer boundaries for bad behaviour.

...you may well be getting too sucked into court stuff and litigation by feeling that you have to fight back. Narcissists crave attention, so I would think, the best and cheapest option, is to ignore a lot of what your ex says and does, let him pay for his lawyers, but don't get too sucked into overspending on solicitor action in retaliation

@Opentooffers
Do you realise that once a motion is filed, the respondent has to file a response? The alternative to filing a response (and she doesn't have a lawyer, she has to compose and serve and file every response herself) is to have a judgement in default entered against her.
The OP doesn't have any choice in this.

I spent nine years of my life defending myself against motions for contempt of court filed by my exH (a lawyer), plus one order of protection. I had absolutely no choice but to respond thoroughly, complete all the necessary forms associated with filing responses to motions, wheedle time off work to attend court hearings, go to the courthouse to file the correct number of copies of all my responses against his completely baseless accusations.

Maintenance/custody-visitation are not quid pro quos. This is not a pay to see situation.

The OP may well be prevented from moving out of her province or even out of her county by the terms of the divorce settlement. If this is the case, her exH will also be bound.

This is usual in the US and Canada where moving to another state means moving to another jurisdiction, and potentially thousands of miles from the other parent. If she were to consider this, and if her family were on another coast or even a day's drive away, she would have to petition the court to allow it, and would most likely have to prove the move wouldn't result in alienation of affection of the other parent, and wasn't motivated by the desire to drive a wedge between the children and the other parent.

I could not cope with any of that - you have my sympathies. Sounds like you should definitely not have sole custody purely on basis you need a break. Better still pass them onto your husband and have them at weekends only!

I am assuming you are not in UK. Here we have an organisation called Home Start which has volunteers who go into families to help in these sort of situations. Anything similar near you?

Thank you to all the supportive comments and ideas.

@TheChip Make more comments when you see positive, so that by the end of the day they have received more responses/reactions to positive behaviour rather than the negative. I do positive reinforcement, that's what I was thinking when I said bad behaviour gets a chat. We do have consequences, but not punishment.

For instance, they splash out of the bathtub, they need to dry the floor, but they don't get grounded for that. Yesterday, they moved some bricks into our backyard again. They had to put them back. So there is consequences. And there is also the "incentive" approach. "There is one hour left for bed. The faster you brush your teeth, the more time we have to play a game." But I don't do time outs. I only remove toys if they are used as weapons, or at the end of the day if they don't tidy them up.

@Spanglemum DS is on Biphentin, plus therapy.

@PwySyddYma that sounds like something that I would like to try. Worst case would be having less to clean/tidy.

@Marcipex I don't think it is deliberate. They are just careless. ADHD is a very important factor I believe. My son is in a special school. All students in his class have similar diagnoses and similar behaviours.

@fedupwiththeguy ‘But he knew well that it was wrong as he was hearing me telling his sister...‘

You said yourself that he did understand lifting your skirt was wrong but he did it anyway.
So it was deliberate, not carelessness. Therefore of course he deserves a sanction. It’s not ‘punitive’, it’s to help him learn/remember how to behave.

@Caramellatteplease I am printing your post and sticking it to my wall. You hit so many important points. As much as we always talk about the sensory overload at school, I have never taken it into account at home. I can see that you are knowledgeable about the struggles of ADHD, all your recommendations are on point and very insightful.

I think that the behaviour is exacerbated by me working from home, and not being able to afford summer camp. There is a lot of unstructured play asI don't want to have them watching TV all day (that is the easy way to control them). They have better days, it just wears down so much, that when they go to their dad's, I go into cleaning marathon, that lasts about 1h after they are back. It is exhausting. I have not invited people inside my home in over 2 years due to the embarrassment of how it is.

@Lovinglifeand we do have house rules. We also have a visual schedule of the tasks they need to complete (brush teeth, set up the table, tidy up the room) with points assigned to each task. We do a points ceremony at the end of the day, were I give them their points. I always give them extra points if they did something remarkable, such as being kind to someone, etc. They can exchange the points for privileges (each privilege is clearly defined as well, and they can choose something else they want and I will let them know how many points they need). I use poker chips for this, so the points are physical and they get excited about warning them.

I believe one of the biggest challenges is having two different houses. While I only allow them to watch TV on weekends, they watch TV at their dad's every evening. I have talked with my next about setting consistent rules, but we can't agree on screentime, and many other things. That's why the psychologist recommended the parenting coaching. To be honest, I don't think it will work, because next is not interested in coparenting or agreeing with me. I am also sure that he will lie about implementing the rules.

Despite the comments, I consider myself a strict parent, letting them explore, but not accepting bad behaviours.

@Lovinglifeand I learnt that there are two ways for your children to obey: out of respect or out of fear. My daughter is specially sensitive if I raise my voice, she cries, so I have a reminder right there not to do it, although sometimes I do when I am stressed.

I have always told him that my job is to keep them safe and I can't do it if they don't listen. I have also had conversations about trust, specially with DS8, concerning lying. He snitched on his sister taking my iPhone today, because "he didn't want to lose my trust because of her". That doesn't mean that he never lies, but we are getting somewhere with building and maintaining trust I believe. I am also careful not to ground them when they tell the truth, as I want to be encouraging of that, and everybody will at least think of lying to get out of trouble. So I remark that telling the truth is more important.

Regarding diet... they ALWAYS come back with a bag full of candy from their dad's house. That's another reason to believe that "consistent rules" can't be implemented.

@WatchMyChops I never thought of support groups. I am part of facebook groups, but not anything local. I have engaged in parenting workshops from Public Health and from SickKids that were recommended after we booked intakes for help.

On top of the parenting coach, I have booked a trauma therapist for myself. May help to deal with the stress and the toll that the litigation has taken on me. I believe that I need therapy as much as I need better parenting techniques.

Regarding child support, it costs more to enforce than what I would get. He is self employed, so the "collection agency" won't garnish wages. Although I got costs awarded from trial, it is yet to see if he will pay it. Costs are never full recovery, so there is always a ROI calculation to make.

Things like the medication was brought up during trial. I guess that it helped to prove that he can't be given sole custody. THe judge considered giving me sole custody, but thought that our different POV could be beneficial for the children, and gave us joint.

And regarding the therapist, I am at a loss. Nex told them to direct all invoices to me from now on. When I requested the statement of account so we could reconcile the cost, nex refused consent. I sent our court order (with right of access to information and % each of use needs to pay for therapy). Therapist still asking ex how to invoice!

@mathanxiety Children are too small, but I had the worst experience with GAL. They believed everything ex told them and disbelieved me. Their recommendations were dismissed at trial due to the "shortcomings" of the report. Many "fact findings "were disproved at trial with evidence.

Regarding hiring a babysitter, I know I need to make changes,. However, short term it is not possible. I just finished a trial, and had to go into deep debt to get there. I am living paycheque to paycheque and had my dad paying mortgage and food for four months (he lives abroad and with a salary that can't afford the cost of living in Canada, so bog effort on his part).

The clothes... I want to cry. My DD gets into mud with her shoes, and not only are they disgustingly dirty, they stink, so I have no choice but to wash the shoes.

@SarahDarah ADHD is special needs and we separated when they were 26 months and not born, 6+ years ago, so not reacting to divorce. We have joint custody, so I don't know why you are saying that (and for clarification, the one looking for sole is my nex).

I appreciate all advice: supportive, helpful and critical. All put together gives me a lot to think.

What I take is that I need to rethink my discipline. I will definitely implement the magnificent advice regarding sensory overload, exercise, positive reinforcement and other techniques given here that work very well for children with ADHD. I am working on getting help, both practical and psychological. Money right now is an issue though. If nex pays the costs order on time, it would definitely change things, but I don't have faith.

@pastabest I work because nobody subsidizes my living. I don't have childcare because nex dragged me through the courts for 3 years and I had to spend $100k only in the last 6 months to make it to trial, while being a single income household.

To clarify: I had to empty my RRSP, max my credit card, and get a line of credit to cover the $100k, so I don't have any money in the bank. It was not always like this, I earn a fair salary and I am frugal. But trial was a struggle. I could have paid off my house with what I have spent in family court. And with court, I have no control over my finances. Judge ordered private school. Ordered therapist and parenting coach. Ordered arbitrator that we need to meet a minimum of once a year (and it will be way more than that, because we have control over "when we don't agree and need something resolved"). I am broke, and it is not my fault. I work hard, earn well, and I live modestly.

To be honest, I don't think it will work, because next is not interested in coparenting or agreeing with me. I am also sure that he will lie about implementing the rules.

No, he is not interested in co-parenting, He only wants to make your life difficult, and this is why you need a guardian ad litem.

On top of the parenting coach, I have booked a trauma therapist for myself. May help to deal with the stress and the toll that the litigation has taken on me. I believe that I need therapy as much as I need better parenting techniques.

Yes, I know from sad experience that you will need this. You probably have some degree of ptsd.

Regarding child support, it costs more to enforce than what I would get. He is self employed, so the "collection agency" won't garnish wages. Although I got costs awarded from trial, it is yet to see if he will pay it. Costs are never full recovery, so there is always a ROI calculation to make...

...And regarding the therapist, I am at a loss. Nex told them to direct all invoices to me from now on. When I requested the statement of account so we could reconcile the cost, nex refused consent. I sent our court order (with right of access to information and % each of use needs to pay for therapy). Therapist still asking ex how to invoice!

You should consider filing a motion of contempt against your H.
I believe the form for the motion is 'motion to show cause' (i.e. why he should not be held in contempt). If certain payments have been court ordered he is obliged to pay on pain of being held in contempt.
He is not allowed to play hard to get with the therapist either.
Does your family court system have any pro bono advice desk where you can go for informal advice?

Does your local bar association maintain a list of pro bono lawyers?
Ditto local law schools? They sometimes have legal aid clinics.
I realise you may not qualify financially for these avenues, and also that not many normal legal aid outlets handle post divorce matters.

Is there an abused women's organisation that could point you in the direction of a lawyer who handles post divorce litigation?

A women's bar association?

Is your H a member of a professional organisation and could you hold non-payment of support against him? When my ex applied to be licensed in another state I was contacted by the state bar association who sent a questionnaire about child support payments.

Do you qualify for any state aid? While waiting for hearings I often saw lawyers representing state department of public aid duking it out with lawyers representing deadbeat fathers. Th estate didn't want to pick up the tab for feeding and clothing their children.

So sorry the GAL was a bust. The one appointed for my children finally stopped the court abuse I had to live with for nine years.

[quote fedupwiththeguy]@pastabest I work because nobody subsidizes my living. I don't have childcare because nex dragged me through the courts for 3 years and I had to spend $100k only in the last 6 months to make it to trial, while being a single income household.[/quote]
The problem isn't that you work it's that you are working without childcare in place and then complaining that your unsupervised children are entertaining themselves in ways that are destructive.

There's a reason why it's not ok to leave children that age unsupervised,

your whole post demonstrates that reason!

hope it helps

You cant control whether a git is a git. A git will always be a git, it's just unfortunate he has to spend time around your kids because hes related to them. While hes in their lives all you can do is try and be the best possible you and mitigate the mess, you cant turn him into a decent parent because he isnt. Believe me it wont be forever, once the temptation to abusing you through the court ends he will start to lose interest. Most likely you will gain more out of court than you ever did in.

Regardless of if you think you are being mean keep your own standards. Bags of sweets get removed as they come through the door "oh isnt that nice a bag of sweets, let's save them for a special occasion". "What dad does is dads business but here it's what I think that counts". Kids do best with consistency between houses, but when that's not possible kids feel far more secure when they know you are definite, firm and fair. However much they kick off at the time it is reassuring.

Conversely make sure you take healthy opportunities to be the fun parent. Your kids need to have opportunities to see you laugh doing something you enjoy, ideally with joint focus so you are all smiling at the same thing. Zoo and theme park memberships kept us all as near to sane as was achievable.

As a side note you might find a regular "staging post" between the two houses helps the transition.

Also the destruction of property is soul destroying for you. But it isnt a reflection of what you deserve. Nor is it really a reflection of your kids. They are just dealing with a ton of shit with a body that doesn't make it easier.

What we get in life doesn't always reflect what we deserve. You need to remember that when another broken whatever hits your self esteem.

Believe me it wont be forever, once the temptation to abusing you through the court ends he will start to lose interest. Most likely you will gain more out of court than you ever did in.

She has twelve more years of court abuse to look forward to, sadly.

Abusers who drag their former spouses to court are very clever stalkers. They are entitled to have their case heard and the former spouse must engage and respond. Everything looks legal and above board - what's more legal than filing motions after all - but the whole process is designed to inflict stress and cause psychological and emotional damage, not to mention financial jeopardy, and there is always the threat of a motion to change the custody/residence arrangements.

I hope the parenting specialist will be able to help. I do wish there was a way to end this court abuse. Try to see if you can get a free consultation with a lawyer. Not sure if this will help? I think the law firm is based in Toronto.

I feel as though by trying to harm you, your ex is also harming the children. Does he even love them enough that for their sake he would stop? I’m hoping he has some ounce of decency in him that he’ll at least think of the children.

I hope you can get some real life help soon

@fedupwiththeguy I hope you’re not in Ontario. I see virtual happening sooner rather than later.

@EarthSight this is not the norm for all of Canada. I’m betting the private school chosen by ex is very child led.

Quite possibly @LovePoppy , and I hope this is isolated.

@EarthSight

Quite possibly *@LovePoppy* , and I hope this is isolated.

It’s not where I am at least